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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
HI Folks:

I just got myself one of those '04 VDC 8500 Longbow projectors and I think I'd like to go the extra mile for the HD-145 color filtered lenses for the machine. I believe the machine already has mounts to support those lenses, so I don't need the special mounts. Does anyone know where I can get the lenses and the price?


Thanks!

John.
 

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Ask over on Curtpalme.com, some one there must have them. But honestly these longbows actually track greyscale quite well.. I have two set of HD-144's i plan to use eventually but for now I have them set up and focused for my temporary blend and don't want to mess with them. So look for Hd144's or HD-145's they both focus well , only the throw distance differs.


Athanasios
 

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It's nothing to do with tracking greyscale Athan.


The primaries are just wrong without filtered lenses. Grass is green, not pastel. Blood is red, not a washed out pink (ok, I exaggerate a bit).


But John you guys should LC these longbows. It's just wrong wasting their electronics on an AC projector.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_A_W /forum/post/16973392


It's nothing to do with tracking greyscale Athan.


The primaries are just wrong without filtered lenses. Grass is green, not pastel. Blood is red, not a washed out pink (ok, I exaggerate a bit).


But John you guys should LC these longbows. It's just wrong wasting their electronics on an AC projector.

Your right mark, And I do have a lot of 9 inch tubes, just need to get one set of my Aluminum housings anodized.


Athanasios
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hi Mark and Athanasios, thanks for the input. I got the longbow set up and all I can say is wow - having a new tricked-out machine with new tubes is such a treat. I still have to do proper greyscale setup (my girlfriend hid my DVE disc somewhere in her tidying..;-) ) but am getting a great image. I do sense a bit too much green tint somehow in the image, and things seem to bright, even though I have brighness and contrast set to 50. I guess I'll need to do greyscale first and then go from there.


Mark, I'm stil a bit of a newbie on the CRT stuff (always will be, despite the dozens of hours I've spent researching this stuff ;-) ) - should I be looking for Liquid Coupled 145 or 144 color-filtered lenses then, and heard I need just the color filtered lenses on red and green tubes, but not needed for blue, but then does that mess up the throw distances (I'm thinkinking I surely need the same throw distance for each tube/lens?). Anyways, I'd appreciate your advice on what I need to shop for there, and where I can get the gear ;-).


Thanks!

John.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks Athanasios. I'm running the projector in 1080p :) although i do have some open questions/issues:


Things seem to run hot, which may be completely normal, especially in this high resolution - the back plate is pretty hot, and I'm wondering if I'm running things too hard by chooseing 1080p, and maybe something like 1080i or 720p might be more prudent from a reliability standpoint?


In 1080p, I cant' really make out text on the Windows Desktop - all the text is kind of 'spidery' and seems too much for the projector to render. But, when I load up a movie on PowerDVD Ultra, all is well - the image is great, but if I right click to get the software menu, again, it's pretty illegible. Is this normal?


The image I get is slightly soft - still fantastic, of course, but I do notice some softness, despite having done astig and good convergence, and proper mechanical setup etc. My source is a pretty regular PC, with a BD drive, running direct with no scalear and just using PowerDVD Ultra and AnyDVD-HD. I'm not sure if I need to use some scaler or just pick a lower resolution.


Slightly off topic, and embarassing that I don't know the answer already - I'm not sure how to switch easily between different sources and/or resolutions. I can use the windows/video menus to chagne resolution, but then I get an image that needs to be redone (geometry, convergence etc.). Is there a way I can easily jump between resolutions using the same source (way to store different configurations/calibrations per each resolution).


Thanks!

John.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
PS: I do know how to pick between Source 1 and 2 on the remote - just not sure about saving different inputs. Right now I'm using Source #2 with a Moome card - an older one which supports DVI (which I'm using) and component, but no gamma boost. Is this card enough/ok for 1080p?
 

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You'll have to set up different memory blocks fro each different resolution your going to be using. then you will have to redo the set up on that memory for that resolution and save(lock) it. Down load the users manual from Curts web Site. also if your in any menu and dont know what its for hit help and it usualy gives a rough description fo where you are and what its for.


So since yo already have 1080p set up go to utilities then you'll see a menu. 1 should be source set up if you hit it you can select save, save this to another location, s if your in the moome card S2 save this as Recall 1 or channel 1, then go back to the utilities source set up and hit save again, now save it to recall 2 or channel 2. then exit. now bring up recall 02 and put up the other resolution you want to use. int he utilities menu for the source set up select 3) this is where you lock or unlock the memory, unlock it so when you do convergence for the new res you can then save it by locking it again. now when you hit recall 02 you'll get this new memory block hit recall 01 and your 1080p res will be there. get It? the manual explains better than I.


the blurryness is probably that you need to adjust the peaking circuits on the VIM, hard to do with out an extender card to bring the VIM outside the chassis, you could try to reach the trim pot capacitors by removing the panel above the VIM and fit a narrow screw driver to reach the trim pot but that is risky ( might short something).

Pic of Peaking circuit trimpots for each color



Screen shot of Longbow with a very very rough set up.



this is [email protected], no CPC magnets done or proper magnetic set up.






Athanasios
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnetbiz /forum/post/16976347


Things seem to run hot, which may be completely normal, especially in this high resolution - the back plate is pretty hot, and I'm wondering if I'm running things too hard by chooseing 1080p,


In 1080p, I cant' really make out text on the Windows Desktop - all the text is kind of 'spidery' and seems too much for the projector to render. But, when I load up a movie on PowerDVD Ultra, all is well - the image is great, but if I right click to get the software menu, again, it's pretty illegible. Is this normal?

The image I get is slightly soft - still fantastic, of course, but I do notice some softness, despite having done astig and good convergence, and proper mechanical setup etc. John.

just out of curiosity john how does the temeprature and sharpness compare to your older 8500 with HD mod's?

For source set-up do what Athan sugested, Utilities + channel list. Create a channel for each resoution and input slot. You can even name them, like 720P Moome etc. Switch by simply pushing the channel number + Enter. when watching, hit Recall at any time to remind you what channel your on.
 

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I still have not fully optimized the PJ's yet. Lots of work to get it perfect. My one Blending unit is down so i have not spent time on it. Getting the CPC mags right is the hardest part. But as you see in my comments even not set up it's not bad for an 8 inch machine, my 8000 was not even this good at 48 hz.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hi Dragan:

It will take me a while to note the differences, as I've a bit of work still to do on this machine, but even then it will be hard to compare effectively, mainly because my older 8500 machine with your HD mods had a few issues (unrelated to your mods); like the red tube was way out of alignment on one side, and the green tube was a bit worn (about a 7.5 out of 10). This new machine is just so 'together' - I haven't been able to mess this one up like I did my last machine.....yet...;-) I still have to do greyscale calibration on this new machine. In doing mechanical setup and convergence, the sharpness on this new machine seems staggering to me - I was laughing, it was so good.


I feel like I've a lot more learning I need to do - I don't even know what CPC means, and I don't really know how to effectively adjust stuff like flare. i'm tempted to leave some stuff well enough alone, lest I make things worse than they are. Right out of the box, this thing was a breeze to dial in.


I'm mighty tempted to get sorted with some LC lenses though - this seems like a good project for next steps.


Thanks guys for the resolution/input-saving guidance - I'll see can I figure that out too. I'm trying to have fun with this, and make it seem less like work.
 

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John, you can't "just get" LC lenses.


You need HD-10 lenses, LC tube housings, and tube mounting plates.


I would say it's well worth it, but it's not simple. I did the upgrade on my NEC XG.



Sounds like the setup needs work, on my XG, the desktop at 1080p is "reasonable". It's not sharp like a 9"er or digital, but it's pretty good. I would expect the Longbow to be better when well setup.
 

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Oh, Mike posted while I was typing.


My XG is almost that sharp at 1080p 48hz. But not 72hz.



Your test pattern screenshots are excellent Mike (now go fix up the movie shots - gamma is wrong and black is crushed and they are still a bit soft!! They undersell you
)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_A_W /forum/post/16977955


Oh, Mike posted while I was typing.


My XG is almost that sharp at 1080p 48hz. But not 72hz.



Your test pattern screenshots are excellent Mike (now go fix up the movie shots - gamma is wrong and black is crushed and they are still a bit soft!! They undersell you
)

Actually after we got mike all fired up his latest shots are EXCELLENT!!! Our job was done there



Athanasios
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_A_W /forum/post/16977955


Oh, Mike posted while I was typing.


My XG is almost that sharp at 1080p 48hz. But not 72hz.



Your test pattern screenshots are excellent Mike (now go fix up the movie shots - gamma is wrong and black is crushed and they are still a bit soft!! They undersell you
)

I think I'm going to need a better camera, but will work at getting things better. The camera I'm using will not capture things as i see it, especially the low end. I'll soon have a remote for the Moome card to try the gamma out, because I'm not sure I have it enabled.


Anyway, thanks for the observation. I'll work on making that happen..
 

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OK Mike, I am not sure if that was directed at me, but you know damn well that the best a CRT can do is no more than 15 or 20 MTF. I can't remember the exact figure, but that is what Darin, Scott and myself measured at VDC three years ago.


Also, Mike I have to ask. Why is it after all of these years with supposedly so many CRT enthusiasts has there been only four people that have visited Scott at VDC? One of them is a digital guy in Darin.
 
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