[hifipj]

Hi,


In my preview of the 9000, I noted that Sharp had made a pretty big oversight by not having 1280x720 as one of the preset resolutions on the VGA input. This is a necessity for all us HTPC fans, as we want to feed the 9000 1280x720 and have it pixel map the HTPC signal 1:1, much as you would with a D-IILA.


I was told by Sharp reps that the SharpVision CD has software that lets you specify custom resolutions for the 9000 (one had already been defined on the sample I used, a 1024x600 custom resolution). But this is not the case--the CD only has software for creating custom gamma curves.


So, has anyone figured out how to set up a 1280x720 resolution on their 9000? How did you do it? Did you use Marky's D-ILA test pattern, and were you able to achieve "Pixel Perfection"? I'm very curious to see if anyone has gotten 1280x720 via HTPC to work properly on the VGA input!


Best Regards,


Pat

 

[Jim Ferguson]

Hi Pat,


While you're waiting for a response to your question http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif can you clarify whether or not 1280x720 from an HTPC works via the RGBHV input? Is the problem just with the VGA input?

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Does this also affect those with outboard scalers (like the NR) that would attempt to match the resolution of the projector?


-dave

 

[David Wallis]

Pat

I thought I remember that when this rumour came up about the Sharp, that it was you said you could do feed the 9000 1280x720 and have it perfect pixel map the signal 1:1

What does it say in the manual?

I guess someone needs to look at this because this would be a serious ommission. I know it will take a 1280x720 signal but what does it do with that signal?


DavidW

 

[hifipj]

Jim,


Yes, you can 'trick' it by feeding 1280x720/59.94Hz into the RGBHV. But on these inputs, clock and phase cannot be adjusted. And what I found is that the timing is slightly off--when fed a 1 pixel checkerboard pattern, it was a little fuzzy and definitely not syncing up perfectly, timing-wise.


You'd need a scaler with this 1 pixel on/off pattern to judge how it works with other scalers, but the only one I'm aware of that has this is the Rock.


And to my knowledge, NRS does NOT offer 1280x720. I believe that was left out intentionally, to prevent cannibalizing too many sales of the 3000/5000.


The manual has several resolutions listed that it's designed to accept; 1280x720 is not one of them. It does not tell you how to go into the setup menu to defie a custom resolution, but there is a section of the OSD there where there are 7 banks available for custom resolutions.


Best,


Pat

 

[cam]

Pat,


NRS does provide 1280x720 resolution as I have got one. When I feed it to the Sharp 9000, the projector displays signal info: "720p" when I checked it using the OSD (or when you change inputs).


Also, it will accept 720p (NTSC) in both RGBHV and VGA input, what the internal scaler does is probably another question.


Cam

 

[Jeff Owen]

I am also looking at this configuration. Does this mean that the Sharp may rescale a 720p image from the NR (ie double scaling??) and,,, wouldn't that be bad or provide some picture degradation?

Thanks

Jeff

 

[cam]

Jeff,


My guess is the internal scaler takes its hands off this native rate signal. Why I say this because the picture looks great. (Viewing the Fifth element on this combo is just flawless)


Cam

 

[David Wallis]


Quote:

But on these inputs, clock and phase cannot be adjusted. And what I found is that the timing is slightly off--when fed a 1 pixel checkerboard pattern, it was a little fuzzy and definitely not syncing up perfectly, timing-wise. You'd need a scaler with this 1 pixel on/off pattern to judge how it works with other scalers, but the only one I'm aware of that has this is the Rock.

That sounds like the internal scaler is still engaged. As you say this needs the Rock to see exactly what is happening. It sounds like something strange is occuring that is preventing the internal scaler being bypassed.


DavidW

 

[Augie]

I called Sharp (1-877-DTV-SHARP) and to their credit they put me in touch with a Sharp Service Engineer. I emailed him a link to this thread. Here is his response:


[E-mail removed - Posted without permission of author.]


I'm no expert, but that doesn't explain how Faroudja got the NRS to hand the 9000 1280x720, does it? Maybe one of you HTPC experts (Pat?! Long time reader first time caller. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif ) can correspond with Russell and find out.



[This message has been edited by Augie (edited 10-04-2001).]


[This message has been edited by David Bott (edited 10-05-2001).]

 

[Gladiator]

Augie- Hang in there, I supposed to receive my 9000Z and NRS from AVS Store any day now. Jason at AVS assured me that the NRS works with the 9000Z. The response from the Sharp Rep seems to be discussing input 5, which is the computer RGB input. I am running the NRS into the component inputs, either input 1 or 2. These are described as "high bandwidth" DTV capable. In the Sharp PDF manual posted by Spizz, on the spec page, there is the following spec:

It says Horizontal resolution- 720 tv lines (DTV 720 input, dot by dot mode). Since the NRS is outputting a 720P signal, maybe the Sharp is recognizing it as a DTV signal (native resolution signal) and switching to a dot by dot mode. I don't know, I'm just guessing here. When the NRS and 9000Z arrive I guess I'll know for sure if it works, however I guess I really never know if the Sharp internal scaler is being used as well (hopefully not). I am going to try to call the Sharp rep and see what he says.

 

[Augie]

Gladiator, am I jealous! Have fun with your new projector! And let us know how the 9000/NRS combination works out.


Russell says input 5 doesn't support 1280x720 input. If that's true, HTPC-ers are out of luck?

 

[jbryngelson]

My guess is Russell Funk from Sharp is not thinking of a PC as capable of a 16:9 output of 1280x720. 99% of the world think the only resolution from a PC would be 4:3, so he may not be understanding the question.


As for the Faroudja HDTV NRS input to the Sharp, I believe it would not engage the internal scaler, as this is the native rate of the projector.


I am very curious to know the difference between a progressive 480P and interlaced 480i input to the projector...I need to recommend a DVD to a customer real soon for this projector.


Jeff in Detroit


------------------

Color Analyzer - Will Travel

--You deserve Image Perfection--

 

[JustMike]

Boy, that reply sure seems to miss the point. You'd think Sharp would be aware of products like the NRS and HTPCs, which are exactly what a home theater application would use...


------------------

Mike Kobb

(Formerly "ReplayMike", but no longer affiliated with the company; these opinions are mine alone.)

 

[PhilB]

It sure seems that Sharp didn't do their homework. PC video cards already support 1280x720, I know one of my lab machines at work with a GeForce card can output that resolution.


Also, 16:9 monitors PC monitors are available. I've seen one from Sun at work, and Mac is selling at least one 16:9 LCD monitor.


Before long, people will have HDTVs at home with PCs hooked up to a broadband connection surfing the web or video conferencing. I'm looking forward to the day when my kids can see their grandparents on a daily basis even though they live 10 hours away, and I'll definitely expect my large screen TV (FP) to support it.


-phil


[This message has been edited by PhilB (edited 10-04-2001).]

 

[Spizz]

Some people that have seen the banding on some grey scale charts on the Sharp can now email Russell W. Funk and find out what the problem is and if its fixable. I wouldn;t mind emailing him to find out about the PAL progressive issue if there is one...


Spero D.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Quote:

My guess is Russell Funk from Sharp is not thinking of a PC as capable of a 16:9 output of 1280x720. 99% of the world think the only resolution from a PC would be 4:3, so he may not be understanding the question.

But he isn'te selling his projector to 99% of the world...he's selling it to HT nuts.


In any case...whether PC or outboard scaler or what...one ought to be able to bypass the internal scaler.


Wasn't this one of the primary criticisms of the Sony 10-HT? It's Sharp's job to listen to community forums like this to determine what consumers want and to make sure their products can be used to the fullest potential by those consumers.


-dave

 

[Gladiator]

Hi all- I called Sharp today and after three call transfers got their "technical division". Since I ordered a Faroudja NRS (720P) for my 9000Z, I was curious to see if the Sharp's internal scaler would also be working or bypassed. The Sharp tech, Angelo, knew exactly what I was talking about (relief) and stated that when fed a 720P signal into input 1 or 2 (component inputs) the Sharp goes into a dot by dot mode and the scaler is bypassed, which I was very glad to hear. I also asked about the VGA (input 5) for all you HTPC users and he said that the computer input would not recognize the 720P input and go into a dot by dot mode. I believe Cam (forum member), fed the 720P input into VGA input and said the picture worked fine. I don't know a lot about HTPC, but could you use a VGA breakout to component cable from your PC to the component inputs on the Sharp? So long as it's a 720P signal into the component input, the Sharp scaler would be bypassed and you would have the dot by dot mode you need. I have no idea if something like that could be done, but just an idea. When my 9000Z and NRS arrive, I will try to output from the VGA output on the NRS to the VGA input on the Sharp and see if it works. If it does, I think HTPC user's will be in luck. Maybe some of the Sharp reps don't realize some people can output a 720P signal from their computers. Remember, Sharp probably has an awful lot of technical reps and I only spoke to one of them. He seemed to know what he was talking about and didn't even hesitate to say the Sharp scaler was bypassed when fed a 720P signal, but hopefully he is wrong for all of you computer users out there. I'll post when I can try the VGA input for all of you.




[This message has been edited by Gladiator (edited 10-05-2001).]

 

[Jim Ferguson]

This is what Pat said about that earlier in the thread:

Quote:

Yes, you can 'trick' it by feeding 1280x720/59.94Hz into the RGBHV. But on these inputs, clock and phase cannot be adjusted. And what I found is that the timing is slightly off--when fed a 1 pixel checkerboard pattern, it was a little fuzzy and definitely not syncing up perfectly, timing-wise.

 

[David Wallis]

Looking at what the two Sharp Tech's and Pat has said the RGB will not bypass the internal scaler but the component input will allow the internal scaler to be bypassed.

Not good for HTPC guys who want Pixel perfect mapping.

But at least you could use a Faroudja NR via the component inputs and fully bypass the scaler.


DavidW