[008]

Hi all. I had my set up compared simultaneously to a progressive labs CA6. The results where massively different in grayscale and CIE plots.


As an example greyscale at 100% ire;


red 48% green 116% blue 90% my set up


red 90% green 103% blue 100% CA6


We used a RS1 with both probes faceing the screen. The ca6 readings to my eye where accurate so I deduce either I have HCFR set up wrong or the LT is reading incorrectly even though it is a new unit.


I suspect it is my HCFR set up as I had previously used a Spyder with equaly inaccurate results especially with red.

 

[Kelvin1965S]

That's not a good sign. I just spent the last couple of nights calibrating my TV and then my PJ using the same kit as you.

I had problems setting up the probe to work off my screen, so I did the PJ with the diffuser fitted and facing the PJ (doesn't calibrate for the screen of course, but my new screen comes soon, so this was more a practice and a starting point for a cal with the new screen when it comes).


You need to make sure that the sensor calibration is performed on a dark black surface (usually the inside of a DVD case is recommended) and make sure the room is completely dark when you do this. Cover the top of the sensor with a dark cloth to make sure no light is getting into the sensor during this calibration.


I presume you've read the 'dummies' guide, but if not then you need to make sure the settings for HFRC are correct. You must have the I1 driver "eyeone.dll" installed in the \\Program files\\Colour HFCR folder for a start, though I'm sure you must have done this otherwise you won't have the I1 as an option to choose. Set preferences to HDTV-REC709 and display gamma with black compensation. Make sure the 'display' setting to the right hand side of HFCR screen has xyY selected too.


You should also use the 'Eye One Display LCD' setting in the sensor/configure menu.


If you've done all the above, then that would be dissapointing. I only got my I1-LT for Christmas (maybe from the same supplier given we're both based in the South of the UK?). I had a good result setting up my TV with the I1, but struggled with my PJ even in the reportedly 'good' Colour 1 mode I was short of blue, so I've had to boost the blue contrast to get it to D65.

 

[008]

The interesting thing is that the greyscale on my set up when compared to the CA6 on all IRE's produced the same results. ie the red tracked 48% on my

set up through all IREs as did the CA6 at near 90%.


The readings where taken after a black level reset and in a batcave so I dont think there are any room conditions affecting the readings.

 

[hinagiku]

I think I have the same problem. Just bought me an eye-one display2 myself and went almost insane trying to configure my LE40A656 with HCFR. Especially red is extremely low according to HCFR's readings, while the picture is obviously way too warm.


Another thing I noticed is luminance being way too bright in HCFR. My 19" TFT which is ~130cd/m² according to GretagMacBeth i1Match (came with the colorimeter), has a luminance of 370cd/m² according to HCFR. While this results in awesome contrast ratios, the sideeffect of being useless for calibration is quite annoying.

What version of the software did you get your eyeone.dll's from? Maybe they changed something in the recent versions that causes the wrong values?


edit: Turns out it was my version of i1Match that was too old. Updating from 3.6.1 to 3.6.2 did not only correct the wrong values, the frequency of readings is about twice as fast now!

 

[hoops10]

When using the eye-one LT, did you install all the software that came with it or just the diagnostic part that it said to in the dummies guide?

 

[008]



Quote:
Originally Posted by hinagiku /forum/post/15467545


I think I have the same problem. Just bought me an eye-one display2 myself and went almost insane trying to configure my LE40A656 with HCFR. Especially red is extremely low according to HCFR's readings, while the picture is obviously way too warm.


Another thing I noticed is luminance being way too bright in HCFR. My 19" TFT which is ~130cd/m² according to GretagMacBeth i1Match (came with the colorimeter), has a luminance of 370cd/m² according to HCFR. While this results in awesome contrast ratios, the sideeffect of being useless for calibration is quite annoying.

What version of the software did you get your eyeone.dll's from? Maybe they changed something in the recent versions that causes the wrong values?


edit: Turns out it was my version of i1Match that was too old. Updating from 3.6.1 to 3.6.2 did not only correct the wrong values, the frequency of readings is about twice as fast now!

What do you mean by the i1 match, is that the software that comes with the eye one ?


Thanks

 

[stash64]



Quote:
Originally Posted by hoops10 /forum/post/15468407


When using the eye-one LT, did you install all the software that came with it or just the diagnostic part that it said to in the dummies guide?

Why would you need to install the X-Rite software if using HCFR ?

 

[stash64]

It almost seems I had a similar problem recently with my i1 and HCFR. I calibrated a new Panasonic BD player and got grayscale to look fine, but the colors were way off. After calibrating, I checked the black level using the AVS black level pattern and I could see a very reddish hue in the near-black vertical bars.


The oddity for me was that I had used the i1 and HCFR many times prior to this with very acceptable results. It had been more than 6 months since I had last used the i1, but nothing else had changed. I was running the same version of HCFR with the same settings and on the same TV. My i1 was under warranty and I am waiting for a replacement. It will be interesting to see if this fixes the problem. Perhaps there was a bad batch of i1 meters with a tendency to drift significantly over a short time period.

 

[aaron_hinni]

I have a JVC-RS1, Eye One Display LT, and am using HCFR as well. I did a grayscale reading with the sensor pointed at the screen, and at 100% white, my measurements came out:


red 95%, green 99%, blue 113%


What is weird to me is that I cannot do any sort of color measurements. I get "no data from sensor" when trying to do a color measurement from a 100% red and 100% green windows. I did manage to get some measurements from a blue window though, but the ftL reading was pretty low (like 1.01 for the blue window compared to 13.5-14 for the white window).


Are any of you with a similar setup able to do color measurements?

 

[cvearl]



Quote:
Originally Posted by stash64 /forum/post/15484194


Why would you need to install the X-Rite software if using HCFR ?

REFER TO THIS...

Performing the Greyscale & Colour Calibration section of THIS guide...

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457


Part 1: Installation and Setup


STEP 1.1: The software we will be using to measure our greyscale is called 'ColorHCFR'. The first step is to download and run the ColorHCFR software v2.0.1 installation package (8mb) and choose all of the default installation options. Make sure that your PC is set to 32 bit colour depth too otherwise some of the graphs may not display properly. To check this on Windows XP right-click on your Desktop, select "Properties", then the "Settings" tab, and make sure "Highest (32 bit)" is set in the "Color quality" drop-down list.


Note: The latest version of ColorHCFR is always available on the official ColorHCFR page, but as these instructions are written for ColorHCFR Release 2.0.1 (May 2008 timeframe) we cannot guarantee that the screenshots and instructions in our guide will still continue to work if you use a newer version of the software.


STEP 1.2: Install the sensor software using all of the default options. All we're interested in is the one driver (*.dll) file. To make sure you're using the latest version of the driver we recommend you do not use the CD that came in the box but instead visit the manufacturer website:

Eye-One users only: The Eye-One software can be downloaded at http://www.xrite.com . Only the i1Diagnostics software needs to be downloaded and installed. http://www.xrite.com/product_overvie...SoftwareID=506


STEP 1.3: Copy the sensor driver to where you installed ColorHCFR (it must be in the same directory as ColorHCFR.exe):

Eye-One users only: Copy the "EyeOne.dll" file from \\Program Files\\X-Rite\\i1Diagnostics to \\Program Files\\ColorHCFR\\. As of this writing, the latest "EyeOne.dll" file is at version 3.4.0.131 (3,203,072 byte file dated June 26, 2007).


AND SO ON...

 

[Kelvin1965S]



Quote:
Originally Posted by aaron_hinni /forum/post/15486571


I have a JVC-RS1, Eye One Display LT, and am using HCFR as well. .......Are any of you with a similar setup able to do color measurements?

What screen do you have? I currently have a Greywolf II screen and gave up trying to calibrate 'off screen' until I get my new Beamax screen fitted. With the Greywolf (and apparently with other 'retroreflective' screens) the light from the PJ bounces straight back to the PJ, meaning that my I1 only picks up a very weak reflection as by definition it has to be at an angle to the screen and not in it's own shadow. I got only 2fL at 100 IRE on 'Cinema 1' mode on my AE3000 (one of the dimmer but more accurate modes). When I placed my small screen sample at the spot the I1 was aimed at, the readings went up to 6fL even though the new screen is supposed to be lower gain than the Greywolf (1.8 vs 1.5).


If you have a 'typical' Matt White screen, then I'm sorry for wasting your time as I can't help with the RS1 specifically.

 

[aaron_hinni]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S /forum/post/15486934


What screen do you have? I currently have a Greywolf II screen and gave up trying to calibrate 'off screen' until I get my new Beamax screen fitted. With the Greywolf (and apparently with other 'retroreflective' screens) the light from the PJ bounces straight back to the PJ, meaning that my I1 only picks up a very weak reflection as by definition it has to be at an angle to the screen and not in it's own shadow. I got only 2fL at 100 IRE on 'Cinema 1' mode on my AE3000 (one of the dimmer but more accurate modes). When I placed my small screen sample at the spot the I1 was aimed at, the readings went up to 6fL even though the new screen is supposed to be lower gain than the Greywolf (1.8 vs 1.5).


If you have a 'typical' Matt White screen, then I'm sorry for wasting your time as I can't help with the RS1 specifically.

I have a DIY blackout cloth screen. Given that I can get 13-14ftL with a 100 IRE white window, I assume I am having some other issue. Thanks anyway!

 

[Kelvin1965S]



Quote:
Originally Posted by aaron_hinni /forum/post/15487015


I have a DIY blackout cloth screen. Given that I can get 13-14ftL with a 100 IRE white window, I assume I am having some other issue. Thanks anyway!

Oh well, worth a try, but I guess that isn't your problem.

I'm going to try to calibrate (or at least check how far out) my colours once I get the new Matt White screen up. This will be more like the screen you have, so if I discover anything useful then, I'll post back.

 

[stash64]



Quote:
Originally Posted by cvearl /forum/post/15486642


REFER TO THIS...

Performing the Greyscale & Colour Calibration section of THIS guide...

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457

Thanks. I thought you were referring to the Eye-One Match software. The information you provided was a good trouble-shooting check, and hopefully it helped someone. I'd forgotten that the DLL file needed to be in the ColorHCFR folder... but this was not my problem. I did have the latest DLL file already in place and it was the same file I used when I was getting good results.


I did notice there are two other DLL files in the i1 diagnostics folder. I wonder if these should also be moved into the ColorHCFR folder ?

 

[stash64]

Has anyone figured out a solution to this problem yet ??? I am still struggling with it and getting the same odd results, that being RED brightness is under-measured (about 40%) and GREEN and BLUE brightness is over-stated (about 10-15%).


Things I have tried:

> Re-installed HCFR software

> Downloaded "eyeone.dll" files and re-inserted new files in ColorHCFR folder

> Ran calibration with original AVCHD pattern disk and also with latest version of AVCHD

> Ran calibration on both Panny BD player and Toshiba HD-DVD player

> Ran calibration with a second Eye-One meter


All above steps made no difference whatsoever. I still get values of red brightness that are significantly under-stated. This is very frustrating given that I am using all the same equipment and my original calibration results some 8 months ago were very pleasing. I'm bummed.

 

[cvearl]



Quote:
Originally Posted by stash64 /forum/post/15491652


Thanks. I thought you were referring to the Eye-One Match software. The information you provided was a good trouble-shooting check, and hopefully it helped someone. I'd forgotten that the DLL file needed to be in the ColorHCFR folder... but this was not my problem. I did have the latest DLL file already in place and it was the same file I used when I was getting good results.


I did notice there are two other DLL files in the i1 diagnostics folder. I wonder if these should also be moved into the ColorHCFR folder ?

Nope just the one. And only the one in the guide as stated is the best one. ColorHCFR provided feedback to the guide author I believe and that is the dll from Xrite compatible the most with the 2.01 ColorHCFR.


C.

 

[cvearl]



Quote:
Originally Posted by stash64 /forum/post/15514322


Has anyone figured out a solution to this problem yet ??? I am still struggling with it and getting the same odd results, that being RED brightness is under-measured (about 40%) and GREEN and BLUE brightness is over-stated (about 10-15%).


Things I have tried:

> Re-installed HCFR software

> Downloaded "eyeone.dll" files and re-inserted new files in ColorHCFR folder

> Ran calibration with original AVCHD pattern disk and also with latest version of AVCHD

> Ran calibration on both Panny BD player and Toshiba HD-DVD player

> Ran calibration with a second Eye-One meter


All above steps made no difference whatsoever. I still get values of red brightness that are significantly under-stated. This is very frustrating given that I am using all the same equipment and my original calibration results some 8 months ago were very pleasing. I'm bummed.

Probe might have gone to a better place.

Like Obiwan it has perhaps become more powerfull than it can possibly imagine. Have you ever dropped it? Is it kept in the laundry room or near a bathroom with a shower in it? Do you keep it covered? And so on.


Moisture can effect these over time and they drift. At least that is what I have read.


C.

 

[stash64]



Quote:
Originally Posted by cvearl /forum/post/15517656


Probe might have gone to a better place.

Like Obiwan it has perhaps become more powerfull than it can possibly imagine. Have you ever dropped it? Is it kept in the laundry room or near a bathroom with a shower in it? Do you keep it covered? And so on.


Moisture can effect these over time and they drift. At least that is what I have read.


C.

I've always kept the meter covered and in a cool, dry place. You may have missed the fact that I tried a second i1 meter and it is producing the same odd results as my original i1. My original meter was under warranty and X-Rite shipped out a replacement. Could it be my bad luck that both meters have a similar defect ? I kind of doubt it now. I'm going to try running a couple more sets of measurements tonight to see if I can figure this out. Thanks.

 

[hinagiku]

sorry for not answering earlier, was pretty busy last week.


using the correct dll only fixed the wrong readings in brightness, which was the only thing I checked that evening. looks like red is still getting the same -40% readings as described by others. my i1 is brand new as well

 

[stash64]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hinagiku sorry for not answering earlier, was pretty busy last week. using the correct dll only fixed the wrong readings in brightness, which was the only thing I checked that evening. looks like red is still getting the same -40% readings as described by others. my i1 is brand new as well

Perhaps there is a bad batch out there and I happened to get another one. I've done more troubleshooting and nothing has changed. Like you, my Red is measuring 40% too low (or in other words, about 60% on the grayscale reading). Just by "eye", I know this is wrong. I verified that my colors are good by popping in a DVE disc and using the color decoding filters. Red, Green, and Blue look to be 95% accurate or better. The main reason I know these latest HCFR readings are wrong is the "pinkish" hue in the near-black vertical bars of the black level pattern after I had calibrated to the erroneous color readings. Fortunately, I kept track of all my previous (good) video settings.


I'm still not completely convinced the fault is with the color-meter because I've used it for monitor calibration the last couple days and it seems to be producing good results. It's only when running with HCFR that the color (particularly RED) seems to be way off. I've ruled out the video equipment because I get the same results with my BD player and my HD-DVD player. I thought it could be my AVR, but I don't run the HD-DVD player through my AVR. I would like to try running v2.0 of HCFR to see if this is a v2.0.1 problem. I thought I was using V2.0.1 early in 2008, but perhaps not. Anybody have a link to v2.0.0 of HCFR ?


Hinagiku,


Out of curiousity, what equipment are you calibrating ? I have been trying to calibrate a new Samsung BD-35 running HDMI through a Harman Kardon AVR-354 to a Sony 55A3000 SXRD television. I'm running HCFR on a Vista 32-bit laptop.


Something just occurred to me. I wonder if this could be a Windows (Vista) drivers issue ??? It is the only variable that I am sure has changed in my calibration set-up. I've been using the same laptop all along, even when I was getting good results, but of course I've updated Vista many times since then.


AlluringReality,

If you happen to check this thread, would you mind or have time to post your settings for HCFR ? I believe you have a Sony SXRD (A3000) as I do.


Here are my "bad" HCFR files for both my Blu-Ray and HD-DVD player, for reference:

 

Under_Red_BD35.zip 0.890625k . file

 

Under_Red_HD_DVD.zip 0.8935546875k . file