The HD-A2 does NOT have analog 5.1 (or 7.1) out. It coverts all the new audio codecs to LPCM and passes it via the HDMI cable. You have to have a HDMI receiver/pre-pro that can accept LPCM audio via HDMI and you are in. I does have a SPDIF output. It will covert any of the DD+ or TrueHD tracks to full bit rate DTS and pass it via the SPDIF. Obviously this will not have the sound quality of the HDMI LPCM output. Your best bet would be a really cheap HD-A1 with 5.1 analog outs or the new HD-XA2. BTW, I use the HD-A1 analog outs with my Outlaw 990 pre/pro. I simply purchased a few RCA Y-adaptors and sent the surround L to L rear and the surround R to R rear. Sounds great!
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HD-DVD (Tosh HDA2) Dobly TrueHD without SPDIF? Legacy stereo (7.1)?
Hi there,
I'm poked around this end of the forums and had a question that doesnt seem obvious..
The HDA2.. from what I've read has TrueHD, but only in 5.1 channels (is this correct?).. From what I have read as well, TrueHD can only be utilized on older receivers (non-HDMI) if you have a SPDIF input on them?
This unit doesnt appear to have SPDIF outputs..
If this is the case, are there other HD-DVD players with SPDIF outputs.. I seem to only see the Toshiba, at least on the highly rated category..
And as for the 5.1, if this is true that wouldn't be ideal with my unit, as I have a 7.1 channel Onkyo receiver.
Side thought: Dual Format players seem to be coming out this year.. at first it appeared HD-DVD was/is winning the war, but with devices like the LG BH-100 soon to be realeased for what appears to be $1199, perhaps this will change? IE: maybe better to wait awhile before jumping on the HD-DVD format bandwagon as I was thinking.
Cheers
I'm poked around this end of the forums and had a question that doesnt seem obvious..
The HDA2.. from what I've read has TrueHD, but only in 5.1 channels (is this correct?).. From what I have read as well, TrueHD can only be utilized on older receivers (non-HDMI) if you have a SPDIF input on them?
This unit doesnt appear to have SPDIF outputs..
If this is the case, are there other HD-DVD players with SPDIF outputs.. I seem to only see the Toshiba, at least on the highly rated category..
And as for the 5.1, if this is true that wouldn't be ideal with my unit, as I have a 7.1 channel Onkyo receiver.
Side thought: Dual Format players seem to be coming out this year.. at first it appeared HD-DVD was/is winning the war, but with devices like the LG BH-100 soon to be realeased for what appears to be $1199, perhaps this will change? IE: maybe better to wait awhile before jumping on the HD-DVD format bandwagon as I was thinking.
Cheers
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Ugh... I don't even know where to start...
Quote:
Originally Posted by markm75 /forum/post/0
Hi there,
I'm poked around this end of the forums and had a question that doesnt seem obvious..
The HDA2.. from what I've read has TrueHD, but only in 5.1 channels (is this correct?).. From what I have read as well, TrueHD can only be utilized on older receivers (non-HDMI) if you have a SPDIF input on them?
This unit doesnt appear to have SPDIF outputs..
If this is the case, are there other HD-DVD players with SPDIF outputs.. I seem to only see the Toshiba, at least on the highly rated category..
And as for the 5.1, if this is true that wouldn't be ideal with my unit, as I have a 7.1 channel Onkyo receiver.
Side thought: Dual Format players seem to be coming out this year.. at first it appeared HD-DVD was/is winning the war, but with devices like the LG BH-100 soon to be realeased for what appears to be $1199, perhaps this will change? IE: maybe better to wait awhile before jumping on the HD-DVD format bandwagon as I was thinking.
Cheers
Ugh... I don't even know where to start...
Thanks for the reply.. still a little confused.. so with a SPDIF output on an HD TrueHD Player.. I can get the TrueHD soundstream, but it will degrade the quality of the signal and not be 8 distinct channels?
And if the player has 8 analog outs.. the other newer model you mentioned for instance.. I'd just hook those up 1 to 1 to my Onkyo 7.1 receiver and then I would have the full TrueHD sound quality and discrete channels? (I think my Onkyo HTS780 has analog inputs).
Here was the website where I originally found the info pertaining to the SPDIF input, I guess I read it wrong at first, thinking it implied I'd get full 8 channel support/quality.. I wouldnt care so much about the quality if it would at least do 8 channels...
Which leads me to a final question.. any good HDMI switching (HDCP) Audio Receivers out there yet.. good but not expensive.. I think I paid $500 for my whole system ($299 receiver).
Thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Gutierrez /forum/post/0
The HD-A2 does NOT have analog 5.1 (or 7.1) out. It coverts all the new audio codecs to LPCM and passes it via the HDMI cable. You have to have a HDMI receiver/pre-pro that can accept LPCM audio via HDMI and you are in. I does have a SPDIF output. It will covert any of the DD+ or TrueHD tracks to full bit rate DTS and pass it via the SPDIF. Obviously this will not have the sound quality of the HDMI LPCM output. Your best bet would be a really cheap HD-A1 with 5.1 analog outs or the new HD-XA2. BTW, I use the HD-A1 analog outs with my Outlaw 990 pre/pro. I simply purchased a few RCA Y-adaptors and sent the surround L to L rear and the surround R to R rear. Sounds great!
Thanks for the reply.. still a little confused.. so with a SPDIF output on an HD TrueHD Player.. I can get the TrueHD soundstream, but it will degrade the quality of the signal and not be 8 distinct channels?
And if the player has 8 analog outs.. the other newer model you mentioned for instance.. I'd just hook those up 1 to 1 to my Onkyo 7.1 receiver and then I would have the full TrueHD sound quality and discrete channels? (I think my Onkyo HTS780 has analog inputs).
Here was the website where I originally found the info pertaining to the SPDIF input, I guess I read it wrong at first, thinking it implied I'd get full 8 channel support/quality.. I wouldnt care so much about the quality if it would at least do 8 channels...
Which leads me to a final question.. any good HDMI switching (HDCP) Audio Receivers out there yet.. good but not expensive.. I think I paid $500 for my whole system ($299 receiver).
Thanks
You might consider reading
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=738511
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=738511
I am not sure if the a2 is really limited to 5.1 the problem is the disks themselves are encoded in 5.1 for the most part at this point.
I have not ran across any true hd 7.1 titles yet. I think the descent on blu-ray is.
most source material is not encoded in 7.1 the reciever just processes it. Since you are not going to find any recievers that decode true hd yet it is not really an a2 issue.
short story long I have an a2 with an hdmi reciever and can listen to true hd if it is there. I could not use 7.1 though because I have to use what is on the disc as the dvd player is decoding it.
are there any players out there that have a 7.1 analog out? from the research I did true hd in 7.1 is just not really that availible yet. Unless my research was off base.
I have not ran across any true hd 7.1 titles yet. I think the descent on blu-ray is.
most source material is not encoded in 7.1 the reciever just processes it. Since you are not going to find any recievers that decode true hd yet it is not really an a2 issue.
short story long I have an a2 with an hdmi reciever and can listen to true hd if it is there. I could not use 7.1 though because I have to use what is on the disc as the dvd player is decoding it.
are there any players out there that have a 7.1 analog out? from the research I did true hd in 7.1 is just not really that availible yet. Unless my research was off base.
7.1 does not really exist yet. I have a 7.1 system and still don't give any value add to source devices that claim to have it.
Hope this helps...
Discrete Encoding - Each Channel is recoded, by the studio, as a unique signal path. Therefore, a Dolby Digital 5.1 recording has only 6 unique channels.
The 5.1 format is the industry standard and this how most titles are published. If you disconnect any channel during play back, you will not hear that portion of the soundtrack.
6.1 Formats are accomplished in various ways. The first major release of a 6.1 format was one of the later StarWars films (I think Phantom Menace?) and it is a Dolby EX format.
The rear center channel is a mono signal that is derived from the left and right surround channels and reproduced by matrix decoding processes. This format is (as far as I know) not a discrete process since the master recording is still only a 5.1 source. If you were to disconnect a the rear center, you will still hear all of the soundtrack. Most 5.1 signals can be matrixed into 6.1 using DolbyEx, some are intentionally recorded this way and would sound best listening using this format.
7.1 formats are accomplished, at this point in time, using the Dolby PL IIx algorithm by taking a 5.1 signal and deriving a stereo rear surround (Lb & Rb) channel. This format is (as far as I know) not a discrete process since the master recording is still only a 5.1 source. Since the surround rear channels are stereo, they are different from each other; thus if you were to disconnect either surround rear channel you would not hear a portion of the logically decoded rear channel, BUT if you were to disconnect both rear channels, you are still getting the entire 5.1 soundtrack.
Eventually the studios will burn 7.1 audio and publish it as discrete signal paths. Most movies being filmed today are being recorded for this purpose, but are not yet available to the home theater market. This is why most multi-channel players (HD, DVD-A, SACD) have 5.1 analog output along with HDMI. So when the 7.1 becomes available, the player is already able to support the format.
Discrete Encoding - Each Channel is recoded, by the studio, as a unique signal path. Therefore, a Dolby Digital 5.1 recording has only 6 unique channels.
The 5.1 format is the industry standard and this how most titles are published. If you disconnect any channel during play back, you will not hear that portion of the soundtrack.
6.1 Formats are accomplished in various ways. The first major release of a 6.1 format was one of the later StarWars films (I think Phantom Menace?) and it is a Dolby EX format.
The rear center channel is a mono signal that is derived from the left and right surround channels and reproduced by matrix decoding processes. This format is (as far as I know) not a discrete process since the master recording is still only a 5.1 source. If you were to disconnect a the rear center, you will still hear all of the soundtrack. Most 5.1 signals can be matrixed into 6.1 using DolbyEx, some are intentionally recorded this way and would sound best listening using this format.
7.1 formats are accomplished, at this point in time, using the Dolby PL IIx algorithm by taking a 5.1 signal and deriving a stereo rear surround (Lb & Rb) channel. This format is (as far as I know) not a discrete process since the master recording is still only a 5.1 source. Since the surround rear channels are stereo, they are different from each other; thus if you were to disconnect either surround rear channel you would not hear a portion of the logically decoded rear channel, BUT if you were to disconnect both rear channels, you are still getting the entire 5.1 soundtrack.
Eventually the studios will burn 7.1 audio and publish it as discrete signal paths. Most movies being filmed today are being recorded for this purpose, but are not yet available to the home theater market. This is why most multi-channel players (HD, DVD-A, SACD) have 5.1 analog output along with HDMI. So when the 7.1 becomes available, the player is already able to support the format.
This makes sense.. My Onkyo has the mono rear channels.. I was aware of that part at least, actually just realized that not long ago (I've had the unit for over a year now
![]()
I also noticed my unit only has 5.1 analog inputs (6 ports).. so, in general, if a receiver at least had the 8 analog ports and a dvd player had 8 out on analog, I'd be good to go as well? I dont know if such a receiver exists and if it did I'd have to buy a new one anyway so I guess getting one with HDMI switching would be the key or would the new receiver have to say TrueHD as well?
Know of any good HDMI receivers (say under $400) that would meet this future need and have good HDMI switching (for a projector)?
I still dont quite get what the dolby site was referring to when it said the TrueHD could go the spdif route.. Are they implying that the signal would go through but it would be degraded in quality and wouldnt be true 7.1 discrete? Wouldnt the same thing apply to the optical port? (They make no mention of the optical pathway, I guess due to the compression aspect?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desmo888 /forum/post/0
Hope this helps...
Discrete Encoding - Each Channel is recoded, by the studio, as a unique signal path. Therefore, a Dolby Digital 5.1 recording has only 6 unique channels.
The 5.1 format is the industry standard and this how most titles are published. If you disconnect any channel during play back, you will not hear that portion of the soundtrack.
6.1 Formats are accomplished in various ways. The first major release of a 6.1 format was one of the later StarWars films (I think Phantom Menace?) and it is a Dolby EX format.
The rear center channel is a mono signal that is derived from the left and right surround channels and reproduced by matrix decoding processes. This format is (as far as I know) not a discrete process since the master recording is still only a 5.1 source. If you were to disconnect a the rear center, you will still hear all of the soundtrack. Most 5.1 signals can be matrixed into 6.1 using DolbyEx, some are intentionally recorded this way and would sound best listening using this format.
7.1 formats are accomplished, at this point in time, using the Dolby PL IIx algorithm by taking a 5.1 signal and deriving a stereo rear surround (Lb & Rb) channel. This format is (as far as I know) not a discrete process since the master recording is still only a 5.1 source. Since the surround rear channels are stereo, they are different from each other; thus if you were to disconnect either surround rear channel you would not hear a portion of the logically decoded rear channel, BUT if you were to disconnect both rear channels, you are still getting the entire 5.1 soundtrack.
Eventually the studios will burn 7.1 audio and publish it as discrete signal paths. Most movies being filmed today are being recorded for this purpose, but are not yet available to the home theater market. This is why most multi-channel players (HD, DVD-A, SACD) have 5.1 analog output along with HDMI. So when the 7.1 becomes available, the player is already able to support the format.
This makes sense.. My Onkyo has the mono rear channels.. I was aware of that part at least, actually just realized that not long ago (I've had the unit for over a year now
I also noticed my unit only has 5.1 analog inputs (6 ports).. so, in general, if a receiver at least had the 8 analog ports and a dvd player had 8 out on analog, I'd be good to go as well? I dont know if such a receiver exists and if it did I'd have to buy a new one anyway so I guess getting one with HDMI switching would be the key or would the new receiver have to say TrueHD as well?
Know of any good HDMI receivers (say under $400) that would meet this future need and have good HDMI switching (for a projector)?
I still dont quite get what the dolby site was referring to when it said the TrueHD could go the spdif route.. Are they implying that the signal would go through but it would be degraded in quality and wouldnt be true 7.1 discrete? Wouldnt the same thing apply to the optical port? (They make no mention of the optical pathway, I guess due to the compression aspect?)
Enjoy what you have and save your money for now. Until source data (movies/music) is recorded in discrete 6.1 or 7.1 you don't need to contemplate a new purchase. Potentially, end users may have another 2 years or more to wait for the studios to do this. This is plenty of time for architecture/format/technology etc... to change.
At this point in time, my understanding is that Dolby TrueHD will be sent as stereo signal through SPDIF.
Nothing is 7.1 discrete.... yet.
If you choose to use your SPDIF your source will transmit an encoded stereo signal that will be processed by your decoder (receiver, processor etc..) and the audio will be reproduced according to the algorithm selected.
If you choose to use your Toslink connection your source will transmit an encoded stereo signal that is converted (downmixed is the technical term) from Dolby Digital to DTS that will be processed by your decoder (receiver, processor etc..) and the audio will be reproduced according to the algorithm selected.
I don't know anything about SPDIF being degraded in quality. As far as I know, it is just a different pathway with a specifc set of limitations.
Quote:
I also noticed my unit only has 5.1 analog inputs (6 ports).. so, in general, if a receiver at least had the 8 analog ports and a dvd player had 8 out on analog, I'd be good to go as well? I dont know if such a receiver exists and if it did I'd have to buy a new one anyway so I guess getting one with HDMI switching would be the key or would the new receiver have to say TrueHD as well?
Enjoy what you have and save your money for now. Until source data (movies/music) is recorded in discrete 6.1 or 7.1 you don't need to contemplate a new purchase. Potentially, end users may have another 2 years or more to wait for the studios to do this. This is plenty of time for architecture/format/technology etc... to change.
Quote:
I still dont quite get what the dolby site was referring to when it said the TrueHD could go the spdif route.. Are they implying that the signal would go through but it would be degraded in quality and wouldnt be true 7.1 discrete? Wouldnt the same thing apply to the optical port? (They make no mention of the optical pathway, I guess due to the compression aspect?)
At this point in time, my understanding is that Dolby TrueHD will be sent as stereo signal through SPDIF.
Nothing is 7.1 discrete.... yet.
If you choose to use your SPDIF your source will transmit an encoded stereo signal that will be processed by your decoder (receiver, processor etc..) and the audio will be reproduced according to the algorithm selected.
If you choose to use your Toslink connection your source will transmit an encoded stereo signal that is converted (downmixed is the technical term) from Dolby Digital to DTS that will be processed by your decoder (receiver, processor etc..) and the audio will be reproduced according to the algorithm selected.
I don't know anything about SPDIF being degraded in quality. As far as I know, it is just a different pathway with a specifc set of limitations.
Based on this and other info.. I guess I'd have to just live with the lack of ability of discrete 7.1 (when it comes around) if I stick with my receiver (my only real concern right now)...
I have found a few receivers out there that have 8 analog inputs And have HDMI too (8 analogs = future proof in terms of 8 channels); They run $350 to start, street pricing. This makes me debate whether I want to spend $140 on an HDMI switcher, when I could get a new receiver for $350 with 2 HDMI support.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desmo888 /forum/post/0
Enjoy what you have and save your money for now. Until source data (movies/music) is recorded in discrete 6.1 or 7.1 you don't need to contemplate a new purchase. Potentially, end users may have another 2 years or more to wait for the studios to do this. This is plenty of time for architecture/format/technology etc... to change.
At this point in time, my understanding is that Dolby TrueHD will be sent as stereo signal through SPDIF.
Nothing is 7.1 discrete.... yet.
If you choose to use your SPDIF your source will transmit an encoded stereo signal that will be processed by your decoder (receiver, processor etc..) and the audio will be reproduced according to the algorithm selected.
If you choose to use your Toslink connection your source will transmit an encoded stereo signal that is converted (downmixed is the technical term) from Dolby Digital to DTS that will be processed by your decoder (receiver, processor etc..) and the audio will be reproduced according to the algorithm selected.
I don't know anything about SPDIF being degraded in quality. As far as I know, it is just a different pathway with a specifc set of limitations.
Based on this and other info.. I guess I'd have to just live with the lack of ability of discrete 7.1 (when it comes around) if I stick with my receiver (my only real concern right now)...
I have found a few receivers out there that have 8 analog inputs And have HDMI too (8 analogs = future proof in terms of 8 channels); They run $350 to start, street pricing. This makes me debate whether I want to spend $140 on an HDMI switcher, when I could get a new receiver for $350 with 2 HDMI support.
S/PDIF (Sony/Philips Digital InterFace) is used for the optical Toslink connection (only choice on the A2) and also for the coaxial RCA connection (choices available on XA2 and previous A1 & XA1 players). It refers to the format of the serial data with clock encoded on the data bits. Derived from earlier AEU format on shielded twisted pair.
So it would be better to use the 5.1 analog multichannel ouputs on the X2 than the toslink (my receiver is the Onkyo DS696, so it's 5.1) to get TruHD sound? I guess that would not affect the DD/DTS tracks on standard DVD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desmo888 /forum/post/0
Enjoy what you have and save your money for now. Until source data (movies/music) is recorded in discrete 6.1 or 7.1 you don't need to contemplate a new purchase. Potentially, end users may have another 2 years or more to wait for the studios to do this. This is plenty of time for architecture/format/technology etc... to change.
At this point in time, my understanding is that Dolby TrueHD will be sent as stereo signal through SPDIF.
Nothing is 7.1 discrete.... yet.
If you choose to use your SPDIF your source will transmit an encoded stereo signal that will be processed by your decoder (receiver, processor etc..) and the audio will be reproduced according to the algorithm selected.
If you choose to use your Toslink connection your source will transmit an encoded stereo signal that is converted (downmixed is the technical term) from Dolby Digital to DTS that will be processed by your decoder (receiver, processor etc..) and the audio will be reproduced according to the algorithm selected.
I don't know anything about SPDIF being degraded in quality. As far as I know, it is just a different pathway with a specifc set of limitations.
So it would be better to use the 5.1 analog multichannel ouputs on the X2 than the toslink (my receiver is the Onkyo DS696, so it's 5.1) to get TruHD sound? I guess that would not affect the DD/DTS tracks on standard DVD.
Somewhat related.. Is it possible to use HDMI for the video and different connection for the audio with the HD-A2? I'd like to use the HDMI for video to my Z3 and an optical cable to my receiver (which has no HDMI) for the audio.
I would think the analogs would have better sound, IE: lossless.. but of course, say a track was 7.1 (when that day comes), you'd lose the extra discrete channels, or maybe they just get downmixed somehow, into 5.1...
Anyone else know?
My line of thought (for my future purchase) is to attain a receiver with an HDMI port, not a passthrough type, or the new unit at least have 8 analog inputs, so its ready for HD-DVD or Dual Format players that have 8 analog outs, or 7.1 through the HDMI port. But I guess even with just a single HDMI port that does audio (if it didnt have 8 analog inputs), this may not be enough to do TrueHD from what I've read on here?
As a side note (sorry a little offtrack): I also am not sure if this new receiver, if it had upconvert/upscale of analog video through HDMI, would be any benefit? IE: if using HD HDMI cable, if this would somehow upscale the SD stations, making them look better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldorak /forum/post/0
So it would be better to use the 5.1 analog multichannel ouputs on the X2 than the toslink (my receiver is the Onkyo DS696, so it's 5.1) to get TruHD sound? I guess that would not affect the DD/DTS tracks on standard DVD.
I would think the analogs would have better sound, IE: lossless.. but of course, say a track was 7.1 (when that day comes), you'd lose the extra discrete channels, or maybe they just get downmixed somehow, into 5.1...
Anyone else know?
My line of thought (for my future purchase) is to attain a receiver with an HDMI port, not a passthrough type, or the new unit at least have 8 analog inputs, so its ready for HD-DVD or Dual Format players that have 8 analog outs, or 7.1 through the HDMI port. But I guess even with just a single HDMI port that does audio (if it didnt have 8 analog inputs), this may not be enough to do TrueHD from what I've read on here?
As a side note (sorry a little offtrack): I also am not sure if this new receiver, if it had upconvert/upscale of analog video through HDMI, would be any benefit? IE: if using HD HDMI cable, if this would somehow upscale the SD stations, making them look better.
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