[xkode2002]

Last night, my installer came by to do the final tweaking on my new Dwin TV3. I told him that I was looking to build an HTPC with DVI output to take advantage of the new developments in HDTV and WM9 HD DVDs (or whatever else comes down the line).


He warned me that because the Dwin scaler was HDCP compliant, the video card I was using must also be HDCP compliant or the two would not work together.


This seems like a flawed concept and I'm not sure that it's right. In my mind, it's the video source (e.g., the DVD player or HDTV STB) that would refuse to output its signal to a non-HDCP compliant display device or processor (e.g., the Dwin TV3 scaler) but I can't understand why a display device would refuse to accept a signal from a source that didn't do HDCP.


Is he right?? (If yes, are there video cards that are HDCP compliant?)

 

[Bob Williams]

All DVI/HDCP receivers will also accept plain DVI without HDCP encryption.

 

[NormP]

xcode, Here's where having just a little knowledge (certainly me but probably not you) could be deadly- Yesterday as my guys were installing my TV3 they were not able to use a DVI connection between the Sony HD200 and the TV3 as the two are not compatible, and they said that a fix was planned to the TV3. Here's where the little knowledge part comes in- that's all I know and my installers could not explain the problem further. This might be related to your problem, I'd guess.


Early Adopters Rule

 

[DigitalAV]

Exactly. xkode, at the moment your TV3 will do the exact opposite that your installer said it would: it CAN accept non-HDCP DVI signals (e.g. from an HTPC w/ a DVI-out video card), but CANNOT (yet) accept HDCP DVI signals (e.g. from an HD STB). This will change with the fix NormP mentioned via a board w/ updated chipset that your dealer will install/replace in your external transcanner box. Your TV3 will then be able to accept both HDCP and non-HDCP DVI signals.

 

[DigitalAV]

Here is a quote from mark haflich in your previous Wooo hooo!!! My Dwin TV3 Ships Monday! thread:

Quote:

Originally posted by mark haflich Just got an interesting fax from Dwin about the previously discussed unspecified glitch in the DVI/HDCP receiver chip in the TV3. The gist of the fax is that the chip will work fine with all current sources but "may be incompatible with some potential future [redundant] DVI/HDCP sources in regards to copy protection." The fax goes on to say that a new glitch free chip will be available in about 3 months and that Dwin will provide a new DVI input board with the updated (glitch free) chip in 3 months. Dwin will provide each dealer with a new board and instructions for easy board replacement free of cost for every TV3 purchased. Dealers are obligated to do the board switch for their customers for free and to return the old board to Dwin. Dealers must agree to do this if they want their orders to be filled. Sounds like a deal to me.

I am of the opinion that DWIN is trying to cover their ass and suger-coat the fact that currently their TV3 does NOT have HDCP support of ANY kind (as proven by NormP's inability to succesfully use his Sony HD200) by dismissing it as a mere "glitch". Also, I am going to calibrate a customer's TV3 on Saturday who supposedly has the exact same issue (not surprisingly...all TV3 owners will share this inability).


Yes, it's nice that the fix will (hopefully) be quick and painless...and their design will allow for easy future fixes/upgrades (if ever the case); HOWEVER, don't be fooled by DWIN's spin on an arguably major malfunction being a "glitch" that "may [only] be incompatible with some...future DVI/HDCP sources." We now have solid proof that this is simply not true.


Please don't get me wrong, though. I myself am in the market for a FP, and the TV3 is actually at the top of my list. Hopefully that won't change on Saturday after my full calibration.

 

[mark haflich]

What about non HDCP encoded signals coming from the sat receiver box? As I understand it (and yes I can be and often am wrong ) most DVI signals coming from the sat receiver at present will not be encoded.


If your analysis is correct, the Dwin should be able to handle these now but your installers say it can't? If the DVi in doesn't presently have an HDCP decoding chip (look boys you can easily see if it is there), then it wouldn't be able to decode HDCP but it could input and output non encoded DVi.


Why should Dwin lie? If its present DVI input board doesn't have a HDCP receiver chip on it, why wouldn't Dwin just say it doesn't but one with it will be supplied for swap out shortly? Naw, Dwin should lie so that say an AVS most casual observer can easily catch them in the lie.


None of this makes any sense, but what the AVS do I know? Maybe there is no working DVi input board at all, just a couple of dummy DVi inputs. Then DVi from the sat box wouldn't work at all. Yup, that must be it.


Then again maybe the DVI out from the sat box is not turned on or is not working. Did your installer verify the presence of a DVI signal? I bet two posts a non encoded DVI in will work just fine. Posts are cheap.


Don't be shy. Come on in. The waters fine.

 

[DigitalAV]

Excellent point. I'm just as confused ...hopefully I'll have more answers on Saturday. Maybe this means that it currently has no DVI support at all at the moment. Maybe the glitch is that even if HDCP isn't used on the signal, but the source has HDCP circuitry present, you get no picture. Has anyone here who has had first-hand experience with the TV3 (owners, dealers, CES goers) ever seen a successful use of any DVI source?

 

[DigitalAV]

Also, FWIW, the installer said he was completely unimpressed with the picture, which pretty much goes against every single reaction I've read regarding the TV3 from first-hand witnesses. In addition, this isn't my installer, and I have actually never met this guy before (I'm strictly a calibrator), so I'm taking his views with a grain of salt smaller than a grain of salt that a grain of salt would take his assessments with.

 

[mark haflich]

Nice post. Seriously.


You say you are going to calibrate a TV3 on Saturday?

I doubt it because Dwin will not give out the access code you will need to access the controls used for a calibration.


All you will be able to do is to adjust contrast, brightness, color, tint, sharpness etc but that is about it. As you know, that is an adjustment of video parameters that will take you less than 10 minutes per source and not a calibration. This hoarding of the code is being discussed in another thread.

 

[DigitalAV]

Well don't tell my customer that!


Seriously though, our dealers sell the equipment, have it installed, and then call us to calibrate it. So, regardless if we can get the codes or not, I'll be there on Saturday and do what I can to hopefully make the customer happier. If you think for some reason that I'm lying about going to a customer's house to work on his TV3...well, I really don't know what to say to that other than "oh well". I guess I'll try to take some pictures and post them here, but this is starting to get weird and rediculous.


Also, I'm getting the feeling you're somehow taking unnecessary offence to my posts and/or misreading them or something. I'm in full agreement with everything you've said, and it is the installer's initial views of the TV3 that I don't trust, not yours.

 

[mark haflich]

No. I am not making fun of you at all. I am NOT accusing you of lying. I am just saying that because the code is not being made available you will not be able to perform a gray scale calibration or a gamma customization. Ditto for adjusting the chromacity points. You will be able to do several things that are part of a calibration. This is not good but it certainly not your fault. I just do not want you to be surprised when you get there.


I just recently learned of the access code withholding. So few of the TV3 are out there yet, most, including you, I believe, do not know that the controls are within the service mode and are not accessible to owners, dealers, or calibrators. Hopefully this will change (i.e., that the head of Dwin will authorize his staff to release the code).


Once again, I meant no disrespect by my last post. I have seen many installations significantly improved by a proper calibration. Most who own a DLP do not undertake to have their set up calibrated to their screen and particular machine particularly after the bulb accumulates 50 or so hours. Those who do not get a calibration do not get the full performance of the machine they have purchased. You certainly know what I mean. I would suggest with respect to any machine that the calibration be performed after the machine has broken in a bit rather than right after installation.