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I was wondering if you can tell the difference when watching half SBS vs full 3d? Anyone with experience watching half sbs and a full 3d bluray on ps3 or something similar?
 

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It depends.


Since full 1080P per eye only works at 24 frames per second,

a 24fps gaussian blur must be applied to motion.

If you find a single frame with little or no motion and view it both ways then you can "probably" tell the difference.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by delt31 /forum/post/19512548


I was wondering if you can tell the difference when watching half SBS vs full 3d? Anyone with experience watching half sbs and a full 3d bluray on ps3 or something similar?

There is no difference if both files have the same size.

Also the only real full HD 3D is generated by Games using nVidia's GPU.

The 3D-Blu-Ray's 2D + Delta format is just a gimmick.

Frame compatible Side By Side will deliver the same quality or even better if compression ratios are the same or the file size are the same.


Mathew Orman

http://www.*******************.com/
 

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Why arn't 3D BR MVD encoded disks that pass the MVC decoding tests supply true 3D when decoded and output using the double buffer 1080p per eye HDMI 1.4a 3d format equal or better then instead of 720p per eye frame sequential/page flipping provided by the Nvidia 3D player?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford /forum/post/19515156


Why arn't 3D BR MVD encoded disks that pass the MVC decoding tests supply true 3D when decoded and output using the double buffer 1080p per eye HDMI 1.4a 3d format instead of 720p per eye frame sequential/page flipping provided by the Nvidia 3D player?

What kind of English is that?


Mathew Orman
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by icester /forum/post/19513985


There is no difference if both files have the same size.

Also the only real full HD 3D is generated by Games using nVidia's GPU.

The 3D-Blu-Ray's 2D + Delta format is just a gimmick.

Frame compatible Side By Side will deliver the same quality or even better if compression ratios are the same or the file size are the same.


Mathew Orman

http://www.*******************.com/

I disagree with EVERY sentence you wrote here.


I have 3 BluRay3D movies, they're all stereo FullHD (or the cinemascope equivalent) I also have an ATI GPU and I play my games in FullHD 3D on my dual projectors


MPEG4 MVC's 2D+Delta is the real deal and is the most efficient stereo video compresison format to date, if you have a good encoder you will get better quality for the file size than anything else for stereo video.


There is a difference between full and half res side by side, and yes of course it is visible, but the obviousness depends on the quality of the down and upscaling performed as well as the video compression format.


Compression ratios can be used to compare image quality between a source and it's compressed file, but not between compressed files of different sources.

Different sources compressed with the same compression ratios will also have different quality thus cannot be used directly to compare

If both full res and half res files have the same file size, they have different picture quality


With modern encoders, the picture quality and compression ratios are not proportional, so unless you are using extremely low bitrates if the two files have the same file size, the full res picture will look better visually than the half res picture.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by icester /forum/post/19515247


What kind of English is that?


Mathew Orman

US Engish by senior citizens not the Kings English as used in England.

But my poor keyboard senior citizen US english is no excuse for your totally ignoring the question I asked.

I have edited by post in hopes that you can understand it better.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford /forum/post/19516820


US Engish by senior citizens not the Kings English as used in England.

But my poor keyboard senior citizen US english is no excuse for your totally ignoring the question I asked.

I have edited by post in hopes that you can understand it better.

My apologies.

Can you break down the question to less complex one.

I have a hard time to provide an answer to such question.


Mathew Orman
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShark /forum/post/19516675


I disagree with EVERY sentence you wrote here.


I have 3 BluRay3D movies, they're all stereo FullHD (or the cinemascope equivalent) I also have an ATI GPU and I play my games in FullHD 3D on my dual projectors


MPEG4 MVC's 2D+Delta is the real deal and is the most efficient stereo video compresison format to date, if you have a good encoder you will get better quality for the file size than anything else for stereo video.


There is a difference between full and half res side by side, and yes of course it is visible, but the obviousness depends on the quality of the down and upscaling performed as well as the video compression format.


Compression ratios can be used to compare image quality between a source and it's compressed file, but not between compressed files of different sources.

Different sources compressed with the same compression ratios will also have different quality thus cannot be used directly to compare

If both full res and half res files have the same file size, they have different picture quality


With modern encoders, the picture quality and compression ratios are not proportional, so unless you are using extremely low bitrates if the two files have the same file size, the full res picture will look better visually than the half res picture.

It is just your opinion based on what you have to play with.

The real truth comes out when one actually does a practical prove of concept using a raw stereoscopic footage as an input.


Mathew Orman
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by icester /forum/post/19517939


My apologies.

Can you break down the question to less complex one.

I have a hard time to provide an answer to such question.


Mathew Orman

Please explin why 3D games played using Nvidia 3D vision are true 3D and movies filmed with IMAX 3D cameras and show at an IMAX 3D theater maybe but if they are enocoded using (2D+Delta) format on a blu-Ray disk they are not?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by icester /forum/post/19517939


My apologies.

Can you break down the question to less complex one.

I have a hard time to provide an answer to such question.


Mathew Orman

Please explain why 3D games played using Nvidia 3D vision are "true 3D" and movies filmed with IMAX 3D cameras and shown at an IMAX 3D theater maybe but if they are "true 3D and then enocded using MVC(2D+Delta) format on a blu-Ray disk they are not any more?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford /forum/post/19518057


Please explain why 3D games played using Nvidia 3D vision are "true 3D" and movies filmed with IMAX 3D cameras and shown at an IMAX 3D theater maybe but if they are "true 3D and then enocded using MVC(2D+Delta) format on a blu-Ray disk they are not any more?

Simply, nVidia outputs 1920 x 1080 x 32bit color, 60 Hz

without any compression in-between the card and monitor.

Encoded movies have reduced resolution due to lossy compression, motion blurring and camera focus blurring.

Additionally 3D movies encoded using MVC 2D + Delta method have reduced texture specularities and reduced or totally removed low contrast details.


Mathew Orman
 

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LoL icester,

Video games are not perfect sources, they have lots of shader approximations all over, blurry textures, reduced resolution (shadows and reflections), insufficient geometry details (obvious in close ups), insufficient rendering resolution (visible aliasing even with the best anti-aliasing modes enabled) in order to run the games in real time and most recent games even include motion blur and depth of field effects.


If the picture quality of 3D BluRays with MPEG4 MVC is insufficient for you then may I dare ask your opinion on 2D movies ?

2D BluRay (Mpeg4 AVC) ?

Digital cinema (jpeg2000) ?

Film ?
 

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by 2014 every graphically, or just computationally intensive task will be run "on cloud" , this means limitless, supercomputer perfomance. Real time ray tracing will be commonplace very soon, streaming thru web browsers.


The console driven "prevgenHD" era is about to end. Now lets hope for MEMS displays.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by icester /forum/post/19518196


Simply, nVidia outputs 1920 x 1080 x 32bit color, 60 Hz

without any compression in-between the card and monitor.

Encoded movies have reduced resolution due to lossy compression, motion blurring and camera focus blurring.

Additionally 3D movies encoded using MVC 2D + Delta method have reduced texture specularities and reduced or totally removed low contrast details.


Mathew Orman

Do you consider programs "filmed" with 3D IMAX cameras and shown at 3D IMAX theaters as "true 3D" or as just a "gimmick"?


Doesn't your statement that "MVC 2D + Delta method have reduced texture specularities and reduced or totally removed low contrast details" depend on the quality of the MVC encoder or is true of all MVC encoders as you imply?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford /forum/post/19520595


Do you consider programs "filmed" with 3D IMAX cameras and shown at 3D IMAX theaters as "true 3D" or as just a "gimmick"?


Doesn't your statement that "MVC 2D + Delta method have reduced texture specularities and reduced or totally removed low contrast details" depend on the quality of the MVC encoder or is true of all MVC encoders as you imply?

Since it's inception in 1971 IMAX totally relied on gimmick

that is an adrenaline WOW effect on viewers due to gigantism of scenes and actors in every movie.

It goes for both in 2D and 3D movies. Additionally IMAX productions of 3D movies are no different than competition and it also uses parallax limit driven stereoscopic content distortion techniques which yield totally unrealistic immersion.


Again MVC 2D + Delta technique was originally created in Germany's Fraunhofer Institute.

http://www.hhi.fraunhofer.de/en/depa...sing/overview/


The intention was to create efficient 3D Television signal compression method. It was established that in order to satisfy limited bandwidth compromises such as stereoscopic detail reduction had to be implemented.

The creators also acknowledge that the methods creates 3D artifacts that are not present in original content.


For those who would like to test the MVC codec and it's 3D implementation, here is the source code:

http://iphome.hhi.de/suehring/tml/download/


Mathew Orman
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShark /forum/post/19519735


LoL icester,

Video games are not perfect sources, they have lots of shader approximations all over, blurry textures, reduced resolution (shadows and reflections), insufficient geometry details (obvious in close ups), insufficient rendering resolution (visible aliasing even with the best anti-aliasing modes enabled) in order to run the games in real time and most recent games even include motion blur and depth of field effects.


If the picture quality of 3D BluRays with MPEG4 MVC is insufficient for you then may I dare ask your opinion on 2D movies ?

2D BluRay (Mpeg4 AVC) ?

Digital cinema (jpeg2000) ?

Film ?

That is nothing to do with Nvidia's GPU performance and it is only dependent on Game design.

4k textures can be used in rendering of FULL 3D HD format

without any compression between the card and display monitor.


Blue Ray has no magic capabilities and it is not capable of streaming real full HD content in 2D and much less in 3D.


Mathew Orman
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gain3 /forum/post/19519978


by 2014 every graphically, or just computationally intensive task will be run "on cloud" , this means limitless, supercomputer perfomance. Real time ray tracing will be commonplace very soon, streaming thru web browsers.


The console driven "prevgenHD" era is about to end. Now lets hope for MEMS displays.

You are very optimistic.


Mathew Orman
 
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