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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
You're probably wondering "why in the world are you comparing two sub four figure PJ's to one that's doesn't even belong in this sub forum you psycho?!!?!?!?!"


My question is do you guys really think these 3LCD PJ's are worth 3x the price of these new sub $1,000 1080p PJ's? Are the picture's REALLY that much nicer?


Contrast is much higher it seems, lumens seems about the same, uniformity might be a difference of 10-15%...

Projector People's Comparison


This is what PJ People have to say:


"What are these new low-priced 1080p projectors missing? For starters, the new projectors don’t specify the 120hz frame rate that really set the Sanyo PLV3000, Epson Home Cinema 6500 UB and Panasonic PT-AE3000U apart from the entry level home theater projectors. There is also no lens shift or power zoom, which could arguably be considered a necessary feature for the DIY projector installer. But for $999, you might be willing to get creative in the way you mount your projector. We will be doing more comparison as the new units roll in. Stay tuned!"


So if a person doesn't care about 120hz, isn't that the 'big' selling point of these ~$3K PJ's?


can someone explain why lens shift or power zoom would make a difference to the DIY installer?
if you're willing to DIY and do whatever to try to make the picture look good/focused?


I do apologize if I sound like a newb, I've never owned a PJ before. I could find the funds for the ~$3,000 PJ's but I'm wondering if you guys think they are really worth 3X the price of these new budget 1080p PJ's. I'd rather not spend 3X the price for 120hz, zoom that I could set up once and leave it, and just a tad better in quality though.


thanks!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2lee240 /forum/post/16980021


You're probably wondering "why in the world are you comparing two sub four figure PJ's to one that's doesn't even belong in this sub forum you psycho?!!?!?!?!"


My question is do you guys really think these 3LCD PJ's are worth 3x the price of these new sub $1,000 1080p PJ's? Are the picture's REALLY that much nicer?

thanks!

first, I think you underestimate the impact of contrast differences. Neither of these cheap projectors are going to have the "pop" and color saturation of the 3lcd projectors you list. Those contrast improvements are expensive.

Second, having no (or very little) lens shift or zoom means you will need to be very precise in your screen and projector placement. The generous lens shift/zoom allow us amateurs to mount the projector in a place that is easy/convenient and then shift/zoom to fit the screen.

Also, if you are sensitive to rainbow effect, the cheap dlp is likely to drive you nuts.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnewmanpac /forum/post/16980212


first, I think you underestimate the impact of contrast differences. Neither of these cheap projectors are going to have the "pop" and color saturation of the 3lcd projectors you list. Those contrast improvements are expensive.

Second, having no (or very little) lens shift or zoom means you will need to be very precise in your screen and projector placement. The generous lens shift/zoom allow us amateurs to mount the projector in a place that is easy/convenient and then shift/zoom to fit the screen.

Also, if you are sensitive to rainbow effect, the cheap dlp is likely to drive you nuts.

While I agree with you in some respects both technologies do have their Pros & Cons but I think we do have to be careful about using "cheap" as a descriptor with electronic systems. Time really does reduce cost and many times increases the quality over what was. That is the nature of electronics.


The quality and dependability of these new $1k projectors are yet to be determined.


They maybe indeed be a real step forward!

Oh, by the way the HD20 has a 6 segment RGBRGB 4x Color wheel which should make rainbows fare less noticeable.


Rew
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rew452 /forum/post/16980366


While I agree with you in some respects both technologies do have their Pros & Cons but I think we do have to be careful about using "cheap" as a descriptor with electronic systems. Time really does reduce cost and many times increases the quality over what was. That is the nature of electronics.


The quality and dependability of these new $1k projectors are yet to be determined.


They maybe indeed be a real step forward!

Oh, by the way the HD20 has a 6 segment RGBRGB 4x Color wheel which should make rainbows fare less noticeable.


Rew

good to hear about the 4x wheel on the HD20...


I have a samsung 52" 630 series TV for news/tv watching so this is going to be a dedicated HT PJ...from what I hear, that should help out with buying a LCD pj (althought it still makes me nervous about the lifespan of the lcd)


Rew, i do understand what you're saying about quality/convinience bringing down the overall cost...the rebate and free lamp + 4000hr bulb helps out the 6500UB quite a bit...


cdnewmanpac, I don't see rainbows so that's not a issue...so since i've never seen in person the difference (contrast/color) between a $3K pj and a $1K pj, can someone vouch at the difference? lets pretend they're both set up correctly...


lens shift would be nice, but I don't think its going to bother me that much...(ofcourse that's just what i'm hoping for)


thanks for your advices so far...any more thoughts?
 

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One thing people typically forget in these comparisons is the quality of the optics. Yes, electronics come down drastically in price over time, but a quality lens doesn't. When you're working with zoom lenses, quality optics can make a noticeable difference in picture sharpness, especially if you're working near the limits of the zoom range, and on the outer regions of the picture. This is one of those things that may not be as apparent unless you have a side by side comparison or the lens is so bad that the picture is noticeably fuzzy or suffering from barrel distortion.
 

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I think current 1080p projectors are going to drop alot by late September early October in order to compete with the new lower priced models. By black Friday, I am guessing we will se the 6500UB for $1700.


If this is your first projector and have some ambient light or white walls, just go with the HD20 as contrast advantages will be nullified by reflections on the screen.


Otherwise I would wait for prices to drop on the higher end models. I normally would not tell people to wait, but with such a dramatic drop in price, it is a good time to see how things shake out.


I remember when the Optoma HD70 was the first 720p projector under $1000 and 720p prices plumented within a few months.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rew452 /forum/post/16980366


While I agree with you in some respects both technologies do have their Pros & Cons but I think we do have to be careful about using "cheap" as a descriptor with electronic systems. Time really does reduce cost and many times increases the quality over what was. That is the nature of electronics.


The quality and dependability of these new $1k projectors are yet to be determined.


They maybe indeed be a real step forward!

Oh, by the way the HD20 has a 6 segment RGBRGB 4x Color wheel which should make rainbows fare less noticeable.


Rew

Cheap=
 

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Haha... good advice except some of us have been waiting since the HD31 was the hot item. lolz There will always be "a better deal", "a better product", "new technology" etc around the corner. Its a never ending road in technology. I say, if you want it, are happy with what it can do, go for it. Ya can always sell it later and upgrade. They don't seem to depreciate that much.


Me?... i'm waiting to see some quality reviews (guitarman) and see what happens with the Epson lineup like you mentioned ... but that's it. I'm gona have something before the end of this year. Projector or flat screen... just time to upgrade from my old big box.
 

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and, of course, there are some fundamental differences in the technology - I tested out the epson for a month, 144" screen, light living room with ambient, the black levels were a noticable improvement over my ae900, but the screen door effect was a deal breaker - the wife wouldn't even consider it, not being familiar with the hobby or the terminology, she said, "it's like I'm watching everything through a screen door." DLP doesn't have that problem (though it can have RBE if you are so effected) and should be a something to consider if you're going for anything larger than a 120" screen.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnewmanpac /forum/post/16981745


Cheap=
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsm88 /forum/post/16982093


and, of course, there are some fundamental differences in the technology - I tested out the epson for a month, 144" screen, light living room with ambient, the black levels were a noticable improvement over my ae900, but the screen door effect was a deal breaker - the wife wouldn't even consider it, not being familiar with the hobby or the terminology, she said, "it's like I'm watching everything through a screen door." DLP doesn't have that problem (though it can have RBE if you are so effected) and should be a something to consider if you're going for anything larger than a 120" screen.

jsm, are you saying you tested the 6500ub but you and the wife didn't like the screen door effect on a 144" screen?


I'm planning on doing a 150"ish screen...i'd hate to see that screen effect...RBE's don't affect me...


so far this is leaning me towards the HD20 or vivitek
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2lee240 /forum/post/16982671


jsm, are you saying you tested the 6500ub but you and the wife didn't like the screen door effect on a 144" screen?


I'm planning on doing a 150"ish screen...i'd hate to see that screen effect...RBE's don't affect me...


so far this is leaning me towards the HD20 or vivitek

yes, exactly. I was sitting there trying to tell myself that I couldn't really see the grid, knowing full well I could, because I really need a light cannon in my set-up and wanted to like the epson - but it was clearly there, and even an untrained viewer who wasn't looking for the SDE could see it plain as day. Now, when I mentioned this over on the epson forums I was told that I was imagining things, so take it with a grain of salt (or be amazed at the extent or denial to which folks will go to defend a purchase they've made.)


It appears that BenQ is going to have a direct competitor to the Optoma and Viv (which are at least cousins, if not twins) with some different lamp technology, so this would be one of those times I would say it is definitely worth waiting 6 weeks before pulling the trigger - as much as the field changes, these will be big changes in a short time period. Also, since Viv is trying to make a splash in HT quickly, coming out with their LED pj and such, it's possible they're adding more content to their version of the $999 1080p - worth waiting to see. Don't underestimate the marketing value of being the "best" pj of what will be the highest volume segment - some of those buyers will be moving into the high end in a few years, and taking a $50 loss on a better lens/processor could pay off far more than millions in advertising.


Who knows, Panasonic might surprise us with an AX300 1080p with smoothscreen (for SDE) and the light cannon of the 200 to make the decision even more interesting. But I doubt it.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsm88 /forum/post/16987632


yes, exactly. I was sitting there trying to tell myself that I couldn't really see the grid, knowing full well I could, because I really need a light cannon in my set-up and wanted to like the epson - but it was clearly there, and even an untrained viewer who wasn't looking for the SDE could see it plain as day. Now, when I mentioned this over on the epson forums I was told that I was imagining things, so take it with a grain of salt (or be amazed at the extent or denial to which folks will go to defend a purchase they've made.)


It appears that BenQ is going to have a direct competitor to the Optoma and Viv (which are at least cousins, if not twins) with some different lamp technology, so this would be one of those times I would say it is definitely worth waiting 6 weeks before pulling the trigger - as much as the field changes, these will be big changes in a short time period. Also, since Viv is trying to make a splash in HT quickly, coming out with their LED pj and such, it's possible they're adding more content to their version of the $999 1080p - worth waiting to see. Don't underestimate the marketing value of being the "best" pj of what will be the highest volume segment - some of those buyers will be moving into the high end in a few years, and taking a $50 loss on a better lens/processor could pay off far more than millions in advertising.


Who knows, Panasonic might surprise us with an AX300 1080p with smoothscreen (for SDE) and the light cannon of the 200 to make the decision even more interesting. But I doubt it.

Yes, the Benq is the one I am waiting for reports on, I have a hunch it might be a tad bit better that the other two (no facts, just a hunch).

I'm planning to go up from 120" to 133" so LCD is out for me, unless the AE3000u drops to $1000, it looked quite nice at CES...
 
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