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no way in 3 years!

next year or early 2005 but not later.

its always the same.company's don't tell us the trues because they think it can stop business from technologies that they have for sale NOW.

blue ray is already at the marked in japan.

technology is ready.its just a question for the studios because there is this red laser proposal from warner and they need to find out which system is the best.

i can tell you beside warner no other studio like the red laser hd proposal for prerecorded software.
 

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The article states:


"It took about three years to develop DVD, and new players and prerecorded discs probably won't arrive in final form for at least three years."


Notice the phrase "new players". The player is obviously not three years away since it's here now. So how informed is the author?


Ted
 

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Let's just say this. If they wait three years, then they are going to force people to pounce on HBO/Showtime to get fixes, cannabalizing a considerable amount of money for dvd and IP rights maintenance. I don't see that working. Moreover the technology to easily handle HD is seeping to ever more hands, with WM9 giving the quick solution and the best solutions is only awaiting large optical storage media. Which demand will force out. We will have a new system by the end of next year provided that the economy doesn't crashes.


Darius
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
"no way in 3 years!

next year or early 2005 but not later.

its always the same.company's don't tell us the trues because they think it can stop business from technologies that they have for sale NOW.

blue ray is already at the marked in japan.

technology is ready.its just a question for the studios because there is this red laser proposal from warner and they need to find out which system is the best.

i can tell you beside warner no other studio like the red laser hd proposal for prerecorded software."


But where is the big market for HD-DVD. It will be some demand in the US and Japan, but just a fraction opposed to the demand for DVD when it was released. I think there is no rush to push this product before the dvd-cash-flow goes away. I want HD-DVD more than anyone, but just can't see it on the horizon. I hope I am wrong.


Per Johnny
 

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"George Washington chopped down the cherry tree..."

"Paul invented Christianity..."

"Greedo shot first..."


Tawk amoungst youhselfs...


-Pie
 

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The format war is the most devastating part of this.


DVD-9 (which I hate), BluRay (which I like) and Toshiba's blue-ray-that-isn't BluRay create chaos for the CE makers, the studios, et al.


Mark
 

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The format wars probably make things come sooner. If we all just waited for the DVD Forum then they might just bicker about copy protection and licensing for a few more years until the DVD market was more saturated.


But things like M$'s WM9 discs are already coming out now and that keeps the pressure on. And if hardware players start appearing in a DVD9 format for some decent standard then we will all probably also start putting our own recordings on that same format.


That will certainly light a fire under them. ;)


- Tom
 

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Not to mention D-VHS!


I'm sure it's *this* that truly strikes fear into the hearts of the DVD Forum. I'm not just talking a bit rate of 29 mbps here! It's a whole lot more... bulky plastic casing, fragile magnetic tape, requirement to rewind, lack of extra features, no alternative audio track... And above all, it already has, what, 3 good movies out!


I can hear their knees quaking from here.


-Pie
 

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Hi All,

I going to drive right in here!

Everybody thinks that Hollywood should pick the format for HD-DVD. Gentlemen, it us the consumers who should embrace the correct HD-DVD format. HD-DVD should be more then just a playback solution it should also be a recording format. Right now Blu-Ray is the only format that makes any since because it supports the current standards including Firewire transport streams, MPEG2 compression, and ATSC OTA braodcast standard.


As far as that windows crap, it requires a 3 GHz CPU to properly decode it HD stream and it still will not match the quiality of MPEG2. ,It would take a lot more CPU horsepower to encode in the WM9 format. To use WM9 compression to record OTA or Sat HD program, a WM9 recorder would first have to decompress the MPEG2 data and re-compress it to WM9. It does not make any since to go though all of these decoding and encoding process just to use WM9 for recoding HD.


So guys you either jump for Blu-Ray or forget about recording HD on DVD.

That my 2 cents worth.
 

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Quote:
As far as that windows crap, it requires a 3 GHz CPU to properly decode it HD stream and it still will not match the quiality of MPEG2. ,It would take a lot more CPU horsepower to encode in the WM9 format. To use WM9 compression to record OTA or Sat HD program, a WM9 recorder would first have to decompress the MPEG2 data and re-compress it to WM9. It does not make any since to go though all of these decoding and encoding process just to use WM9 for recoding HD.
That's not really correct. First, you can bet 3+ Ghz boxes will be common a year from now and are available now if you want them. But by then newer video cards will likely have WM9 (and MPEG4?) hardware accel built into them just as they do for MPEG-2/DVD now. This wll probably lower the speed requirements by 1/3 or so.


And if anything becomes a common playback format for HDPC's then hardware players will also probably become available. I tend to be an Xvid/MPEG-4 fan but if the available standalone HDTV players ended up being WM9 I would switch in a heartbeat.


And you don't have to encode anything in WM9 or MPEG-4 real time. All captured ATSC streams are already compressed quite nicely in MPEG-2 and can be stored on disk that way. But if you do want to re-encode them to a more efficient format then you don't need a super fast PC. You just start it up when you go to bed and get it in the morning.


And it is a total myth that WM9 or MPEG-4 can't reach the same quality levels. If you spend the bits you can get the quality, at least on most encoders. And it does not take too much to match the quality of most broadcast recordings. It's not like we have access to the original master tapes anyway to encode from.


- Tom
 

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As painful as it is, I'd just prefer to wait for a blue laser solution. Nothing is better than bits in the end, and I'd prefer more bits myself. No matter how you slice it or dice it, even with very advanced video compression, are you going to have anything like special features and multiple full bit rate audio streams on a DVD-9 disc along with a full length film which looks good? I just cannot see it.


I'm happy with D-Theater and D-VHS recording and broadcast material until then. A DVD-9 format is just going to make it that much harder to get out a high bit rate format. If studios and CE companies support the DVD-9 format heavily, they aren't going to turn around and support another format a couple years later and just confuse their own market. And the other option is that nothing much happens with DVD-9 and they wait for the blue laser solution and it makes HD look bad.
 

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I want to make clear: I am anti-DVD-9. It's a joke in my opinion, at best a stopgap curiosity like D-Theater.


But I don't think trbarry that the format war helps at all. The studios will release next to nothing in any format if that format is not likely the winner. Period.


They will wait until there is a winner and then start repurposing content en masse to collect our money.


I am a BluRay fan, btw Bruce. I like it best, too. But the Toshiba blue-laser solution is also a good choice and there is something to be said for going to MPEG-4 and taking advantage of several years of additional thinking. A 20+ megabit/sec stream of MPEG-4 is very likely going to be richer / better quality than the same stream in MPEG-2.


I realize that wouldn't work with your Mitsubishi TV, however. But I'm not sure it'll matter, because by the time all this gets sorted out, you'll have a new set anyway. I am inclined to think that even if HD-DVD isnt 3 years away, the real exciting part where there are movies in quantity that don't suck and players that are
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Dean Roddey
As painful as it is, I'd just prefer to wait for a blue laser solution. Nothing is better than bits in the end, and I'd prefer more bits myself. No matter how you slice it or dice it, even with very advanced video compression, are you going to have anything like special features and multiple full bit rate audio streams on a DVD-9 disc along with a full length film which looks good? I just cannot see it.


I'm happy with D-Theater and D-VHS recording and broadcast material until then. A DVD-9 format is just going to make it that much harder to get out a high bit rate format. If studios and CE companies support the DVD-9 format heavily, they aren't going to turn around and support another format a couple years later and just confuse their own market. And the other option is that nothing much happens with DVD-9 and they wait for the blue laser solution and it makes HD look bad.
Dean,

WM9 is supposed to allow for about a 2 hour movie at 1080p that can match blu-ray with mpeg-2. This has been verified by the Dvd-forum. WMApro should allow for better than full bit Dts all on one DVD-9. Now if you wanted a lot of extra features, one could easily include a second disk just as we do today.


The more bits argument is not a really valid one. It would only be an issue if WM9 was anywhere close in quality and final encoded size to mpeg-2. It is not, but instead blows it away on both counts. Mpeg-2 is completely outdated.


I do not see a pressing need for blu-ray, and I think probably others will think the same thing. This will work to the consumers advantage because it will force the powers that be to speed up the red-tape in having the larger media standard widely available.


hgodwin
 

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There is one major difference now compared to format changes of the past. In the past, the primary limiting factor for picture quality onscreen has always been the quality of the source material. No matter how many hundreds of thousands of dollars you've spent on your Home Theater, you've been stuck with Lorez and/or overcompressed source material. Small improvements in picture quality of the source were important because they translated directly into proportional improvements onscreen.


This time it's different. Now, the limiting PQ factor is not the source material, it's the projector or display device. WM9 at 8-10 Mb/sec VBR can provide video quality that will surpass the capability of a 9" CRT. Sure, WM9 at 30 Mb/sec or MPEG2 at 100Mb/sec will be better. But if you can't see a significant difference by the time it makes it to your own screen, it's just wasted bandwidth.


Blue Ray high capacity storage is great, but so long as 99+% of us are using audio and video gear that can't fully resolve what's already possible on an HD-DVD9 movie, what's the point? It would just raise the price for everyone, while providing a tiny benefit for the very few.


The most sensible approach would be high quality, inexpensive, "new format" 960p - 1080p on DVD9, with a niche market of higher-priced "Blueperbit" Blue-Ray HD for those few who are in constant quest of larger size.


Joe
 

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MikeM has already put in writing you will be able to purchase a HD-DVD in the US by Christmas. Right Mike? (Now, you didnt say what price it had to be, but I assume you will be the first to buy no matter what it costs?)


Dave
 
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