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HD penetration in Japan?

1183 Views 22 Replies 11 Participants Last post by  dr1394
I'm just curious and if you could throw some numbers at me or give me some link(s) or something, that would be great.


I'm wondering what is the HD penetration in Japan, in terms of number of HD sets sold and owned, HD programming available, most popular HD sets, and all that good stuff.


Also, could you answer this question for me for the US as well?


Thanks.l
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For US HDTV programming, try this:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=164671
I Googled up a few sites. Since Japan has the same system as the US, six megahertz stations, it is good to see that they are doing so well. The second URL shows a pocket HDTV set. Must have to wear one of those antennas you wear on your head for this.


The third site talks about how they are putting yellow stickers on analog sets to alert shoppers to the coming transition. Now that is something we should be doing here.

http://www.dibeg.org/news/news-4/news-e4.htm#dn060e
http://www.gizmodo.net/gadgets/porta...-go-143548.php
http://hdtv.engadget.com/2005/10/25/...dcasts-demise/
judging by the few Japanese "movies" I've seen, the "penetration" isn't very deep..... ;)
Thanks a lot, guys, for sending me off on an Internet tangent...


Just for the heck of it, I drifted over to the DTV section of the NHK (Japan Broadcasting Corp.) website. (NHK is Japan's public broadcaster.) There's some very fascinating information about the challenges of converting their OTA system to digital. According to the site, their biggest challenges seem to be their rugged terrain and their clogged RF spectrum, which makes it more difficult to introduce DTV by adding paired channels as we are doing in the U.S.


So, in some ways, they're a little behind us -- by December of 2003, only Tokyo, Osaka and Nagoya had OTA DTV, but it is being rolled out elsewhere and should reach 60% of the country by the end of '05, according to NHK.


Oh, and they're still dreaming: according to the site, an NHK research lab is experimenting with a "Super Hi-Vision" format that's a whopping 7680 x 4320 pixels!!!!! There's also talk of mobile DTV reception by '06 and even "home server-based" broadcasting by 2007.


Here's the link to NHK's DTV section: http://www.nhk.or.jp/digital/en/


(Your computer may ask you to download Japanese language support, but most of this section is in English and you should be able to get away without doing the download.)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieSS
I Googled up a few sites. Since Japan has the same system as the US, six megahertz stations, it is good to see that they are doing so well. The second URL shows a pocket HDTV set. Must have to wear one of those antennas you wear on your head for this.
That's good to know, I wasn't aware Japan used our system.


I hope Japan pulls out of their economic slump soon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solfan
That's good to know, I wasn't aware Japan used our system.
They don't. Japan uses ISDB, not ATSC. The countries currently using ATSC are the United States, Canada, Mexico, and South Korea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solfan
That's good to know, I wasn't aware Japan used our system.


I hope Japan pulls out of their economic slump soon.
Japan uses a version of NTSC-M for OTA analogue, which is similar to the US NTSC-M. However Japan doesn't use the 7.5 IRE pedestal (i.e. black level and blanking are the same, unlike in the US) and I believe that a different stereo audio system is employed. However the same basic 525/60, 3.58MHz NTSC chroma system is used, and the Japanese and US analogue OTA systems (into which a digital OTA system will have to fit if it uses the same bands) are based on 6MHz RF channels - unlike Europe which uses 7 or 8MHz channels for 625/50, 4.43MHz PAL or SECAM.


However when it comes to OTA digital (HD via antennae) the Japanese didn't go ATSC (as the US has) but instead they waited a couple more years, and instead chose an OFDM based system called ISDB (using MPEG2 for video compression AIUI) Japan is entirely 1080/60i (previously 1030/60i ISTR) with no 720/60p for broadcast use AFAIK.


They already had analogue HD (using the MUSE system), then digital HD via their BS and CS satellite systems, so they had HD long before (since the late 80s/early 90s with MUSE?) they had OTA HD. I'm not sure what modulation and carriage scheme is used for the Japanese BS and CS satellite broadcasts - though they are MPEG2 based.


When they ceased the MUSE Analogue HD satellite services each MUSE receiver owner was compensated with a US$1000 payment I believe.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dline
Thanks a lot, guys, for sending me off on an Internet tangent...


Just for the heck of it, I drifted over to the DTV section of the NHK (Japan Broadcasting Corp.) website. (NHK is Japan's public broadcaster.) There's some very fascinating information about the challenges of converting their OTA system to digital. According to the site, their biggest challenges seem to be their rugged terrain and their clogged RF spectrum, which makes it more difficult to introduce DTV by adding paired channels as we are doing in the U.S.


So, in some ways, they're a little behind us -- by December of 2003, only Tokyo, Osaka and Nagoya had OTA DTV, but it is being rolled out elsewhere and should reach 60% of the country by the end of '05, according to NHK.


Oh, and they're still dreaming: according to the site, an NHK research lab is experimenting with a "Super Hi-Vision" format that's a whopping 7680 x 4320 pixels!!!!! There's also talk of mobile DTV reception by '06 and even "home server-based" broadcasting by 2007.


Here's the link to NHK's DTV section: http://www.nhk.or.jp/digital/en/


(Your computer may ask you to download Japanese language support, but most of this section is in English and you should be able to get away without doing the download.)
Worth remembering that Japan launched HD in the late 80s/early 90s - but used satellite rather than terrestrial OTA for delivery. They have had HD longer as a public service than any other country. Their original HD system used on satellite was 1030ish /60i using MUSE analogue compression.


Their 1030/60i production system (aka HiVision) was tweaked to 1080/60i (because the production gear was readily available) and formed the basis of one of the ATSC video standards, though the US and Japan use very different OTA HD digital systems.


(I believe the 1030i original standard influenced the ALiS plasma design - which is 1024i - and unusual in plasma design in that it displays in an interlaced fashion I believe)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneals2000
Worth remembering that Japan launched HD in the late 80s/early 90s - but used satellite rather than terrestrial OTA for delivery. They have had HD longer as a public service than any other country. Their original HD system used on satellite was 1030ish /60i using MUSE analogue compression.


Their 1030/60i production system (aka HiVision) was tweaked to 1080/60i (because the production gear was readily available) and formed the basis of one of the ATSC video standards, though the US and Japan use very different OTA HD digital systems.


(I believe the 1030i original standard influenced the ALiS plasma design - which is 1024i - and unusual in plasma design in that it displays in an interlaced fashion I believe)
MUSE was more of a test than anything. It was a constant repeats of programs on one channel. I would not call it full blown HD service. Once their MUSE proposal was shut down in US, they really stopped investing in it, as US was going for all digital HD.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneals2000
Japan uses a version of NTSC-M for OTA analogue, which is similar to the US NTSC-M. However Japan doesn't use the 7.5 IRE pedestal (i.e. black level and blanking are the same, unlike in the US) and I believe that a different stereo audio system is employed. However the same basic 525/60, 3.58MHz NTSC chroma system is used, and the Japanese and US analogue OTA systems (into which a digital OTA system will have to fit if it uses the same bands) are based on 6MHz RF channels - unlike Europe which uses 7 or 8MHz channels for 625/50, 4.43MHz PAL or SECAM.


However when it comes to OTA digital (HD via antennae) the Japanese didn't go ATSC (as the US has) but instead they waited a couple more years, and instead chose an OFDM based system called ISDB (using MPEG2 for video compression AIUI) Japan is entirely 1080/60i (previously 1030/60i ISTR) with no 720/60p for broadcast use AFAIK.


They already had analogue HD (using the MUSE system), then digital HD via their BS and CS satellite systems, so they had HD long before (since the late 80s/early 90s with MUSE?) they had OTA HD. I'm not sure what modulation and carriage scheme is used for the Japanese BS and CS satellite broadcasts - though they are MPEG2 based.


When they ceased the MUSE Analogue HD satellite services each MUSE receiver owner was compensated with a US$1000 payment I believe.
No OTA HD in Japan until 2003. Digital HD was launched in 2000, until then there was only one MUSE analog channel.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CKNA
MUSE was more of a test than anything. It was a constant repeats of programs on one channel. I would not call it full blown HD service. Once their MUSE proposal was shut down in US, they really stopped investing in it, as US was going for all digital HD.
Yep - though the receivers were available I believe - though I guess they didn't have to pay out much in compensation when they ceased broadcasting.


It did have the undeniable advantage of creating an initial, if small, market for 1125/60i (aka 1080/60i and 1030/60i) HD production equipment though, so HD cameras, VTRs etc. at least existed when the ATSC system launched in the US.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneals2000
Worth remembering that Japan launched HD in the late 80s/early 90s - but used satellite rather than terrestrial OTA for delivery. They have had HD longer as a public service than any other country. Their original HD system used on satellite was 1030ish /60i using MUSE analogue compression.
I agree. Definitely worth remembering.


It's the digitalization of OTA broadcasting that's behind us, due to spectrum and terrain issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneals2000
It did have the undeniable advantage of creating an initial, if small, market for 1125/60i (aka 1080/60i and 1030/60i) HD production equipment though, so HD cameras, VTRs etc. at least existed when the ATSC system launched in the US.
That equipment also gave us analog HD video of some sports (basketball, Olympics) from the 80's in anticipation of HD becoming available any day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scowl
That equipment also gave us analog HD video of some sports (basketball, Olympics) from the 80's in anticipation of HD becoming available any day.
Indeed - footage from the LA Olympics exists in 1125/60i, and HiVision production gear become practical in some situations from the early 90s. The BBC and NHK produced a drama series in 1125/60i in the late 80s ("The Ginger Tree" - starring Samantha Bond - who played Moneypenny in the more recent Bond movies) and there were even a number of production units in Europe using the 60Hz system.


(I believe NHK based a unit here for a while - certainly they were at Wimbledon and I believe covered Carols from Kings in association with the BBC in the mid 90s. For a while there was a slight disparity - with high-end SD moving to CCD cameras, and HD still tube based, but HD CCDs appeared quite quickly - though initially they were noticably less sensitive and more prone to stuck pixels)


The Japanese driving HD production gear development also spurred other manufacturers like Philips/BTS and Thomson into developing HD production gear... (1250/50, 1050/60 and 1125/60 - some switchable)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeLV
They don't. Japan uses ISDB, not ATSC. The countries currently using ATSC are the United States, Canada, Mexico, and South Korea.
So why did Japan go to another system when they used the same system as the US for analog? And conversly why did Canada, Mexico and Korea chose our system? I thought Australia, Taiwan, Brazil and Argentina also were using ATSC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieSS
So why did Japan go to another system when they used the same system as the US for analog? And conversly why did Canada, Mexico and Korea chose our system? I thought Australia, Taiwan, Brazil and Argentina also were using ATSC.
I'm sure Canada and Mexico chose our system for obvious reasons -- they are, after all, right next to us and many viewers in border zones of those countries watch our stations, and vice versa.


In Japan, I'm guessing they went with their system because of their history of producing 1125-line analog video, which isn't part of ATSC if I remember correctly. My guess is that they stuck with 1125 because they had a lot of that kind of video in the can with that scan rate, whereas our plan in the U.S. was to shoot more and more shows on film so that we could make HD transfers in whatever formats were developed later.


Korea, I'm not sure about, but they sure do make a lot of the equipment we use to watch HD (Samsung, LG). Using our system probably gave them a nice little advantage in the U.S. marketplace.
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I think this is strong hint as to why Japan went with ISDB-T:

Quote:
partial reception: some of the services can be received by a lightweight, inexpensive narrow-band receiver.
It's designed for reliable broadcasting to cell phones and portable receivers.


It's sure one heck of an elaborate standard with three or four modulation schemes in the signal at the same time. I guess NTSC does too now that I think about it.
Whoops, I read the table wrong!


ISDB-T only uses OFDM but it does have three separate segments encoding at three different rates in the same signal which is pretty amazing.
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