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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Having a hard time tolerating QLED Motion blur...

Especially anything when gaming that's in first or 3rd person perspective which requires you to constantly move the in-game camera around...i'm extremely sensitive to motion blur, lets just say.... i'm allergic. :eek::mad:

i'm coming from an S60 60" Panasonic 2013 plasma, it has very good black levels, solid color but fails in overall brightness during bright scenes etc and is painfully dim especially when ABL rears it's ugly head and there's too much input lag when gaming. I'd be be pretty happy if i could achieve plasma-level motion on a good QLED...Yet it seems like the only way to achieve plasma level motion clarity is to MAX black frame insertion mode on a QLED 'if' that particular set has good BFI....problem is, is that it dims 75% of the screen and increases the input lag when gaming quite a bit.

Motion interpolation/Blur reduction mode on the other hand may be horrible for movies and TV as it causes the soap opera effect but i'm assuming with gaming this shouldn't be an issue since gamers like myself are always clamoring for 60fps + frame rates. 120fps being fully capable with the upcoming PS5 and XBOX series X. Question is, Can Motion interpolation on something like a Samsung QLED dramatically reduce motion blur and make motion more realistic, crisp and smooth like plasma when gaming?

I dont know, i just want a great QLED that can somehow give me plasma-like motion using motion interpolation while barely raising input lag when gaming. I was dead set on getting the Hisense H9F but it's motion interpolation raises input lag over 100ms....where as last years Samsung Q70R for exmaple only raises it to 21ms using Motion interpolation, but the Hisense is just an overall much better TV.

I'm currently holding out until RTNGS reviews this years Hisense H9G and Vizio M8. looking into getting a 55"
The LG C9 OLED was in the cards but i cannot for the life of me stand the blue/green tinted colors and overall 'cool' temperature of the screen along with Auto brightness limiting.
 

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Stuff like BFI can come close to Plasma motion since it mimicks such motion. In fact BFI high on 2020 LG OLED comes very close but has lots of drawbacks which makes it unusable. There are lots of positive stories on some game monitors so you might want to take a look at Mark Rejhons site...
https://blurbusters.com/
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Stuff like BFI can come close to Plasma motion since it mimicks such motion. In fact BFI high on 2020 LG OLED comes very close but has lots of drawbacks which makes it unusable. There are lots of positive stories on some game monitors so you might want to take a look at Mark Rejhons site...
https://blurbusters.com/
Yeah, if it wasn't for the screen dimming significantly i'd definitely use BFI for Movies & TV. with gaming, it will do that and increase input lag so it's a no go. And thanks for the link, but the majority of gaming monitors are just too small for my liking and seem to have horrible contrast ratios.

Perhaps setting BFI to 'low' which should decrease brightness by 25% when watching a movie might not be so bad since something like the Hisense H9F is capable of 1000 nits. you'd think you'd be able to sacrifice some of that or less blur considering the brightness is capable of blowing your eyes out lol
 

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Ive heard that the LG CX has excellent BFI this year. Set to low and medium, there is minimal dimming and flicker but motion blur is greatly improved. Ive been trying to track down a 48" CX as it seems like the ultimate monitor. I am also extremely sensitive to motion blur, and both OLED and LCD technology use the sample-and-hold method to display frames. It is hard to get used to that when you've been watching a plasma for the better part of a decade.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Ive heard that the LG CX has excellent BFI this year. Set to low and medium, there is minimal dimming and flicker but motion blur is greatly improved. Ive been trying to track down a 48" CX as it seems like the ultimate monitor. I am also extremely sensitive to motion blur, and both OLED and LCD technology use the sample-and-hold method to display frames. It is hard to get used to that when you've been watching a plasma for the better part of a decade.
RTNGS says that motion interpolation in game mode raises the lag to about 94ms on the CX. eek! But with BFI they don't say as always. This youtuber said that BFI on his CX bumped lag up to 27ms. it also seems to dim things down quite a bit. Knowing me, i'd need BFI maxed but then i'd wind up with a display that's hitting near ABL plasma dimness. :p

The beef i have with OLED at this point is the WRGB color...colors can look unnaturally cool and blue/green, compared to a good true RGB QLED. Plus there's also auto brightness limiting, another annoyance that plagued plasmas. They're asking too much money for crappier color, ABL and sample and hold motion. :rolleyes:

Gaming was so much more enjoyable on my 32" Full screen Sony wega tritron CRT tube TV back in the mid to late 2000's using component cables. i LOVED that TV. perfect blur free motion, zero input lag, very good blacks, great colors, perfect viewing angles, most of which can't be said for any QLED. Great TV for 480i content.

Ever since i took the plunge into HDTV la la land it's been nothing with problems. :p With you plasma you have to deal with low brightness, ABL, high input lag when gaming and motion generally still isn't as good as CRT, there's motion dithering and even phospher trails. LED has come a long way, we now have QLED's with good local dimming, yet like OLED they both use sample and hold technology, with is an enormous downgrade when youve been accustomed to CRT and even plasma.
 

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Didn't know that BFI increased input lag. Thanks.

Reviewers would hopefully provided test results when using it.

Coming from an old IPS TV about 7+ years old then buying a 65" TCL 4, I noticed massive smearing and blurring specially on FPS and TPS and almost drove me mad that most people don't notice or care about it.

Tried X900F and Vizio P and was quite disappointed.

Should've bought that 1080p plasma for $ 500, brand new almost 4 years go.

Hope you find the perfect compromise in getting a new set and the luck of panel uniformity.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Didn't know that BFI increased input lag. Thanks.

Reviewers would hopefully provided test results when using it.

Coming from an old IPS TV about 7+ years old then buying a 65" TCL 4, I noticed massive smearing and blurring specially on FPS and TPS and almost drove me mad that most people don't notice or care about it.

Tried X900F and Vizio P and was quite disappointed.

Should've bought that 1080p plasma for $ 500, brand new almost 4 years go.

Hope you find the perfect compromise in getting a new set and the luck of panel uniformity.

Funny you mention the TCL 4, my brother has the 65" 2019 4 Series, and i've got only two good things to say about it. it's low 13ms input lag for gaming and seomwhat decent black levels(More so with ambient lighting) for a non FALD set.

But good lord does that TV have terrible motion....i was playing Resident Evil 3 remake running in 60fps on PS4 Pro a few weeks ago back at my house and i wanted to throw up. i couldn't stand to play it anymore, it was an absolute smear fest. it's like the equivalent of drinking 12 beers and rubbing vaseline over your coke bottled glasses. it's game breaking especially for anything in first or 3rd person.

Colors not good, no wide color gamut, it's an 8-bit panel, HDR was terrible and it cant get very bright....i tried to talk him out of getting it but he wanted to save the money so alas.

But yeah, i'm now considering the 55" LG C9......Perfect blacks, no blooming, instantaneous/faster motion response time compared to QLED, superior viewing angles and i absolutely loveee the design of the C9 Aesthetically speaking. But i'm still concerned about Auto brightness limiting and colors looking too 'cool' and blue.

Has anybody owned the H9F or C9 and compared the two? I wish i had both TV's to tinker with, just having them hooked up simotaneously with an HDMI splitter and seeing which of the two i prefer, and comparing them to my plasma.

Maybe setting the C9 to it's warmest temperature, playing with the color settings or having it calibrated can make it look more like an RGB panel?
 

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I hear, but they're some of the worst for input lag. a match made in hell for gamers. :p
That very well could change with the 900H once they push the updates for the 2.1 ports. I'm not a gamer, but some gamers say they think lag could come close to half of the 21ms Sonys usually have.
 

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I hear, but they're some of the worst for input lag. a match made in hell for gamers. :p
It's not that bad, I was just playing some CoD Modern Warefare last night and absolutely destroying people with my Z9D's 22ms or whatever it is input lag. The only instances where I consider it detrimental is playing a 1080p game like Smash Bros. or some button masher like that in 1080p.
 

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Funny you mention the TCL 4, my brother has the 65" 2019 4 Series, and i've got only two good things to say about it. it's low 13ms input lag for gaming and seomwhat decent black levels(More so with ambient lighting) for a non FALD set.

But good lord does that TV have terrible motion....i was playing Resident Evil 3 remake running in 60fps on PS4 Pro a few weeks ago back at my house and i wanted to throw up. i couldn't stand to play it anymore, it was an absolute smear fest. it's like the equivalent of drinking 12 beers and rubbing vaseline over your coke bottled glasses. it's game breaking especially for anything in first or 3rd person.

Colors not good, no wide color gamut, it's an 8-bit panel, HDR was terrible and it cant get very bright....i tried to talk him out of getting it but he wanted to save the money so alas.

But yeah, i'm now considering the 55" LG C9......Perfect blacks, no blooming, instantaneous/faster motion response time compared to QLED, superior viewing angles and i absolutely loveee the design of the C9 Aesthetically speaking. But i'm still concerned about Auto brightness limiting and colors looking too 'cool' and blue.

Has anybody owned the H9F or C9 and compared the two? I wish i had both TV's to tinker with, just having them hooked up simotaneously with an HDMI splitter and seeing which of the two i prefer, and comparing them to my plasma.

Maybe setting the C9 to it's warmest temperature, playing with the color settings or having it calibrated can make it look more like an RGB panel?
Glad I wasn't crazy. I had to turn off motion blur with Doom because the blur was so horrible. Got really lucky with it because it had the best uniformity I got that year, Sony and Vizio were atrocious.

What's hilarious is that I found myself super sensitive to blooming and my g** I am staying away from any fald set. Even a slight of center just absolutely wrecks the image quality for me. Also tend to watch with lots of subtitles so FALD is absolutely a no-no unless I get the set really cheap.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I also want to try OLED but it's only the price that's really keeping me away. I think I'd rather risk the burn in than the heartache of blooming. Still I don't know if I'll be ok with ABL but I was okay with it with an old crappy plasma except that one had some subtle horizontal line issues. Another I worry is the WRGB dithering. Some say they notice it on native 4K desktop tests on text but I can't find any data on it as I forgot to bookmark about a year ago.
 

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Glad I wasn't crazy. I had to turn off motion blur with Doom because the blur was so horrible. Got really lucky with it because it had the best uniformity I got that year, Sony and Vizio were atrocious.

What's hilarious is that I found myself super sensitive to blooming and my g** I am staying away from any fald set. Even a slight of center just absolutely wrecks the image quality for me. Also tend to watch with lots of subtitles so FALD is absolutely a no-no unless I get the set really cheap. When you watch lots of susubtitles stuff it is better you buy a OLED which is emissive.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I also want to try OLED but it's only the price that's really keeping me away.
Top TVs used to be like 2.000-5.000 bucks at 50/60 inch. A 55'' OLED model can be had for 1.500 buck after a year when the model is on its way out. So prices dropped considerably and people should stop whining about it. If you want a decent TV it will cost you some money.

I have been in a situation were i owned a FALD and watched lots of subtitles, which was indeed very annoying but that was 10 years ago. FALD is slowly being replaced by super FALD which are FALDs that use miniLEDs with way more zones so smaller areas can be dimmed. I think you are better of with a emissive TV tech right now like Plasma or OLED which is what you stated also.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
I'm leaning more towards the LG C9 55" OLED now...seeing as how i'm such a huge fan of CRT and to a lesser extent plasma, OLED IS the closest thing to them. no blooming, perfect blacks, superior viewing angles to that of a qled, no funky local dimming 'dimming' of dark scenes(think dimmed down stars to achieve deeper blacks on QLED) etc.

I guess i'll have to adjust to the WRGB OLED color being a little on the cool side. maybe i can set it to the warmest setting, tinker with the color settings or have it calibrated to look more natural like a true RGB Panel?

I am curious though, people keep saying LG OLED's have a near instantaneous motion response time, yet it still uses sample and hold technology. with that being said, shouldn't the C9 produce a lot less motion blur/clearer motion clarity(without using BFI or motion interpolation of course) than even the best QLED's like the H9F and Q90R???
 

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Eventhough LCD has slower respons time LCD has been better at motion improvement options but OLED is catching up for instance 2020 OLED BFI improved some. That super fast response time does not work well with low frame rate like 24fps. Also Sample & Hold is not good for motion. Best would be native higher frame rate content so one does not need motion improvement at all.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Eventhough LCD has slower respons time LCD has been better at motion improvement options but OLED is catching up for instance 2020 OLED BFI improved some. That super fast response time does not work well with low frame rate like 24fps. Also Sample & Hold is not good for motion. Best would be native higher frame rate content so one does not need motion improvement at all.
so what you're describing is more noticeable judder on the OLED, simply because there's less motion blur which makes it more visible for low frame rate content?

I'm not worried about judder for low frame rate content, 99% of the time, i play video games running in 60fps so it's not even there. i avoid 30fps like the plague, not only because it looks unimpressive but because of the motion judder/doubling like you described.

What i'm asking is, judder aside is if you were to run a 3rd person or first person video game in 60fps(Zero judder/frame doubling) on an OLED and QLED, and you span the in-game camera around in circles, which of two would have less motion blur and more motion clarity, Without using any tacked on BFI or motion interpolation.

Would the OLED come closer to matching the plasma or would it be QLED.
 

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Despite being sample and hold, I find OLEDs to be far less motion-blurry than even overdriven gaming LCDs let alone LCD TVs. I'm pretty sure Trumotion and OLED Motion Pro (BFI) are disabled in "Game mode" or "Instant Game Response" mode anyway. One way to reduce motion blur is to game on a PC at 120Hz. I much prefer GSync at 100+fps (even if it's "only" 1440p) to BFI.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Despite being sample and hold, I find OLEDs to be far less motion-blurry than even overdriven gaming LCDs let alone LCD TVs. I'm pretty sure Trumotion and OLED Motion Pro (BFI) are disabled in "Game mode" or "Instant Game Response" mode anyway. One way to reduce motion blur is to game on a PC at 120Hz. I much prefer GSync at 100+fps (even if it's "only" 1440p) to BFI.
The latest Samsung QLED's have Game Motion plus(under motion interpolation i think) available to use when gaming, but it seems to raise input to about 21ms and it doesn't to work 'that' well', input lag-wise, not terrible, but i'm looking for something below 16ms/1 frame.

LG C9's motion interpolation raises lag to over 90ms, while BFI hits about 27ms, or at least with the CX. wouldn't use either. as long as the C9 can produce motion on it's own that's far less blurry and can retain more motion clarity than lets say either the Hisense H9F or H9G than i'm on board. i just need to make sure :p

I wish i had both the C9 and H9G/or H9F in person, so i could test both of them out simotaneouesly with an HDMI Spliter and compare both to my S60 Plasma.
 

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so what you're describing is more noticeable judder on the OLED, simply because there's less motion blur which makes it more visible for low frame rate content?
No motion blur with lower frame rate. Just odd motion behavior depend on model/manufacturer though.
Donny said:
What i'm asking is, judder aside is if you were to run a 3rd person or first person video game in 60fps(Zero judder/frame doubling) on an OLED and QLED, and you span the in-game camera around in circles, which of two would have less motion blur and more motion clarity, Without using any tacked on BFI or motion interpolation.
Would the OLED come closer to matching the plasma or would it be QLED.
It all depends on how motion sensitive you are ar really. Most people are not motion sensitive. With Sample & Hold for shure you need motion improvement options active when there is lots of fast motion like sport. Some LCD/OLED TVs come close but only when using motion improvement options. Keep in mind that plenty of Plasma's have 1080 lines going when there is motion (motion resolution) that is how you get motion clarity. with Sample & Hold LCD/OLED that is native, with motion improvement options turned off, 300 lines.
 

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so what you're describing is more noticeable judder on the OLED, simply because there's less motion blur which makes it more visible for low frame rate content?
The OLED will have more stutter not judder. The response time of an OLED is about as close to instant as it gets; the trade-off is more stutter. I'm not sure you fully understand how motion on digital displays "works". Also your repeated use of the term "QLED" like a display type (it's not) is a bit concerning. "QLED" is just a name made up by Samsung, these are LCD TVs plain and simple.

"Quantum dot" refers to a filter, not the display type. LCDs, like other digital display types (OLED and plasma included) all display using "sample and hold". QD filters typically do not alter motion in significant ways so as to justify repeatedly saying "QLED" instead of LCD when in this contex we're really talking about the panel types--LCD, OLED, plasma--and about how they display instead of marketing buzzwords. If [QD filters] did tend to make motion better or worse I could see why one would refer to it that way but I've not seen any evidence of this or even mention of it anywhere so let's just call a spade a spade here--these are LCD panels.

OLED is actually a great example of why fantastic response time doesn't mean you're not going to see blur, in fact you can see quite a lot of blur with some OLEDs...

Anyway I'm not going to bother getting into all kinds of explanations as they are out there on the intarwebs and I suggest you do some reading/viewing about how motion works on displays:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_motion_blur
https://blurbusters.com
https://blurbusters.com/faq/oled-motion-blur/
https://www.testufo.com/
https://www.cnet.com/news/black-frame-insertion-busting-blur-from-oculus-to-lcd-tvs/

There are many dimensions of this, it's not just a matter of "oh plasma is bestest evar and I only play games at 60FPS" and what have you. There's panel refresh rate, pixel response time, frame-hold time, motion resolution, stutter, judder, and then all the things used to improve motion some of which cause other ill effects, some of which aren't desired for certain content types; the list goes on. Input lag is another thing and is esp. important for gaming but doesn't really relate to motion performance of the panel; most TVs these days have pretty acceptable lag numbers when in game mode though.

The only things I'd suggest here are firstly the reading like above and other sites; secondly simply trying out the sets in reality with actual content you'd be using/viewing to determine how good/bad they are for your use and your eyes.
 
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