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Discussion Starter #1
Everyone is talking about games that support 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i. But I don't think that that is the issue. Sure, the resolution the game plays in is both important and should be indicated on the packaging, BUT just because something supports full 1080i RESOLUTION does not necessarily mean it is presented in a 16:9 ASPECT format.


Aspect is what everyone is confused about, including the publishers.


For example, Halo... a great game by all accounts, but it is NOT 1080i AND 16:9 therefore I will NOT buy it. It may support 1920:1080 resolution but the pixels are not rendered in such a way to properly display content (as an anamorphic DVD).


Game publishers NEED to properly communicate a games features including the HD ones. I'm getting SICK to death of the "so few people have an HDTV so it doesn't matter" attitude.

Is it so much to ask that there be an Aspect and Resolution listing on the backwith the rest of the features?


Am I wrong? Should this be so hard? I'm just a simple guy who wants his HDTV to work correctly, trying not to be treated like the 16x9 ******* son at a 4x3 family reunion.
 

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Can anyone give a me quick update which Xbox games actually fully support the HDTV mode (High Res and display correctly at 16:9) ?


Or is nothing available at this time ?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Dead or Alive 3 is the only one I have seen, but I only have/rented three (Munch, Halo and DOA3)


I must say that DOA3 is stunning.


I'm waiting for Obi-Wan and Starfighter and hoping they are 1080i and 16x9.


Here's to hope!


Ben
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by dsmark2
Everyone is talking about games that support 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i. But I don't think that that is the issue. Sure, the resolution the game plays in is both important and should be indicated on the packaging, BUT just because something supports full 1080i RESOLUTION does not necessarily mean it is presented in a 16:9 ASPECT format.


Aspect is what everyone is confused about, including the publishers.


For example, Halo... a great game by all accounts, but it is NOT 1080i AND 16:9 therefore I will NOT buy it. It may support 1920:1080 resolution but the pixels are not rendered in such a way to properly display content (as an anamorphic DVD).


Game publishers NEED to properly communicate a games features including the HD ones. I'm getting SICK to death of the "so few people have an HDTV so it doesn't matter" attitude.

Is it so much to ask that there be an Aspect and Resolution listing on the backwith the rest of the features?


Am I wrong? Should this be so hard? I'm just a simple guy who wants his HDTV to work correctly, trying not to be treated like the 16x9 ******* son at a 4x3 family reunion.


I have a counter question, if Halo is such a great game, then why is lack of 1080i support the reason you're not buying it?


Never did Microsoft ever say every game made for the Xbox would be High Definition. So why are you holding that against them now?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Quote:
lack of 1080i support
Perfect example of the resolution and aspect being 2 seperate and usually confused issues. The game may actually support 1080i but that is not the point. Personally I care less if it's 1080i or 480p, I want the aspect to be correct. All HDTVs are 16x9 not 4x3 (last time I checked the XBox said HDTV not EDTV compatable) therefore games either need to windowbox or strech the picture, or better yet (gasp) they could have a 16x9 mode.


In Halo the people are too wide and too short when displayed on a 16x9 screen. That's an aspect problem not a resolution issue. Is it a reason not to play the game... not really, but I won't spend my money on games that don't properly support HDTV. For me it's a rental or a game to borrow. My issue is that the games aren't labeled to let you know the specs and every website says something different.


Not buying it is my way of voting for proper HD implementation. Microsoft seriously is pushing this for the advanced gamer and they even played Halo on a 16x9 screen at the New York premeir. I can't understand why the whole HD thing is kept so secret if they like to push it so hard.


Oh and finally as for holding it against MS... well they govern product quality control and also govern the packaging rules. I suggest a 16x9 icon and a Max Resolution icon similar to the Playstation's where they have icons for whether or not a game supports the memory card, analog controls etc. It's all about informing the consumer before they break the seal and are stuck with a game that they cannot return.


Ben
 

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Of the currently available titles only DOA3 and Madden have 16:9 support. But even those two games don't display in native 16:9. The programmers use a trick which allows the game to not look distorted on a 16:9 screen, but they don't actually take any advantage of a 16:9 field of vision. So I really wouldn't get your hopes to high regarding the whole 16:9 issue. I think that when Sony comes out with their Playstation 3, and when Nintendo comes out with their Gamecube 2, and Microsoft comes out with a XBOX 2 will we really see true 16:9 games.



Regarding the resolution, all games will display 480p through the HD pack, but no current game takes advantage of 720p or 1080i. The only game that has been anounced that will actually take advantage of 720p or 1080 is Test Drive. I believe Test Drive is slated to be 1080i and is supposed to be released next spring. Whether or not this game when it is released actually does do 1080i remains to be seen.


Again, if you are holding your breath, waiting for 1080i games I think that you might be dissapointed also.



I can't understand how anybody with a Dolby Digital 5.1 setup and a TV that can handle 480p could be dissapointed in the XBOX right now. To me, the XBOX has lived up to my expectations, and far exceeded them! All the games have drop dead gorgeous graphics and great Dolby Digital 5.1 sound. They all have great playability as well. Some games are a little more gorgeous than others and some use the 5.1 sound much better than others, but I have to say that I'm currently in 7th heaven with my XBOX. I have been waiting forever for a system to really take advantage of my Home Theater, and the XBOX is taking absolutely full and total advantage.


I thought that the PS2 was going to be that system, but was devastated when I realized that there wasn't going to be any progressive display for the PS2. The lack of Dolby Digital in game on the PS2 was also a big dissapointment. That system has a great library of games, but completely wastes advances in technology like Higher Resolutions and 5.1 sound real time.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony1
I have been waiting forever for a system to really take advantage of my Home Theater, and the XBOX is taking absolutely full and total advantage.
While the xbox may be a big step up vs PS2 (never owned one but I'll take your word for it), I can't see how 480p is taking absolutely full and total advantage of your home theatre.


Until games are 16:9 HD, with better soundtracks (where are the low Hz?) the xbox wont take full advantage of my 2yr old home theatre.


I'm not totally disappointed, DOA3 looks great and is fun, but the sound track is mediocre at best (and I'm an Aerosmith fan). Seldom do I get any sub 45 Hz bass, and the music has too much repetative techno in it for my taste.


It seems MS could have done much better on three fronts:


Game support lables (whats the big secret?)


Better 16:9 support with more HD games (hope thats coming)


Support for custom sountracks (My biggest DOA3 complaint)


All these things can be rectified, and should be. Especially given the hype and marketing surrounding the last two. But wait, thats an MS MO, list all the great features til they get you drooling, then deliver about half. And no telliing which half either.
 

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I could be wrong here, but I think he was referring to the fact that the system CAN take full advantage of his system as opposed to the ps2 which never will be able to. Also I wish the games were 1080i, BUT I can live without it for now. The fact that halo is an amazing addictive game above any other FPS I've ever played with 5.1 surround sound makes it well worth it.


I have a PS2 as well which I am finally starting to see some good games on after about a year. They PS2 was first released over a year ago now, and its taken quite a long time to get some REALLY good games. On launch date the Xbox released a game that IMHO blows anything I have seen to date on the PS2 (note I didn't get my copy of Metal Gear 2 yet).
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by dsmark2
For example, Halo... a great game by all accounts, but it is NOT 1080i AND 16:9 therefore I will NOT buy it. It may support 1920:1080 resolution but the pixels are not rendered in such a way to properly display content (as an anamorphic DVD).


Game publishers NEED to properly communicate a games features including the HD ones. I'm getting SICK to death of the "so few people have an HDTV so it doesn't matter" attitude.

Is it so much to ask that there be an Aspect and Resolution listing on the backwith the rest of the features?


Am I wrong? Should this be so hard? I'm just a simple guy who wants his HDTV to work correctly, trying not to be treated like the 16x9 ******* son at a 4x3 family reunion.
This is fairly silly. I can understand part of where this is coming from - if we were talking about movies, I would agree with you. But as far as games go, a couple thoughts:


1) It's gonna be your loss. Halo is the best X-Box game out right now. It's one of the best FPS's I've ever played, and I have played a lot - check out my website.


2) I personally think the jury is still out on whether Halo supports 16x9. I've heard both. I can tell you this - on my 16x9 Pioneer Elite 610, Halo is either native 16x9 or the X-Box does the hands down best job of stretching it out that I have ever seen. For God's sake, the giant ring planet that it takes place on is perfectly round and it takes up the whole screen! No stretching evident.


So, if you were thinking you were gonna get this and be as irritated as you would be if you were watching a non-anamorphic DVD on your widescreen, you may want to think again.
 

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dsmark2,


First, take some prozac. Then realize that we're already seeing slowdown in games on the X-Box running in 720x480. So don't think that you're going to see 1080i games tomorrow. Developers are having major optimization problems.


Halo and Munch's Oddysee both have major slowdown when there are lots of objects on screen.

Quote:
Perfect example of the resolution and aspect being 2 seperate and usually confused issues. The game may actually support 1080i but that is not the point. Personally I care less if it's 1080i or 480p, I want the aspect to be correct.
Actually, I think you've confused things.

720p is GUARANTEED to be 16:9 progressive scan

1080i is GUARANTEED to be 16:9 interlaced


How could 720p and 1080p be anything BUT 16:9? Grab a calculator and divide 1920 by 1080. You get 1.7778. Now try 1280 by 720. 1.7778 again. Ok, divide 16 by 9. Hmm, 1.7778 again. I'm beginning to see a pattern. If you see 1080 material that's square, please let me know.


480i and 480p are ambiguous, as 720x480 is halfway between 4:3 and 16:9. So it can contain either one. If you are unstretching 4:3 content to 16:9 and then complaining about the picture, you might want to check your medication.


It would be nice if Halo and all the other games supported 16:9 even at 480i/480p, but they just didn't have time. Things like 16:9 support are always the first thing to go when deadlines loom.


The X-Box itself provides incredible HDTV capabilities. It supports 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i, and in 480i you can choose 4:3, widescreen anamorphic (16:9) for those with a TV or projector that can unstretch, and even letterbox mode for 4:3 people who like widescreen!


PS2 supports 480i and some games can do 16:9 anamorphic. Dreamcast supports 480i and 480p and several games can do 16:9 anamorphic. Considering that, why would you think there aren't at least as many 16:9 anamorphic games coming to X-Box?

Quote:
In Halo the people are too wide and too short when displayed on a 16x9 screen. That's an aspect problem not a resolution issue. Is it a reason not to play the game... not really, but I won't spend my money on games that don't properly support HDTV.
Who told you Halo supported 16:9 or HD? If it doesn't say it on the box, it doesn't support it. Halo is 4:3, plain and simple. If you bought X-Box thinking it was the "HD" console and every game would be 16:9 and/or 720p/1080i, you are sorely mistaken. I haven't seen you complain here that all 200 channels on your cable are "the wrong aspect ratio".

Quote:
Of the currently available titles only DOA3 and Madden have 16:9 support. But even those two games don't display in native 16:9. The programmers use a trick which allows the game to not look distorted on a 16:9 screen, but they don't actually take any advantage of a 16:9 field of vision.
It's called anamorphic widescreen. It's the same thing DVDs do.


It's the game developers who are too busy trying to get launch and near-launch titles out to, quite frankly, deal with the 5% who care about HD and 16:9. Soon though. Very soon. Just hold on a few months.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Personal attacks being ignored, I can't understand what is wrong with demanding the best from game developers. The consumers are the ones who need to let them know what we want.


XBox IS being sold as an advanced gaming platform otherwise Mr. Gates would not have been playing it on a 16x9 HDTV screen with Mr. Rock at the New York debut.

Proper game labeling is NOT too much to ask, nor is full HD support. The GeForce 2 should easily handle 1920x1080.


Demanding HDTV at it's best is essential because if it's not supported by the early adopters then it dies on the vine. If you like the games that aren't 16x9, hey sorry if I upset you to the point you had to make derrogitory comments. As for the aspect... you are correct I was wrong. 640x480 and 720x480 had me to beleive that there was a corresponding 4x3 resolution for the x720 and the x1080 resolutions. My bad.
 

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1920x1080 or at least 720x480 16:9 would be fabulous, but just to reiterate, they're having optimization problems.


I too thought this was supposed to be a next-gen system, but at 720x480 in ordinary 4:3, Munch's Oddysee dropped to 5fps with 17 mudokons following me.


Wish some X-Box developers would weigh in here.


P.S. Whatever happened to progressive scan DVD playback? Is it anywhere near DVDO capability? At least tell me it's as good as a Toshiba 6200.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by dsmark2
I'm waiting for Obi-Wan and Starfighter and hoping they are 1080i and 16x9.


Here's to hope!


Ben
That's part of the Lucas Wing of Fox. We all know how well they support HDTV.


Trust me, this title will be 480i ONLY -- they'll code something in to break the game if you run with the HD pack. After all, you could use the game to violate a valuable intellectual property's copyright asset... such as using screenshots to make your own Star Wars movie and take money away from poor, starving artists like George Lucas.


No 1080i video games from Lucas for you!


-- Robert
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Progressive DVD playback was nixed at the last minute. I have one and it is only 480i but it says that NOWHERE on the packaging for the DVD module, but the HDTV AV module makes mention of it though.

One of my complaints was that official XBox demo boxes, and other marketing info indicated the 10GB Harddrive (later reduced to 8GB) and that the DVD module would be progressive. Using early buzz to generate interest is a double edged blade if you decide to later change your mind. In this case they end up upsetting people.

Don't get me wrong it's a cool machine and I like the games so far, I just want straight answers and clearly defined features.


The progressive scan was nixed for licensing fee issues I hear (could be a nice line of bull, but who can say.) They also say it may be released in the future but at a greater cost.


Who knows, its the best gaming system out as far as the technology and I am not bashing the hardware, only concerned that the game publishers will take the easy road out leaving HDTV owners wanting yet again.
 

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Wow. The XBox has been out only four days and people are already bitching about the lack of 16x9 and HD support. How about waiting ~6 months and then come back and talk? This system is brand new and there are currently only a limited number of game titles available.


How can some people expect perfection right from the beginning?


I own a XBox and also own a 16X9 HDTV and I have been very satisfied with the release so far. I own four games, and two of those are Widescreen. (Madden and DOA3) I also own Halo and it may or may not be widescreen, but it sure as hell looks great. If you ask me it is widescreen.


Now, if one year down the road we are in the same position that we are in now I will be disappointed.

Additionaly, most people in the gaming world will tell you that a system doesn't start to hit it's prime with games until it has been out a year.


How about having some patience?
 

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I am sorely disappointed in the video performance of the X-Box. After x number of years after the Dreamcast, the X-Box doesn't look half as good (when using the VGA adapter on the Dreamcast).


The reason everyone is so upset is because of phrases that have been released by Microsoft and electronic magazines that implied we'd be looking at HDTV quality gaming.


DOA3 is 16:9 and supports progressive scanning...but even my wife thinks it looks "washed out" when we compare it to: (a) Soul Calibur with the VGA box, or even (b) Luigi's Mansion on the GameCube with S-Video cables!!!


The reason people are confused (at least the reason I am) is because nothing looks all that good. It is very difficult to tell if what we are looking at is even progressive-scanned...Shouldn't that be obvious at boot-up?! Even Halo, which I love for its gameplay, looks much much worse than I was expecting.


Those of you that don't understand us who are complaining must have had such low expectations as to be pleased with what we've got.


I am absolutely worried that the X-Box games of the future will look no better than the stuff we're seeing now.


What makes ANYONE believe that the best stuff is yet to come, when the information presented before launch has been so MISLEADING?


If you want to know what this stuff COULD look like...grab a Dreamcast with a VGA box and get NFL Football, or Soul Calibur...or even Samba de Amigo.


My question for this forum is: Is it the X-Box or is it the Games?


Kevin
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by kcmchugh
DOA3 is 16:9 and supports progressive scanning...but even my wife thinks it looks "washed out" when we compare it to: (a) Soul Calibur with the VGA box, or even (b) Luigi's Mansion on the GameCube with S-Video cables!!!
Mabye on your system it looks washed out, but on my tv DOA3 is slamming. Great colors, and very nice looking graphics.


Quote:
The reason people are confused (at least the reason I am) is because nothing looks all that good. It is very difficult to tell if what we are looking at is even progressive-scanned...Shouldn't that be obvious at boot-up?! Even Halo, which I love for its gameplay, looks much much worse than I was expecting.


Those of you that don't understand us who are complaining must have had such low expectations as to be pleased with what we've got.


Mabye you want to take a look at your setup. Sounds like you aren't getting what you could be out of your system.(what is your system?) All the games I have played look excellent (ISF'd WS-65807)and believe me...my expectations were high.


Quote:
I am absolutely worried that the X-Box games of the future will look no better than the stuff we're seeing now.
I wouldn't worry. Remember the difference on the playstation graphics when it first came out, compared to some of the stuff they are doing now on the original system (Ex. - Tekken to Tekken 3)? Also keep in mind that the PS1 at the time was a brand new system, as is the XBox. As time goes by games will continue to look better and better as the programmers learn the code better.
 

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The Xbox did not meet my expectations.


I wanted more 16x9 support and I was hoping for 1080i.


Besides, the graphics are not all that. My PC looks a lot better (it is high end).


Oh well.
 

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I have sent out emails to all the companies that I can think of that have upcoming XBOX games to be released and expressed my interest in 1080i gaming and stressed I would definitely buy their game if it supported 1080i. I don't know if it will help but maybe we can all voice our opinion to them.
 

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For God's sake, the giant ring planet that it takes place on is perfectly round and it takes up the whole screen!
Umm, if you have a 16:9 set that is impossible.
 
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