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I am looking to build an HTPC, but have hit a bit of a quagmire.
Since I am a DirecTV user (wife is vehemently opposed to switching to Comcast and I somewhat agree with her), tuner cards are not an option for integrating live tv/pvr capabilities into the HTPC. I do have a Happaugue WinTV-HVR-950Q USB tuner stick for OTA transmissions which I have used with my laptop while on the road/in the city, but it won't pick up anything at home without a good rooftop antenna (also a no go with the wife; I will admit, they do look kind of ugly and we live in a town house so I would probably have to go thru the hassle of getting it approved by the HoA). So, I started researching capture devices that could be treated as if they were a tuner by the various PVR software programs (WMC, SageTV, NextPVR, MediaPortal, etc.).
The first one I came across was the Hauppauge HD PVR model 1212. The pro's for this option are that it can capture HD video (max. resolution 1080i/720p60) using an H.264 encoder with multiple format options at up to 13.5Mbps, surround sound (max. 5.1 channels) which it encodes as AC3, and most of the PVR software options support it, including WMC. The cons are that it can't do 1080p at all and offers no HDMI connection for capturing non-copy protected content without the need for an analog to digital conversion This is compounded by the fact that, in most cases, the source I would want to capture is digital so it is actually having to be converted from digital to analog (component) to be captured at which point it is converted back to digital. So the recording will never be quite as good as the original source. Also, because it requires an optical SPDIF cable to get surround sound, it is limited to stereo PCM or one of the lossy 5.1 formats (it can't do 5.1/7.1 lossless). This isn't necessarily that big of a deal since most of the sources that I would want to capture with this device do not have 5.1/7.1 channel lossless audio anyways. There are better methods of recording from Blu-ray disc if that is the goal.
The second option I came across was the Hauppauge Colossus model 1414. This is basically the equivalent of the HD PVR, except as a PCI express card rather than an external USB 2.0 device. It does have a couple advantages over the HD PVR: 1) it has an HDMI input which can be used for capturing non-copy protected content (XBox360, camcorder with HDMI out, etc.) and 2) it can record at up to 20 Mbps. Like the HD PVR, it can capture 5.1 channel surround sound and encode it as AC3 in the recording. And it is also compatible with almost all PVR software programs including WMC. Unfortunately, like the HD PVR, it can only record at a max. resolution of 1080i/720p60 (no 1080p at all) and, afaik, is limited to 5.1 surround sound despite the HDMI input (which should technically be capable of more channels and formats). Still, if you have the PCI express slot available, it is a small step above the HD PVR.
The third option I found was the Elgato EyeTV. This is basically the Mac-only equivalent of the HD PVR. While a decent option for Mac owners (its included software is somewhat better looking than the WinTV software included with the HD PVR/Colossus), the fact that it only runs on OSX, means that it has far less compatibility with the major 3rd party media center programs. Like the HD PVR, it uses the USB 2.0 interface and does not have an HDMI input. Its max. resolution is 1080i/720p (no 1080p at all) and its max bit rate is 15 Mbps. Unlike the HD PVR, it can only capture stereo (AAC-LC). With no real difference in video capture quality between the EyeTV and the HD PVR, no surround sound, and a lack of 3rd party media center support, I crossed this option off of the list, though I have been keeping an eye on Elgato for new and improved products due to the good reviews Mac users have given Elgato's devices.
At the time I did the initial research these were pretty much the only 3 options for an HD video capture device that would work with full PVR capabilities (EPG compatible with ability to schedule recordings ahead of time). While none of them had everything I was looking for, I had pretty much decided to go with the Colossus and/or HD PVR model 1212. I had planned to go with WMC as the PVR software with either/both of these devices serving as "tuners".
Then came news of the impending release of the Hauppauge HD PVR 2 Gaming Edition model 1480, which added an HDMI input and pass thru with the ability to record 1080p30 from a 1080p60 source, while passing 1080p60 thru to your display. However, due to the belief that WMC would not be supported by Windows 8, no WMC support was built into the driver for the HD PVR 2. Despite the fact that Microsoft has since decided to include WMC with Windows 8 Pro w/ Media Center (at additional cost), it does not appear that there will be any development from either Hauppauge or Microsoft that would allow the HD PVR 2 to be used as a tuner in WMC. So, the model 1480 was 1 step forward in terms of video quality, but 1 step back in terms of software compatibility. Also, the model 1480 lacks support for surround sound. So, I was still leaning towards going with the Colossus and/or HD PVR model 1212.
Shortly after the release of the HD PVR 2 Gaming Edition model 1480 came the release of the HD PVR 2 model 1512 and HD PVR 2 Gaming Edition Plus model 1504. Both are similar to the model 1480, except that they do support 5.1 channel surround sound over HDMI as well as toslink (optical SPDIF). The main differences between the two models being the accessories and software included. The model 1512 includes an IR blaster, a component cable for connecting to a set top box, and a copy of the WinTV software for scheduling recordings that the 1504 does not include. Meanwhile, the model 1504 includes cables for connecting the Xbox360 and PS3 and a free download for some Mac compatible software that the model 1512 does not. Like the model 1480, there are no drivers available that would allow you to use them as a tuner in WMC (and it is looking like there may never be). However, 3rd party and open source media center programs have started to develope drivers that will work for these devices. One already exists for MePo, though it is not officially supported yet. I also have seen at least one user of JRiver that has managed to get his working with assistance from the JRiver developer in charge of their Live TV and PVR functionality. MePo's Live TV/PVR software has already surpassed WMC's capabilites in many ways, though it is not quite as simple to set up. And, JRiver seems to be coming along on this front as well. It already has the best pure audio capabilities, but I would currently rate its TV integration at #3 behind MePo and WMC.
This opened a whole new can of worms. Originally i was pretty much set on using WMC for Live TV/PVR functionality. I hadn't decided whther to use WMC exclusively or use a combination of XBMC and WMC. But, with development of WMC seemingly nonexistent, I can't really justify making a hardware decision based on WMC compatibilty anymore. And, if you put WMC compatibility aside, it's clear that the HD PVR 2 model 1504 and 1512 are superior to the model 1212 and Colossus.
However, I still haven't convinced myself that even 1080p30 recordings would be satisfactory in the long run. While certainly better than 1080i, I have heard some experts/quasi-experts say that 30 fps isn't really good for anything. They say that it won't look right for movies/tv shows that were originally sourced at 24 fps (which I do occasionally watch from DirecTV). They also say it is too slow for sports footage and fast-action tv shows, resulting in motion blur. Some suggest that you are better off going with 720p60 for this kind of content. But, who wants to sacrifice that much resolution?
So now I am almost back to square one, except that I have expanded my search for any type of HD capture device, even if there is absolutely zero Live TV/PVR support. I figure that since getting rid of the DirecTV receivers was never really an option anyway, why not just use them for normal tv watching/recording and just get the best video capture hardware available for archiving the content on the DVR during off hours. All I would have to do is set the DVR up to playback shows and manually set the capture device to record. Since DirecTV already has an app that can be used to control the DVR remotely and I can use a remote desktop application to tell the capture device when to start/stop recording, this could work.
With that in mind, I have researched just about any type of capture device I can find. I've looked at the Roxio Game Capture Pro HD, the Elgato Game Capture HD, the Avermedia Live Gamer HD, Live Gamer HD 2, Live Gamer HD Portable, the Hauppauge HD PVR Rocket, and the Blackmagic Design Intensity USB 3.0/Thunderbolt. All will allow capture via both HDMI and component. All suffer from the same 1080p30 limit and none support 1080p24. Also, none of them will do surround sound (all are stereo only). And as intriguing as some of the added features that a few of them have (i.e. the Elgato has flashback recording, while the Live Gamer HD 2, Live Gamer HD portable, and HD PVR Rocket can all record to removable media without needing to be connected to the PC), none of them really fit my needs any better than the HD PVR 2 model 1512.
Just in the last week or two I heard about a new capture device from Avermedia called the ExtremeCap U3. This appears to be yet another step in the right direction...it can capture both 1080p24 and 1080p60. It also uses USB 3.0, which is considerably faster than USB 2.0. However, it is again crippled by a lack of surround sound support, being limited to stereo. However, this leads me to a question... Is it possible to capture video using one device and audio with another device and then combine the two feeds together without too much time/effort? Obviously this is possible on the professional level using professional equipment and software, but I'm not sure if it could be done with the ExtremeCap U3 for video and an HD PVR/Colossus or possibly a dedicated audio capture device capable of 5.1/7.1 lossless audio capture for audio. Would there be a way to guarantee A/V sync in this setup?
I am looking to build an HTPC, but have hit a bit of a quagmire.
Since I am a DirecTV user (wife is vehemently opposed to switching to Comcast and I somewhat agree with her), tuner cards are not an option for integrating live tv/pvr capabilities into the HTPC. I do have a Happaugue WinTV-HVR-950Q USB tuner stick for OTA transmissions which I have used with my laptop while on the road/in the city, but it won't pick up anything at home without a good rooftop antenna (also a no go with the wife; I will admit, they do look kind of ugly and we live in a town house so I would probably have to go thru the hassle of getting it approved by the HoA). So, I started researching capture devices that could be treated as if they were a tuner by the various PVR software programs (WMC, SageTV, NextPVR, MediaPortal, etc.).
The first one I came across was the Hauppauge HD PVR model 1212. The pro's for this option are that it can capture HD video (max. resolution 1080i/720p60) using an H.264 encoder with multiple format options at up to 13.5Mbps, surround sound (max. 5.1 channels) which it encodes as AC3, and most of the PVR software options support it, including WMC. The cons are that it can't do 1080p at all and offers no HDMI connection for capturing non-copy protected content without the need for an analog to digital conversion This is compounded by the fact that, in most cases, the source I would want to capture is digital so it is actually having to be converted from digital to analog (component) to be captured at which point it is converted back to digital. So the recording will never be quite as good as the original source. Also, because it requires an optical SPDIF cable to get surround sound, it is limited to stereo PCM or one of the lossy 5.1 formats (it can't do 5.1/7.1 lossless). This isn't necessarily that big of a deal since most of the sources that I would want to capture with this device do not have 5.1/7.1 channel lossless audio anyways. There are better methods of recording from Blu-ray disc if that is the goal.
The second option I came across was the Hauppauge Colossus model 1414. This is basically the equivalent of the HD PVR, except as a PCI express card rather than an external USB 2.0 device. It does have a couple advantages over the HD PVR: 1) it has an HDMI input which can be used for capturing non-copy protected content (XBox360, camcorder with HDMI out, etc.) and 2) it can record at up to 20 Mbps. Like the HD PVR, it can capture 5.1 channel surround sound and encode it as AC3 in the recording. And it is also compatible with almost all PVR software programs including WMC. Unfortunately, like the HD PVR, it can only record at a max. resolution of 1080i/720p60 (no 1080p at all) and, afaik, is limited to 5.1 surround sound despite the HDMI input (which should technically be capable of more channels and formats). Still, if you have the PCI express slot available, it is a small step above the HD PVR.
The third option I found was the Elgato EyeTV. This is basically the Mac-only equivalent of the HD PVR. While a decent option for Mac owners (its included software is somewhat better looking than the WinTV software included with the HD PVR/Colossus), the fact that it only runs on OSX, means that it has far less compatibility with the major 3rd party media center programs. Like the HD PVR, it uses the USB 2.0 interface and does not have an HDMI input. Its max. resolution is 1080i/720p (no 1080p at all) and its max bit rate is 15 Mbps. Unlike the HD PVR, it can only capture stereo (AAC-LC). With no real difference in video capture quality between the EyeTV and the HD PVR, no surround sound, and a lack of 3rd party media center support, I crossed this option off of the list, though I have been keeping an eye on Elgato for new and improved products due to the good reviews Mac users have given Elgato's devices.
At the time I did the initial research these were pretty much the only 3 options for an HD video capture device that would work with full PVR capabilities (EPG compatible with ability to schedule recordings ahead of time). While none of them had everything I was looking for, I had pretty much decided to go with the Colossus and/or HD PVR model 1212. I had planned to go with WMC as the PVR software with either/both of these devices serving as "tuners".
Then came news of the impending release of the Hauppauge HD PVR 2 Gaming Edition model 1480, which added an HDMI input and pass thru with the ability to record 1080p30 from a 1080p60 source, while passing 1080p60 thru to your display. However, due to the belief that WMC would not be supported by Windows 8, no WMC support was built into the driver for the HD PVR 2. Despite the fact that Microsoft has since decided to include WMC with Windows 8 Pro w/ Media Center (at additional cost), it does not appear that there will be any development from either Hauppauge or Microsoft that would allow the HD PVR 2 to be used as a tuner in WMC. So, the model 1480 was 1 step forward in terms of video quality, but 1 step back in terms of software compatibility. Also, the model 1480 lacks support for surround sound. So, I was still leaning towards going with the Colossus and/or HD PVR model 1212.
Shortly after the release of the HD PVR 2 Gaming Edition model 1480 came the release of the HD PVR 2 model 1512 and HD PVR 2 Gaming Edition Plus model 1504. Both are similar to the model 1480, except that they do support 5.1 channel surround sound over HDMI as well as toslink (optical SPDIF). The main differences between the two models being the accessories and software included. The model 1512 includes an IR blaster, a component cable for connecting to a set top box, and a copy of the WinTV software for scheduling recordings that the 1504 does not include. Meanwhile, the model 1504 includes cables for connecting the Xbox360 and PS3 and a free download for some Mac compatible software that the model 1512 does not. Like the model 1480, there are no drivers available that would allow you to use them as a tuner in WMC (and it is looking like there may never be). However, 3rd party and open source media center programs have started to develope drivers that will work for these devices. One already exists for MePo, though it is not officially supported yet. I also have seen at least one user of JRiver that has managed to get his working with assistance from the JRiver developer in charge of their Live TV and PVR functionality. MePo's Live TV/PVR software has already surpassed WMC's capabilites in many ways, though it is not quite as simple to set up. And, JRiver seems to be coming along on this front as well. It already has the best pure audio capabilities, but I would currently rate its TV integration at #3 behind MePo and WMC.
This opened a whole new can of worms. Originally i was pretty much set on using WMC for Live TV/PVR functionality. I hadn't decided whther to use WMC exclusively or use a combination of XBMC and WMC. But, with development of WMC seemingly nonexistent, I can't really justify making a hardware decision based on WMC compatibilty anymore. And, if you put WMC compatibility aside, it's clear that the HD PVR 2 model 1504 and 1512 are superior to the model 1212 and Colossus.
However, I still haven't convinced myself that even 1080p30 recordings would be satisfactory in the long run. While certainly better than 1080i, I have heard some experts/quasi-experts say that 30 fps isn't really good for anything. They say that it won't look right for movies/tv shows that were originally sourced at 24 fps (which I do occasionally watch from DirecTV). They also say it is too slow for sports footage and fast-action tv shows, resulting in motion blur. Some suggest that you are better off going with 720p60 for this kind of content. But, who wants to sacrifice that much resolution?
So now I am almost back to square one, except that I have expanded my search for any type of HD capture device, even if there is absolutely zero Live TV/PVR support. I figure that since getting rid of the DirecTV receivers was never really an option anyway, why not just use them for normal tv watching/recording and just get the best video capture hardware available for archiving the content on the DVR during off hours. All I would have to do is set the DVR up to playback shows and manually set the capture device to record. Since DirecTV already has an app that can be used to control the DVR remotely and I can use a remote desktop application to tell the capture device when to start/stop recording, this could work.
With that in mind, I have researched just about any type of capture device I can find. I've looked at the Roxio Game Capture Pro HD, the Elgato Game Capture HD, the Avermedia Live Gamer HD, Live Gamer HD 2, Live Gamer HD Portable, the Hauppauge HD PVR Rocket, and the Blackmagic Design Intensity USB 3.0/Thunderbolt. All will allow capture via both HDMI and component. All suffer from the same 1080p30 limit and none support 1080p24. Also, none of them will do surround sound (all are stereo only). And as intriguing as some of the added features that a few of them have (i.e. the Elgato has flashback recording, while the Live Gamer HD 2, Live Gamer HD portable, and HD PVR Rocket can all record to removable media without needing to be connected to the PC), none of them really fit my needs any better than the HD PVR 2 model 1512.
Just in the last week or two I heard about a new capture device from Avermedia called the ExtremeCap U3. This appears to be yet another step in the right direction...it can capture both 1080p24 and 1080p60. It also uses USB 3.0, which is considerably faster than USB 2.0. However, it is again crippled by a lack of surround sound support, being limited to stereo. However, this leads me to a question... Is it possible to capture video using one device and audio with another device and then combine the two feeds together without too much time/effort? Obviously this is possible on the professional level using professional equipment and software, but I'm not sure if it could be done with the ExtremeCap U3 for video and an HD PVR/Colossus or possibly a dedicated audio capture device capable of 5.1/7.1 lossless audio capture for audio. Would there be a way to guarantee A/V sync in this setup?