[wolfgang armbru]

Just returned from the Home Entertainment Show in NY. The show displays a large assortment of projectors, making it nirvana for anyone in the market for projectors.


Anyway, TI sent a contingent of sales/engineers to the show. Many of them were congregated at the Samsung booth, showing off the brand-new HD2 chip in rear projection DLP sets (which Samsung will price at $4k for 50â€, and $3 1/2k for a 43†set. They’ll be marketed in July).


To my amazement, I found that reading this forum regularly made me fairly competent in even having this discussion with the TI folk. Here is what I learned about the HD2 chip for front projector:


The HD2 chip will be out in a few months, with the first front projectors expected to be unveiled at the CEDIA show in Minneapolis in late September. The HD2 chip will have mirrors angled at 12 degrees, and will boost the lumens and the contrast ratio “somewhatâ€. But the impact on the image will be quite robust. Did not have other specs on the HD2 chip. In another year, an HD3 chip will be out, whose contrast ratio will exceed 3000. But they had no other data for the HD3 chip.


I must say the HD2 rear projection sets looked noticeably better than the current generation of HD (now old generation) sets on display. Seems like we may have exciting times coming up in the HT industry.

 

[Bulldogger]

Damn, they are already working on an HD3 chip? I guess the "train" won't stop until it hits 1080p.

 

[PhilB]

I think I just decided to pick up one of these Samsungs and wait a while longer for the FP. How close do I need to sit to a 50" to make it look like a 100" screen?


The cost of these new sets, along with other mitigating factors (like my 3 year old son) make the RPTV much more inviting right now.


-phil

 

[Scott B]

HD3 chip with greater than 3000 to 1 contrast! I really want to like DLP, however, until they figure out a way to get rid of the rainbows I will take a pass.

 

[Paul Hayward]

Thanks for the update Wolfgang,


Bulldogger, dont you realise, the 'train' will never stop! Since pj technology moved into the digital arena they have become subject to the kind of fantastic changes that occur with computers. There will always be something more amazing down the pike.


Best Wishes,


Paul H

 

[Christopher Howard]

If I understand this correctly TI has nothing to do with Rainbows since they only make the HD chip. Aren't rainbows caused by colorwheels which are made by the OEM?

 

[PhilB]

Chris,


Out of the mouth of babes (or in this case new members) comes wisdom. It is true that rainbows are caused by color wheel artifacts in single DMD based systems. If the OEMs were designing 3-DMD displays, rainbows would not be discussed. As it is, TI designed the first DLP systems (in order to show off the product) some of which were single chip/color wheel based. For some reason some people on this forum think there is some conspiracy to keep the rainbows around. I just think that the manufacturers are trying to make the biggest bang for the buck (in other words sell the lest costly product that satisfies the most people for the the highest price).


-phil

 

[azryan]

Wolfgang,


How did those Samsung RPTV's stand up to CRT RP's?

I know Samsung had been showing off 50" and 43" RPTV's for the past two years using LCoS, but they never ended up actually hitting the streets for sale. I was always very interested in them, but never got to see them in person.


Sounds like Samsung ditched LCoS to go with DLP? Did they say these sets will actually 100% be for sale, and NOT prototypes??


Also they didn't happen to mention Scramtech's scramscreen technology did they? You didn't notice that name labeled on anything did you?


Check out www.scramtech.com for more about what it is.


Sounds incredible, and their very old now press release says Samsung has gotten involved with implementing this rear projection screen.


Chris,


Like Phil said, DLP does not have to use a color wheel. 3 chip DLP systems are VERY coslty though, so one-chip designs are by far the norm, and in that design you have to use something to flip through red, green, and blue colors.

A spining color wheel is simple, cheap, easy, and for most very effective. I see rainbows even in the fastest current colorwheel designs.


There's a new colorwheel design developed by TI that uses a spiral of color which when spinning as fast as a typical segmented color wheel seems to have the effect of changing the colors many times faster.


This may eliminate rainbow altogether. I hope. We'll see when it's finally implememted in something.

 

[Colmino]

> I really want to like DLP, however, until they figure out a way to get rid of the rainbows I will take a pass.


Rainbows are what prevent me from ever buying a single-chip DLP projector. But I also take issue with the inferior fill-factor, and the fact that the individual pixels have little (blurred) holes in their centers.


No color wheel will ever be good enough to completely eliminate rainbows. Best you'll get is situations where you "don't see them as often" as with older models.

 

[Tivolicious]

Has anyone seen the rainbows on the RP DLP units?


-Steve

 

[Dan Miller]

Just thought I'd throw this in just for kicks...


This is a repost of mine to a question about 3 chip that was raised on another forum.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Since TI has not built a formatter board yet for a 3 chip 16:9 device, don't look for it in the near future.


HOWEVER...


TI wants (and so do we) to have a consumer 3 chip solution soon (soon being relative, of course). Since they build both XGA and SXGA solutions already in the pro market, the basic work has been done. My guess is by CEDIA 2004. I know that seems like a long time, but you have to realize that the product that we are building for 2003 is already in the works now, so the discussions have just been started for the generation after that.


And all other things being equal, a 3 chip will have more useable light output, due to not having a color wheel, and more efficient optical light path. They are also larger (duh) and will require complete ground up design in chassis and optics.


But it's gonna be cool


Dan

 

[Spizz]

Quote:

The HD2 chip will be out in a few months, with the first front projectors expected to be unveiled at the CEDIA show in Minneapolis in late September.

I am glad I have waited so long though through no fault of my own eg. lip sync, short throw lens, price etc. I am looking forward to see what is unveiled at CEDIA.


Spero D.

 

[wolfgang armbru]

Fortunately, the show is across the street from where I work, so was able to send more time there today and study the HD2 DLP Samsung RPTV’s. Here is what I learned as well as some further reflections on the HD2 sets. This post won’t pertain to front projectors, but is an effort to respond to some of the questions in this thread:


The Samsung HD2 units on display are not prototypes, but are part of the 150 first production run Samsung just received. These sets are being mass-produced in Korea and Mexico, with first sets going to a few retailers in late June/early July. Those retailers are the high-end retailers, including Tweeters, Universe, and SoundAdvise. August will see wide availability at mass merchants, including Sears and either Best Buy or Circuit City. The MSRP is $4,500 for the 50†and $4,000 for a 43â€. Samsung anticipates the actual sales price could be 10% below MSRP, but not during the initial roll-out.


Samsung did indeed explore using LCOS technology for RPTV, but abandoned it when the production runs produced inconsistent output. Samsung has cast its lot with TI’s HD2 chip, code named Mustang. There is nothing on the sets indicating scram technology.


Now here is my opinion of these sets, after another day of view.


In a word—incredible.


The image was considerably sharper than the far more expensive plasma sets on display in the same booth. And I honestly feel the HD2 was at least as bright and colorful as any CRT set. The 50†set was fairly narrow (18†deep) and lightweight (85 pounds). In the near 30 minutes of viewing, I saw no rainbows or motion artifacts. In fact, I was mesmerized by its quality, which was a 1080i source displayed in 720p.


Samsung has no plans for HD2 in front projector (that’s not Samsung’s market), but they believe the crisp image of their HD2 gives them a competitive advantage over the current generation of HDTV. And judging by my non-scientific eye exam of these HD2’s against the other HDTV’s in the show, I agree that Samsung has a winner.


Should be interesting to see how HD2 appears in front projectors!

 

[Cinder]

Man getting hyped about these tv's.


Just wanted to throw out a bit of info, Circuit City will definately carry these tv's but not until august. My nephew is a manager at a circuit city and they will be carrying samsung's full line of dlp and plasma tv's come august. The discount in the store he told me is consistent with the 10% off that was mentioned.


(Can't wait to see what the manager discount is )

 

[hhelmut]

As I know the following will come up:


TI is working and still finishing the new HD2 chip; this will be a chip with a native resolution of 1280x720 with 12° angel and the new surface. The contrast-ratio will be up to 1800:1; First units will be on the market in Q4


The XGA-chip with 12° angel and the new surface and a contrast ratio of 1800:1 will be in the XB31


hb

 

[BizarroTerl]

Isn't the XB31 already out and boasting a 1800:1 CR?

 

[DaViD Boulet]

I want 1920 x 1080!!!!

 

[C Clark]

Quote:

Originally posted by Colmino > ..., and the fact that the individual pixels have little (blurred) holes in their centers.

TI is already addressing this issue. The small indentation has been filled. They have a modified Sharp 9000 in their demo room here in Plano.

 

[hhelmut]

@ DaViD Boulet


I don´t want to bother you, but as I know you have to wait for a longer time. The maximum of native resoltion will be still today UXGA on LCD -> and when you have a look at the pricing ?????!!!!


And all the cinema pj are working with S-XGA;


I didn´t want to pick up a flamepost, but I think, we have to be on the ground.


hb

 

[Art Lloyd]

Ignorant question: Why is there so much difficulty with a three chip DLP when LCOS seems to turn three chip designs out so confidently? Art