AVS Forum banner

13601 - 13620 of 13764 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,262 Posts
When I choose BT.1886 I still get a flat gamma target. Can you post your References Preference pane please?

EDIT: I'm catching up. If I stay on black compensation gamma and override black with 0.061 from the target Y value in the black reference measurement I get the RGB values you shared.

So my next question then:

  • Where did you get 0.061 from and what would you expect to see it at? Presumably much closer to 0?
  • If I change to BT.1886 with 0.061 applied my measurements are now very far away. Is it better to correct from where I am, or reset and start again?
Ignore the 0.061. I opened your file and let it overwrite my preferences, but apparently the black override remains from before.
If your black measured 0 (either true black, or meter limitation) then BT.1886 is indeed the same as gamma 2.4.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
370 Posts
Ok, great. Thanks for confirming. I was very concerned that a) I’d missed a significant setting and b) I had a large amount of work still ahead of me.

I think I’d like to make another couple of passes of the gamma, is there anything else significant I should look at do you think?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
630 Posts
The black level bars were fine; they stopped on 16. I used the white clipping test and lowered the contrast so the other bars up to 253 were flashing (it was only three points down on the Contrast control). I tried it again and the same issue occurred. :(

I have a Vizio M7 Series Quantum 2020. I'm using the Calibrated Dark picture mode with the Warm color temperature. I have all of my settings set to the Rtings recommendations with all of the extra picture enhancements turned off; the only exception is my backlight is lower and the Full Array setting is on low instead of High.
Hi,

Well, if brightness and contrast look good then it just be what Dominic said - which is the 20 point grayscale controls on the tv are off. Apparently, this is not as uncommon as one would think with new model tvs.

What I would do next is to change a number of points in an extreme fashion and then do a 10 point grayscale run aft each change and see where on the graph was affected.

So, something like this:

(a) do a baseline grayscale run with the default 20 point settings and save it.
(b) For the 20 %/IRE control, increase the Blue a lot and then do a new grayscale run.
(c) See where the difference is between the baseline and the new graph. There should be a noticeable bump in blue that shows up.
(d) Reset the 20 point settings back to their defaults and repeat steps b and c for 30, 40, 50, etc.

It may be that the 20 point controls simply don't work as expected and you'll need to stick with the 2 point controls. I have not looked at Rtings review but I would have expected them to mention if this were the case. But then again, different firmware and different specific model sizes (50 vs. 75) can behave differently.


--tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,262 Posts
Hi,

Well, if brightness and contrast look good then it just be what Dominic said - which is the 20 point grayscale controls on the tv are off. Apparently, this is not as uncommon as one would think with new model tvs.

What I would do next is to change a number of points in an extreme fashion and then do a 10 point grayscale run aft each change and see where on the graph was affected.

So, something like this:

(a) do a baseline grayscale run with the default 20 point settings and save it.
(b) For the 20 %/IRE control, increase the Blue a lot and then do a new grayscale run.
(c) See where the difference is between the baseline and the new graph. There should be a noticeable bump in blue that shows up.
(d) Reset the 20 point settings back to their defaults and repeat steps b and c for 30, 40, 50, etc.

It may be that the 20 point controls simply don't work as expected and you'll need to stick with the 2 point controls. I have not looked at Rtings review but I would have expected them to mention if this were the case. But then again, different firmware and different specific model sizes (50 vs. 75) can behave differently.


--tom
You should be able to streamline this by boosting a few points (e.g., 10, 50, 90) and make one sweep instead of three. Based on the result, you can estimate the remaining points fairly accurately.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Dear all,
If I am informed correctly HCFR does support the x-rite I1Pro2 but not the i1Pro3 (yet). I currently own a SpyderX, but want to purchase an additional sensor that is more accurate in measuring colors. As the i1Pro2 is out of production, is or will it also become possible to use the i1Pro3 with HCFR?

Thanks in advance,

Jean
 

·
Registered
JVC NX5 at 140", Denon X4200W (5.1.2) with Axiom Audio speakers + Bass Shakers
Joined
·
2,491 Posts
Dear all,
If I am informed correctly HCFR does support the x-rite I1Pro2 but not the i1Pro3 (yet). I currently own a SpyderX, but want to purchase an additional sensor that is more accurate in measuring colors. As the i1Pro2 is out of production, is or will it also become possible to use the i1Pro3 with HCFR?

Thanks in advance,

Jean
Unlikely. At least officially, HCFR is abandoned.

Someone else unofficially added SpyderX support. Will someone unofficially add i1 Pro 3 support?

Your guess is as good as mine, but seeing as the i1 Pro 3 is a much more expensive meter and a whole new communication API than even the i1 Pro 1/2 I would not count on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,262 Posts
Unlikely. At least officially, HCFR is abandoned.

Someone else unofficially added SpyderX support. Will someone unofficially add i1 Pro 3 support?

Your guess is as good as mine, but seeing as the i1 Pro 3 is a much more expensive meter and a whole new communication API than even the i1 Pro 1/2 I would not count on it.
Is the i1Pro3 even supported by ArgyllCMS? That would be a pre-requisite.
 

·
Registered
JVC NX5 at 140", Denon X4200W (5.1.2) with Axiom Audio speakers + Bass Shakers
Joined
·
2,491 Posts
Is the i1Pro3 even supported by ArgyllCMS? That would be a pre-requisite.
No, and it wont be until someone donates an i1 Pro 3 to Graeme. Plus he does only 1 new release per year if that these days.

i1 Pro 1/2 used the same driver and spoke the same API so it was a very natural and easy transition for him to the i1 Pro 2. I mean i1 Pro Rev.E was the i1 Pro 2.

Also i1 Pro 2 has i1 Pro legacy mode, so software that only supports the i1 Pro can actually automatically use the i1 Pro 2 in legacy mode. I believe this is how JVC Autocal works as it supports both the i1 Pro 1 and Pro 2. It has no need for any communication or reading mode beyond the basic legacy mode.

With i1 Pro 3 all of this changed. New driver, new API, no more legacy mode.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
108 Posts
I'm working on updating HCFR.

I've updated the source code to Visual Studio 2019 and can compile both the debug and release versions. I've spent quite a bit of time with the latest Argyll code so I'm about to update the Argyll components in HCFR. I hope to have it done in a few weeks. This will make HCFR compatible with the sensors that Argyll supports,

After that, I think the next step is to update the user interface. The menu system is from 2005 and is difficult to work with. A modernized interface and internals will put HCFR in a good place for future development.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,262 Posts
I'm working on updating HCFR.

I've updated the source code to Visual Studio 2019 and can compile both the debug and release versions. I've spent quite a bit of time with the latest Argyll code so I'm about to update the Argyll components in HCFR. I hope to have it done in a few weeks. This will make HCFR compatible with the sensors that Argyll supports,

After that, I think the next step is to update the user interface. The menu system is from 2005 and is difficult to work with. A modernized interface and internals will put HCFR in a good place for future development.
Good to hear!
Are you starting with 3.5.1.4 or the unofficial 3.5.1.5 (HCFR 2019) by bberu?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
108 Posts
I started from 3.5.1.4 since it was the last official release and it looked like there were some issues with bberu's release. I looked at bberu's code and will use useful bits as needed. I already did that on some changes needed with the Windows 10 SDK.

I need Zoyd to accept my changes to get it merged onto the main HCFR site. I've reached out to him and when I push the changes to SourceForge I will let him know to take a look. I will push an installer here as well so it can be tested while he looks at it. I only have an i1 Pro 2 and i1D3 to test here, so I will need help to make sure the Argyll code works as it's supposed to with other meters. As stated above, it will only work with meters supported by Argyll.

BTW, thanks to Dominic and everyone else for all of your support and keeping the HCFR community together the past few years. It's the reason I decided to work on this. I learned calibration with HCFR and want to give back to the community in my own way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,262 Posts
I started from 3.5.1.4 since it was the last official release and it looked like there were some issues with bberu's release. I looked at bberu's code and will use useful bits as needed. I already did that on some changes needed with the Windows 10 SDK.

I need Zoyd to accept my changes to get it merged onto the main HCFR site. I've reached out to him and when I push the changes to SourceForge I will let him know to take a look. I will push an installer here as well so it can be tested while he looks at it. I only have an i1 Pro 2 and i1D3 to test here, so I will need help to make sure the Argyll code works as it's supposed to with other meters. As stated above, it will only work with meters supported by Argyll.

BTW, thanks to Dominic and everyone else for all of your support and keeping the HCFR community together the past few years. It's the reason I decided to work on this. I learned calibration with HCFR and want to give back to the community in my own way.
I have the SpyderX, Spyder5, i1Display3, i1Pro2, plus some older meters, and will be glad to help with testing.

The only issue specific to bberu’s version that I noticed, is the fairly long lag when trying to connect the meters for the first time.

The UI of HCFR may not look very pretty, but I find it very functional.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
108 Posts
I agree with the functionality and the look. Imagine in the appearance menu you could select a theme of "Windows 10" instead of "Office 2003." That's what I'm initially shooting for.

It will really help future development to get "New Menu" from 2004 and DDE out of the code.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,003 Posts
Couple questions, I am going to profile my ID3 with my EFI 2000 (i1Pro2), and had some questions about the post in this thread since its a little older. Also I am having issues getting HCFR to recognize my meter, I found a post saying meters with a model number of XR-UF are stripped down OEM meters and have issues and need a flag changed. But my meter has a model of EFI-ULZW , which seems to be a full i1Pro2. JVC Autocal and Xrite software saw the meter fine (uninstalled the xrite software to avoid conflicts). Anything I need to do to get it to work other than drivers which have been installed?

Found the issue, xrite driver was overriding my argyll driver. Also, now that I have been reading, am I better off using DisplayCal or HCFR to profile my ID3 with the i1Pro2? I have never done either....

Below is the post I was using for the profiling with HCFR:
1. Set up a calibration DVD to display the primary (red, green, blue) colors and white windows sequentially.
Use a 10% window at 100% amplitude. <-----Can I use full screen patterns for this since I will primarily be using the meter with JVC Autocal correction?

2. Put both the D3 and the Pro on the TV panel so the meter sensor holes are vertically in the center of the window and right next to one another. (Or you can do each meter sequentially so that both are reading the same area.) <-- Assuming this doesn't matter for projector, just use my usual 2ft distance

3. Set up HCFR for the i1 Pro meter and do a normal sensor black level calibration (Measures/Sensor/Calibrate...)
I do not see this option, is it talking about the sensor calibration using the white swatch that comes with the sensor?
4. Run the primary colors and the white windows reading the data with HCFR set up for the i1 Pro meter. Save the run as something like "pro meter calibration.chc"
Is white windows just a grayscale run?
5. Set up HCFR for the D3 meter and do a normal sensor black level an 80% white level sync calibration (Measures/Sensor/Calibrate...)
Where is this option, I do not see anything under measure > sensor with the ID3 hooked up?
6. Run the primary colors and the white windows reading the data with HCFR set up for the D3 meter. Save the run as something like "D3 meter calibration.chc"

7. Display the i1 Pro results on your computer and check the "Reference measure" box in the upper right hand corner.

8. Display the D3 results and click Advanced/Meter correction file/Create using existing reference measures.

9. Display the D3 results and click Advanced/Meter correction file/Save meter correction file... Save it with a name like "D3 calibration matrix 08-17-2014"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
630 Posts
I'm working on updating HCFR.

I've updated the source code to Visual Studio 2019 and can compile both the debug and release versions. I've spent quite a bit of time with the latest Argyll code so I'm about to update the Argyll components in HCFR. I hope to have it done in a few weeks. This will make HCFR compatible with the sensors that Argyll supports,

After that, I think the next step is to update the user interface. The menu system is from 2005 and is difficult to work with. A modernized interface and internals will put HCFR in a good place for future development.
Thanks very much for this. I am also a long time HCFR user going back to 2008. I recall the first time that the community went through the abandonment phase and the numerous discussions everyone had of how to keep it alive. Zoyd's effort over the years has been very much appreciated.

I also do software development (C/C++/Java) but I have no experience with Windows development unfortunately. I'd be willing to learn if I didn't already have a full time job. :) But I'll certainly be willing to do beta testing and offer feedback on changes.

cheers,


--tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,262 Posts
Below is the post I was using for the profiling with HCFR:
1. Set up a calibration DVD to display the primary (red, green, blue) colors and white windows sequentially.
Use a 10% window at 100% amplitude. <-----Can I use full screen patterns for this since I will primarily be using the meter with JVC Autocal correction?
Not a problem, but...
2. Put both the D3 and the Pro on the TV panel so the meter sensor holes are vertically in the center of the window and right next to one another. (Or you can do each meter sequentially so that both are reading the same area.) <-- Assuming this doesn't matter for projector, just use my usual 2ft distance
It’s crucial that both meters are reading the same spot on the screen; otherwise the profile won’t be accurate. Preferably aim both at the centre of the screen.
3. Set up HCFR for the i1 Pro meter and do a normal sensor black level calibration (Measures/Sensor/Calibrate...)
I do not see this option, is it talking about the sensor calibration using the white swatch that comes with the sensor?
There are two parts to the calibration, white and black. You can skip the white as it’s not relevant for display calibration.
4. Run the primary colors and the white windows reading the data with HCFR set up for the i1 Pro meter. Save the run as something like "pro meter calibration.chc"
Is white windows just a grayscale run?
The Primary sweep includes white. It’s all you need.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,003 Posts
It’s crucial that both meters are reading the same spot on the screen; otherwise the profile won’t be accurate. Preferably aim both at the centre of the screen.
Curious how you would get them in the same exact spot since in my case I have to use different mounts (ID3 can mount to tripod directly, My i1Pro2 Mount). Even with 2 tripods you would still be sorta off right?


There are two parts to the calibration, white and black. You can skip the white as it’s not relevant for display calibration.
So this is talking about the button that says calibrate, I will have to try it again it calling out white or black, I just put it on the plate(not my pic btw just example)?

3081727
Thanks Dominic, couple follow ups if you do not mind ^^^^.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,262 Posts
Thanks Dominic, couple follow ups if you do not mind ^^^^.
To have both meters aim at the centre of the screen, use a very small windowed pattern (I use 1% window) and adjust the angle and height of the meters to get the maximum readings (the two should read about the same). Then return the pattern size to what you normally use.
There's a "Skip white tile calibration option" which you can click Yes.
3081731
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,003 Posts
To have both meters aim at the centre of the screen, use a very small windowed pattern (I use 1% window) and adjust the angle and height of the meters to get the maximum readings (the two should read about the same). Then return the pattern size to what you normally use.
There's a "Skip white tile calibration option" which you can click Yes.
View attachment 3081731
Great idea on the meters! So I would just place the i1Pro2 on the calibration plate without the white tile visible, hit calibrate and skip the white tile calibrate?
 
13601 - 13620 of 13764 Posts
Top