AVS Forum banner
1 - 20 of 48 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
29,889 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've posted this in the XA2 First End Users and the XA2 Problems threads, but I fear it's getting lost among other topics and deserves its own thread.


My XA2 has a problem with juddery video on some discs, both DVD and HD DVD. I've found that it doesn't affect every disc, but on those affected the problem is reproduceable. Playing the same disc in the HD-A1 has no judder. I've also taken steps to eliminate any other variable in my signal chain that could be introducing the judder (such as my video processor) and have concluded that it's the XA2 at fault.


My clearest example is on World Trade Center at approximately 3min. 48sec. There's a shot of a pedestrian walking on the sidewalk followed by a shot of traffic. Both blatantly stutter.


Serenity is another good example. At the beginning, when Simon is speaking to the scientist the judder happens several times, notably at approx. 2min. 24sec. It happens again during the camera tilt up to reveal River on the ceiling at 4min. 20sec.


For those who own the HQV Benchmark test DVD, check the "Mixed 3:2 With Video Titles" test pattern and follow the word "typical" as it scrolls across the bottom of the frame.


Can anyone else corroborate these findings? Again, these discs all play smoothly in the HD-A1.


Oddly, this problem does not affect every disc. I watched all of Black Rain last night without issue. I can't seem to find any common variables such as studio (both WTC and Black Rain are Paramount) or presence of advanced audio codec. It seems to be a crapshoot as to whether a disc will be affected or not. When a disc is affected, it isn't isolated to these specific scenes. It happens throughout the disc; these just happen to be the clearest examples.


Thanks.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,727 Posts
I can confirm this on every disk no matter if its DVD or HD DVD. There seems to be judder on pans and scrolls. I seem to be overly sensitive to this which is one of the reasons I didn't buy an Digital TV until now. But, it is VERY noticeable on vista type pans. But all I have to do is watch the end credits on any disc to get sea sick.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
312 Posts
^^I don't understand. A 1080p24 output feature is a recognized desired feature to eliminate judder for those HDTV's that have p24-multiple refresh rates, and it is supposed to be added to the XA2 via firmware in the next firmware update after next week's update, i.e., could be a couple of months. I can't explain why you'd currently see an A1 vs. XA2 judder difference, but are you sure it is judder? Are you sure it isn't going to be fixed by the p24 feature?


Sorry I don't have an XA2 to test, but Serenity HD DVD @ 00:02:24 on my A2 doesn't show any judder or jitter or studder. (On mine, 00:02:24 is a shot of River before we get to see Simon's face.) Ditto no problem at 00:04:20 (the tilt up to see River).


The only noticably imperfect thing I see is the same excessive graininess that I see on most HD DVD's. It's very noticible on those early blue-lit scenes in Serenity. (Imperfect compression, I assumed. In contrast, Chronicles of Riddick is an good example where most scenes seem lusciously smooth & sharp.) Is this graininess any better on your XA2 compared to your old A1?


PS#1 - my display is a Sony 46" flat LCD XBR2 1080p60.


PS#2 -- FWIW, scrolling credits at the end of any movie look so shaky that I doubt it could be caused by judder alone. I'm guessing jitter (irregular timing) rather than judder (regular 3:2 timing gaps).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29,889 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by CraiginNJ /forum/post/0


^^I don't understand. A 1080p24 output feature is a recognized desired feature to eliminate judder for those HDTV's that have p24-multiple refresh rates, and it is supposed to be added to the XA2 via firmware in the next firmware update after next week's update, i.e., could be a couple of months. I can't explain why you'd currently see an A1 vs. XA2 judder difference, but are you sure it is judder? Are you sure it isn't going to be fixed by the p24 feature?

I'm not talking about standard 3:2 pulldown. This is a problem present on the XA2 but not the A1. My projector will sync to either 60hz or 48 hz, and the problem is visible at either (though worse at 48hz). Again, no problems with either on the A1.


I believe JMCecil is describing standard 3:2 pulldown. I would like someone with the XA2 to check the specific discs and time codes I referenced. None of these examples happen in the middle of a pan or scroll. They all occur when the camera is static. Even the tilt-up to River in Serenity doesn't happen until after the tilt is completed.


This is also not a deinterlacing issue. I've tried 1080i, 1080p, and 720p output from the player. No difference.

Quote:
Sorry I don't have an XA2 to test, but Serenity HD DVD @ 00:02:24 on my A2 doesn't show any judder or jitter or studder. (On mine, 00:02:24 is a shot of River before we get to see Simon's face.) Ditto no problem at 00:04:20 (the tilt up to see River).

Thanks for checking the A2. This problem may be unique to the XA2. As I said, the A1 is fine.

Quote:
The only noticably imperfect thing I see is the same excessive graininess that I see on most HD DVD's. It's very noticible on those early blue-lit scenes in Serenity. (Imperfect compression, I assumed. In contrast, Chronicles of Riddick is an good example where most scenes seem lusciously smooth & sharp.) Is this graininess any better on your XA2 compared to your old A1?

Don't confuse film grain for a compression problem. Serenity has a grainier photographic style than Riddick by design.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
150 Posts
Jeepers ...


I just got the XA2 as an early b-day present from the wife (what a woman!). Hooked everything up not more than 30 mins ago, threw in "Sahara" (hd-dvd) as a test disc.


Saw a distinct judder on a pan of the car arriving in the city. Seemed to be juddery only on the "un-focused" background. The movement of the car was fine but the "city life" happening behind the car seemed to jitter rather badly.


Maybe its just my eyes ... but do you guys notice it to be prevelant on images that would be background, or otherwise out of focus?


I also followed up with a test of up-converting an SD DvD of Carnivale. Perfect.

Sheesh this is an awesome player - the up-conversion is amazing.


[EDIT} - Just found a setting in the setupo menu for Mode. Set mine to "Film" - haven't tested it yet.


Anyone got any tips on setting up the LAN? All my PC's (and X-360) can get IP via DHCP but no joy on the XA2. Tips?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29,889 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by rboster /forum/post/0


Josh: I reported in another post that I didn't see a judder problem on WTC. I went back and rechecked the scene you were talking about and had the incorrect scene the first time. Upon reinspection, I see the problem too. Dropping of frames in the scene the man walking down the sidewalk.

Thank you, rboster. A friend of mine off this board has also confirmed the judder on Serenity using his XA2.


This problem seems to be endemic to the model, not just faulty units. I recommend that everyone look for it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29,889 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNnDENVER /forum/post/0


You can't really alter the judder experience by changing the resolution being output byu the player?

No, it makes no difference. On the titles that suffer from this, it's always there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,771 Posts
Josh,


Do you think that the player is chucking out frames or is it some math error (overlooked) and fw addressable?


This sounds fairly bad as it affects all media.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,439 Posts
probably firmware fixable like the DTS judder was on the samsung blu-ray player.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,880 Posts
I haven't noticed any judder on any movies i've watched yet but I haven't watched the Serenity scene you mentioned and I don't have WTC.


Movies I've watched with no problem:


King Kong

Riddick

Reign of Fire

The Hulk

Batman Begins

MI 3

Goodfellas

and a number of SD movies.


I'll try the Serenity scene tonight.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
848 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by vmaxxer /forum/post/0


Jeepers ...


I just got the XA2 as an early b-day present from the wife (what a woman!). Hooked everything up not more than 30 mins ago, threw in "Sahara" (hd-dvd) as a test disc.


Saw a distinct judder on a pan of the car arriving in the city. Seemed to be juddery only on the "un-focused" background. The movement of the car was fine but the "city life" happening behind the car seemed to jitter rather badly.


Maybe its just my eyes ... but do you guys notice it to be prevelant on images that would be background, or otherwise out of focus?


I also followed up with a test of up-converting an SD DvD of Carnivale. Perfect.

Sheesh this is an awesome player - the up-conversion is amazing.


[EDIT} - Just found a setting in the setupo menu for Mode. Set mine to "Film" - haven't tested it yet.


Anyone got any tips on setting up the LAN? All my PC's (and X-360) can get IP via DHCP but no joy on the XA2. Tips?

For a few hours there I also could'nt get it to work either until I caught onto the fact that I forgot to actually plug the ethernet cable into the router. I **** you not, the basics always screw me yet I always waste time trying to locate the problems in the advance stages.


Did you set DHCP and DNS to on and choose "confirm"? When you do it should automatically find and configure your computer/router/modem information and addresses.


When it does finally work you should receive the message something to the effect of "your player is already updated with the latest firmware" when you try to update it.


If you didn't set it up correctly you will just receive "Can't locate the server" message (Something like that, can't recall the exact words).


Hope this helps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,390 Posts
Hi, Josh,


As I've reported on the other thread; I found no sign of judder on Serenity (2:24, 4:20).


I am also overly sensitive to problems with camera pans; this was the main reason I had to replace my Samsung DLP RPTV with a Sony LCD.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
150 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by J y E 4Ever /forum/post/0


Hope this helps.

Thanks for the tips. Turned out to be a bad cross-connect cable on the distribution port from the XA2 to the router.


Really diggin' on this box. Up-scaling continues to amaze me.

Other than the scene noted above in Sahara - no more judder here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29,889 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by petmic10 /forum/post/0


I haven't noticed any judder on any movies i've watched yet but I haven't watched the Serenity scene you mentioned and I don't have WTC.


Movies I've watched with no problem:


King Kong

Riddick

Reign of Fire

The Hulk

Batman Begins

MI 3

Goodfellas

and a number of SD movies.


I'll try the Serenity scene tonight.

Of those, I've also seen the judder on MI-3. Check the first shot of Chapter 2, when Michelle Monaghan opens the refrigerator.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29,889 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by steviec /forum/post/0


The only time I saw judder was when i had the internet connection setup wrong.

After disconnecting it and doing a reintialization in the setup menu the player works perfectly!

disconnect the internet connection.

I don't have the internet connection attached.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,239 Posts
I have read that this was a good player XA2. I wouldn't be good if was was not so good.


Did that make sense?
 
1 - 20 of 48 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top