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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Okay, I believe I answered my second question:


When KND said in his post to use "75% saturation patterns" I thought the 75% brightness window in the AVS disc was what I was to use. I needed to go to the saturation patterns @ 75%, not the 75% color window.


This explains why I was seeing identical values when using the 75% brightness window over the 100% brightness window.


I'm still quite confused about the CMS system on these LG's. The more I research the more I'm beginning to believe it is almost useless.


But I'm going to try the 75% saturation method and see if I can do any better.

http://www.tweaktv.com/forum/find-a-...tion/view.html

Quote:
...In the case of the LG the CMS system is so flawed that it can't be used so a professional calibration would be limited to the grayscale and the rest of the user parameters...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanHomsey /forum/post/20789610


A few questions:

1. Sometimes when I make massive changes for the color via its tint/color control it does not reflect in the x and y values shown in HCFR, why? I would think when I can visually see the tint changing radically, those values should always change significantly... yet sometimes they do not change at all, why?


The main reason that concerns me is because my goal, initially, was to make as big of changes I needed to get as close to the x,y values as possible. On my first run this yeilded my red at a 'color' point very high. As soon as I put on some reference material I knew it was much too high. Does that indicate I have a bad meter? Am I missing something?

2. As I understand it the x and y values signify a colors saturation and hue. So, I should get different values when displaying the 100% saturation red over the 75% saturation red, correct? Because I dont, the values are the same.


The reason I ask is because I noticed another LG LCD owner here noted an issue with the CMS in his LD550, a very similar model. He outlines his method in this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post18868120 and said




I tried his method, and was able to achieve the x,y points he directed to except for blue. But I found, after measuring, that the results yeilded were significantly off. I basically had to take all the saturation out of red to hit his values. Obviously didnt work for me.


I feel like I'm missing something. The grey scale was so easy and accurate. I'm finding the CMS to be quite frustrating.


I attached my HCFR file in case it might help you identify my issue.


Thanks!

Color is not a saturation control, it effects color luminance mostly (Y). To minimize your primary and secondary color dE, make sure to minimize delta luma for each color. To see this, you need to expand the datagrid by pressing the down arrow on the top right corner of the datagrid until you can go no further down.


For test patterns, I recommend 75% color windows (that means 75% brightness, 100% saturation).
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U /forum/post/20791187


Color is not a saturation control, it effects color luminance mostly (Y). To minimize your primary and secondary color dE, make sure to minimize delta luma for each color. To see this, you need to expand the datagrid by pressing the down arrow on the top right corner of the datagrid until you can go no further down.

I never scrolled down to see that delta luma section of the datagrid... didnt know it was there.


I just went and did another greyscale run with no CMS values - got them all with a delta E

I also did a run using KND's 75% Saturation method and ended up with subpar results.


I'll see if the "delta luma" data helps although I'm thinking the CMS may be somewhat useless in these LG sets.


Thanks for the help!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U /forum/post/20791187


Color is not a saturation control, it effects color luminance mostly (Y). To minimize your primary and secondary color dE, make sure to minimize delta luma for each color.

Actually, it's been my experience that minimizing delta lumas will tend to send your deltaE's soaring. At one point, I had them (lumas) all

So far, the 75% Saturation method has yielded the best *looking* picture on my set (LK450) ... but I'll admit that afterwards, a standard color *decoding* pattern looks a bit messy through the filters.


The choice here seems to be between accurate colorimetry (x,y) or accurate intensity (Y). My eyes seem to be more sensitive to (x,y) ... YMMV.


Then again, the set looks just fine (if a bit neonish) with the CMS zeroed out.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged /forum/post/20793834


Actually, it's been my experience that minimizing delta lumas will tend to send your deltaE's soaring. At one point, I had them (lumas) all

So far, the 75% Saturation method has yielded the best *looking* picture on my set (LK450) ... but I'll admit that afterwards, a standard color *decoding* pattern looks a bit messy through the filters.


The choice here seems to be between accurate colorimetry (x,y) or accurate intensity (Y). My eyes seem to be more sensitive to (x,y) ... YMMV.


Then again, the set looks just fine (if a bit neonish) with the CMS zeroed out.

You can't set (xy) of the primaries with color/tint, just the brightness of the primaries and the hue of the secondaries. The CMS would be different though.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U /forum/post/20794298


You can't set (xy) of the primaries with color/tint, just the brightness of the primaries and the hue of the secondaries. The CMS would be different though.

Well yes ... never said differently



Anyway, there is a third possibility: One's colorimeter a/o software might turn out to read/calculate the Y of the red "channel" consistently high, which would lead one to erroneously decrease "red color" in an attempt to bring red into alignment, thus resulting in the icky, sickly, greenish picture described in my previous post.


Fortunately the TV-set's "color filters" can be used on the white target to determine an appropriate Y value to target for each primary. ... IOW, operator error, disregard my last post.
 
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