[Rhysduk]

Evening,

After a week of mountain biking up in the Peak District and doing some short videos on my phone, think it's time for a HD camcorder.


It's has to be small (to go in my backpack - but they are mostly all the same compact size these days from what i can see anyway) and good with fast motion action/sport.

I've always been a Canon fan if that helps in anyway, not that I HAVE to have a Canon.

If someone can point me in the right direction for reviews or what to get, it will be appreciated. Seriously out of the loop on Camcorders, not that I was ever in it

the Canon M406 looks very nice at £480, would this be suitable for general (holiday) and some sport/action filming?

 

[Ungermann]

All I can say that if you plan to mount it on a bike then get a camcorder with CCD sensor, not with CMOS.

 

[Unlikely Suspect]

Why not CMOS? Are there any 50/60p CCD cameras?

 

[Rhysduk]

Thanks for the replys. I'm not looking for a helmet cam hence why I mentioned the Canon M406.


I want a dedicated HD Camcorder.

 

[Crazzzy Stoner]

The canon M4XXX series are great cams. Panasonics series record in 60p while the M4XXX series only recorders in 30p or 60i, so the pannys are nice for sports since they have 60p. Pannys quality in light is better then canons, while canons are better in low light. If you are planning on using an external mic the canons have a aux in while most of the pannys lack.

 

[Unlikely Suspect]

The Panasonic SD800 does not have mic input, but the 900 and 90 series do.

 

[Rhysduk]

Thanks guys! I think I'm moving towards a Panasonic rather than a Canon due to it's superior picture.

I would like an external mic input just incase I need one in the future.

So what's the difference between the 90 and 900? I'm assuming they all take spare batteries.

 

[Unlikely Suspect]

The 90 is a "lower end" camera, and does not have the superior picture quality of the 900 (although people who have bought it are very happy with the quality compared to the price). The 90 only has one single sensor, while the 900 (like the 800) has the 3xCMOS setup.


The Canon M4xxx has superior low light performance, and I do believe it has better video quality than the Panasonic SD/TM90 in decent lighting as well.


All cameras these days take spare batteries, I would think. They are usually expensive, though.

 

[Ronomy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unlikely Suspect The 90 is a "lower end" camera, and does not have the superior picture quality of the 900 (although people who have bought it are very happy with the quality compared to the price). The 90 only has one single sensor, while the 900 (like the 800) has the 3xCMOS setup. The Canon M4xxx has superior low light performance, and I do believe it has better video quality than the Panasonic SD/TM90 in decent lighting as well. All cameras these days take spare batteries, I would think. They are usually expensive, though.

The only area the M4x models did better than the TM90 was in low light and the TM90 is no slouch in that area either. The TM90 was better in all other areas. Check out the reviews on camcorderinfo.com.

 

[Unlikely Suspect]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronomy The only area the M4x models did better than the TM90 was in low light and the TM90 is no slouch in that area either. The TM90 was better in all other areas. Check out the reviews on camcorderinfo.com.

The SD/TM90 has a wider angle lens and longer zoom, but the latter usually means reduced video quality. From the comparison videos I've seen, the Canon M4xxx completely destroys the Panasonic SD/TM90 in low light.


Do you have a direct link to somewhere the SD/TM90 and the M4xxx are being compared?

 

[Ronomy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unlikely Suspect The SD/TM90 has a wider angle lens and longer zoom, but the latter usually means reduced video quality. From the comparison videos I've seen, the Canon M4xxx completely destroys the Panasonic SD/TM90 in low light. Do you have a direct link to somewhere the SD/TM90 and the M4xxx are being compared?

Yes I said the new Canon is better in low light. Canons are the best this year due to the lower res and large chip they are using compared to last years model M30 which the TM90 is way better than. The TM90s resolution measured higher and the new Canons measure lower res than last years canons. Just better low light. Camcorderinfo.com tested both and they have the TM90 ahead of the M40. They are right next to each other tho so very close.


I have used the TM90 indoors and its still decent in low light. Search on Youtube for the HDC TM90 and you will see some low light tests. Also like I said read the reviews on Camcorderinfo.com for both models.


Don't get me wrong I almost bought the M41 but I didn't like the zoom range when I compared the two at Best Buy. Plus its noticable larger and I would have wanted to add a wide conversion lens. It would have been too big for me. My old Sony DVCAM was big and I just didn't want another big camera and a conversion lens hanging off it...but I did want the wide/long zoom on the TM90.


I also liked how smooth and sharp pans are at 1080p/60. There is some minor color noise like grain in very low lighting conditions but I never video with levels that low. The pictures I took at the Football hall of fame in some dark areas looks clean and bright...like I was standing there. I am happy with the results. Don't feel like I am missing anything.


I still think either camera would satisfy anybody. I just liked the features on the TM90 more...coming from a 3 chip Sony prosumer camera.


If you don't want to deal with 1080p/60 files then the Canon might be best for some people.


Cheers,


Ron

 

[Unlikely Suspect]

I agree that the wider angle lens and longer zoom on the Panasonic SD/TM90 makes it a very interesting buy, and my impression is that the video quality is pretty good too.


But still, from the samples I've seen it doesn't come close to the Canon M4xxx in low light.


So it basically comes down to what you value the most. I would probably recommend the SD/TM90 to most people, as it seems a bit more versatile, and its low light performance isn't completely crap.


But again, it doesn't really come close to the Canon in low light.


If I was filthy rich I'd get both

Sometimes excellent low light performance can be a huge advantage. But in most situations one would probably be using the Panasonic.

 

[dan4081]

Those were the exact features I agonized over when making my decision.


Wider/better Zoom versus better low light/dual card slots.


The wider angle of view and unbelievable image stabilization while zoomed won me over but I am sure I would have been happy with either cam.


Buyers need to weigh what is most important to them.


Combine the Panasonic wide angle of view and image stabilization with the Canons low-light and I'd be all over it....as long as the price is reasonable of course....

 

[Ronomy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan4081 Those were the exact features I agonized over when making my decision. Wider/better Zoom versus better low light/dual card slots. The wider angle of view and unbelievable image stabilization while zoomed won me over but I am sure I would have been happy with either cam. Buyers need to weigh what is most important to them. Combine the Panasonic wide angle of view and image stabilization with the Canons low-light and I'd be all over it....as long as the price is reasonable of course....

Exactly! The price is a factor too. If you are going to shoot in rooms with a candle then yes the Canon is awesome but that 43mm wide lens is just too narrow.


The TM90 measured 800 x 800 lines in 1080p. The Canon was 800 x 600 in 1080I.


I wanted 1080p/60 because when I shoot scenery my pans are still sharp. 24p would judder too much for my liking.


The low light capabilities don't suck at all on my TM90. Completely happy with the results.

 

[dan4081]

Forgot about one more plus for the Canon that really was big to me.

The availability of inexpensive third party batteries.


I still went with the Panasonic and not being able to find an inexpensive long lasting 3rd party battery is annoying, but I knew about it before my purchase.


Something to consider when weighing your options.