[HDfury]

anyway, am i any closer to getting this thing resolved? sure seems like a lot of back and forth just to get the box to split a 4k signal? frankly tho, i could live with how it is opertaing now given that i can at least now use my projector with the 4ktv off, but given the price i would kind of like it to work fully, i.e. display the stats on the pj screen, give me accurate info on the oled, etc.

Yes right, but lot of back and forth, just cause oled miss lock information mainly, so that we are going to fix next week, should make it much easier.
There is more likely something with the TCL TV, see my previous answer, see if you can try turning off CEC features and try the newer firmware link i posted and please confirm state of TCL TV when you took the picture.

I'll check your TCL usermanual later, yet i'm not sure it would help, your CEC test results would more likely be of more help and if no go, then we will buy same TV and check it.
So i cannot tell you right now how long we need to fix the issue fully, as it could be small settings on TV or something we must take care of via FW update.

 

[aeneas01]

Do you mean the TCL TV was OFF when you took this picture ? If yes, can you try to turn off any CEC option from TCL
Please keep lumagen before the 25ft in your testing, till we find out the issue.

Also, see if you have same results with this below fw (remember to do the trick after you flash new firmware)
https://hdfury.com/tools/Vertex_1.14.1.19_GUI_1.14.zip

> yes, all of the pictures i've posted that show no input (rx0/in0) signal are with the tv off, with just the projector on, when i turn on the tv everything on the vertex lights up, input (oppo), side light, etc.

> the first thing i do when i get new av equipment s turn cec off, it's off on the pj, tv, oppo, etc., has never been on since i installed the vertex.

> yes, the lumagen is before the 25' cable, always has been, i took it out of the loop once and connected the 25' cable directly to the vertex just to see if the lumagen was causing the prob, but the vertex behavior was identical with and without the lumagen in the loop, so i put the lumagen back in the loop before the 25' cable.

> i'll try the new firmaware.

 

[aeneas01]

"Default = 1, Active trick = 0"

Yeah, that whole bs with 0 and 1 is confusing. It should be the other way around. The "Active trick" should be designated as 1 (true, trick is performed). Not as 0. But i guess you and me are the only ones who can think in a normal, logical way.

i think my problem is the vertex was "tailored for av purists" and i'm not an av purist, instead i'm just some mook who threw money at a box hoping that it would split a 4k signal without down-rezing to 1080p, ha ha... hell, "y" and "n" makes more sense to me than "0" and "1" but what do i know, apparently there's a reason numbers need to be used! heck, i'm still stoked that i recently discovered that rx0 and in0 are the same thing!

seriously tho, i marvel at these tech guys, have nothing but the upmost respect for them, even tho my frustration may seem to imply otherwise at times... honestly, if i could do it all over again i would love to do what these guys do, it just blows me away...

in other news, the firmware upgrade went smoothly, hopefully it will do the trick, won't be able to test it until this evening, have to wait until everything has been powered off for a while to see if it actually sticks, i've been fooled in the past, in that it always seems to work if i power everything off and then power everything on shortly after, within 10 minutes or so, but i soon discovered that if i waited a half an our or so to power things back on, i was back to square one with the projector not working without the tv, alas...

btw, through all of this the tv edid has always seemed to stick in the oled, at restart and after turning everything off, while the pj edid would either not show in the oled at restart (it would show as not connected), and when it eventually did would revert back to not connected shortly after everything was powered off... would setting a custom edid for the pj, for tx1, fix this assuming it's what causing the prob?

 

[HDfury]

btw, through all of this the tv edid has always seemed to stick in the oled, at restart and after turning everything off, while the pj edid would either not show in the oled at restart (it would show as not connected), and when it eventually did would revert back to not connected shortly after everything was powered off... would setting a custom edid for the pj, for tx1, fix this assuming it's what causing the prob?

Yes exactly what i noted too, but it's not the PJ i guess, it seems to be the TV (its standby mode) but i can be wrong (either input behavior or edid is crashing vertex apparently), can you tell me to which input on TCL you are connected to ? and confirm you tried other and have same behavior.
You can confirm issue is with TCL by connecting another TV there, but if you don't have or cannot, our devs should find out from the TV EDID, if not, we will get same TV and fix it. (if i'm right, just wait devs confirmation)

EDIT: Reading your TV usermanual, can you try to change/reverse the settings you have for "Fast TV Start" see if it changes anything. Please confirm if the TV is connected to internet and have latest FW running.

EDIT2: Another test that could make sense is when TV is OFF, remove its powercord and see if behavior is different. That should tell us if it's EDID issue or TV behavior related.

 

[Dave Vaughn]

@HDfury will there be a V3.0 of the JVC firmware upcoming?

 

[aeneas01]

Yes exactly what i noted too, but it's not the PJ i guess, it seems to be the TV (its standby mode) but i can be wrong (either input behavior or edid is crashing vertex apparently), can you tell me to which input on TCL you are connected to ? and confirm you tried other and have same behavior.
You can confirm issue is with TCL by connecting another TV there, but if you don't have or cannot, our devs should find out from the TV EDID, if not, we will get same TV and fix it. (if i'm right, just wait devs confirmation)

EDIT: Reading your TV usermanual, can you try to change/reverse the settings you have for "Fast TV Start" see if it changes anything. Please confirm if the TV is connected to internet and have latest FW running.

EDIT2: Another test that could make sense is when TV is OFF, remove its powercord and see if behavior is different. That should tell us if it's EDID issue or TV behavior related.

> the vertex is connected to the tv's hdmi 1 input (non-arc).
> haven't tried other hdmi inputs, will do.
> the tv is connected wirelessly to the net, has the latest firmware.
> i don't have immediate access to another tv to test.
> i'll play with the tv's fast start setting as suggested.
> i'll remove the power cord as suggested.

 

[Kazz063]

Ok, If you cannot access windows GUI, can you try play a UHD BR movies and take OLED picture please ?

Your current setup is:
Source Oppo 203> 1.8m Cert Premium HDMI Cable copper > Marantz SR7010 > 1.8m Cert Premium HDMI Cable, copper, > Vertex > Ruipro 10m Hybrid HDMI > JVC X5000 projector
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> 1.8m copper HDMI > Panasonic non UHD Plasma TV

Can you try:
Source Oppo 203> 1.8m Cert Premium HDMI Cable copper > Marantz SR7010 > Ruipro 10m Hybrid HDMI > Vertex > 1.8m Cert Premium HDMI Cable, copper > JVC X5000 projector
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> 1.8m copper HDMI > Panasonic non UHD Plasma TV

Or this way:
Source Oppo 203> 1.8m Cert Premium HDMI Cable copper > Vertex > 1.8m Cert Premium HDMI Cable, copper >Marantz SR7010 > Ruipro 10m Hybrid HDMI > JVC X5000 projector
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> 1.8m copper HDMI > Panasonic non UHD Plasma TV

this is in order to see if the issue is Vertex not able to power and read thru the Ruipro. (which is more likely the issue since the cable is taking power from HDMI and does not have its own power supply, Vertex does not have enough available current to power those cables without adding a 5.25V PSU, such as our universal power supply port 1 or using a shorter/thicker USB power cord)

Changing cable config is not an easy option in my setup (and not possible right now as I'm about to head out to work) and I'm not sure what that would achieve as the issue is not getting a signal to the PJ via the Ruipro as that works fine, the issue is getting the 1080p tv to accept a signal from the 4k sources and this worked perfectly on the last fw I had on the Vertex which was 1.10.1.15.

EDIT:Just quickly tried the pj setup and now I get nothing on that either. As I said this all worked perfectly on the previous fw I had on the vertex. Wish I’d left well enough alone.

Config .txt attached

 

[fir3drag0n]

Okay, the vertex now works in my setup with 4k hdr and ambilight.

Today, I tested Dolby Vision with a Chromecast Ultra as input and my OLED B7D and my musou hdmi to av converter for my ambilight. But it didn't work as the ambilight colors were wrong (mostly pink) and the color change was slow.
My tv showed a perfect dv movie, no issues there.

Do you have an idea what I could possibly do in order to get it working? I already played with the settings (RGB 8bit), but nothing changed. Hyperion is the software which grabs the image information.

 

[aeneas01]

Yes exactly what i noted too, but it's not the PJ i guess, it seems to be the TV (its standby mode) but i can be wrong (either input behavior or edid is crashing vertex apparently), can you tell me to which input on TCL you are connected to ? and confirm you tried other and have same behavior.
You can confirm issue is with TCL by connecting another TV there, but if you don't have or cannot, our devs should find out from the TV EDID, if not, we will get same TV and fix it. (if i'm right, just wait devs confirmation)

EDIT: Reading your TV usermanual, can you try to change/reverse the settings you have for "Fast TV Start" see if it changes anything. Please confirm if the TV is connected to internet and have latest FW running.

EDIT2: Another test that could make sense is when TV is OFF, remove its powercord and see if behavior is different. That should tell us if it's EDID issue or TV behavior related.

so the firmware update didn't solve my prob - when i turn on everything except for the tv (oppo, lumagen, projector) the vertex oled still doesn't show the oppo as the input device (it shows no signal), the side logo doesn't light up, and the vertex stats aren't displayed...

per your suggestion i unplugged the tv in the above state, even tho it was already off, and the vertex came to life, the oppo displayed as the input, the side logo lit up, and the stats displayed on the pj screen... it had the same effect as turning on the tv.

i'll play around with switching the hdmi input on the tv, and fast start was already set to off, i'll see if setting to on makes a difference, but i don't think they will, because iirc i've already done this, at least i'm positive i've already tested fast start a while back...

 

[HDfury]

@HDfury will there be a V3.0 of the JVC firmware upcoming?

The FW i posted above should already have one of Manni request, we wait his confirmation to know if it is as expected or not.

Changing cable config is not an easy option in my setup (and not possible right now as I'm about to head out to work) and I'm not sure what that would achieve as the issue is not getting a signal to the PJ via the Ruipro as that works fine, the issue is getting the 1080p tv to accept a signal from the 4k sources and this worked perfectly on the last fw I had on the Vertex which was 1.10.1.15.

EDIT:Just quickly tried the pj setup and now I get nothing on that either. As I said this all worked perfectly on the previous fw I had on the vertex. Wish I’d left well enough alone.

Config .txt attached

Ok, first you can reverse to any previous firmware at anytime, so feel free to install 1.10.1.15 and verify if it still works.
If you read the end of the first post, there is an explanation for Active cable that does not come with their own powersupply (which is the case for your RUIPRO), that's why the tests i outlined are important to understand if that is the issue or not.
Some tests are just asked to put things out of equation and conclude.

Okay, the vertex now works in my setup with 4k hdr and ambilight.

Today, I tested Dolby Vision with a Chromecast Ultra as input and my OLED B7D and my musou hdmi to av converter for my ambilight. But it didn't work as the ambilight colors were wrong (mostly pink) and the color change was slow.
My tv showed a perfect dv movie, no issues there.

Do you have an idea what I could possibly do in order to get it working? I already played with the settings (RGB 8bit), but nothing changed. Hyperion is the software which grabs the image information.

You CANNOT downscale Dolby Vision ! you are killing Dolby Vision while doing that ! (as long as the DV implementation is like any other current one, means thru a RGB container)
Dolby Vision, if it have to work, have to pass-thru, any operation on the signal will kill Dolby Vision.

so the firmware update didn't solve my prob - when i turn on everything except for the tv (oppo, lumagen, projector) the vertex oled still doesn't show the oppo as the input device (it shows no signal), the side logo doesn't light up, and the vertex stats aren't displayed...

per your suggestion i unplugged the tv in the above state, even tho it was already off, and the vertex came to life, the oppo displayed as the input, the side logo lit up, and the stats displayed on the pj screen... it had the same effect as turning on the tv.

i'll play around with switching the hdmi input on the tv, and fast start was already set to off, i'll see if setting to on makes a difference, but i don't think they will, because iirc i've already done this, at least i'm positive i've already tested fast start a while back...

That's the test results we wanted to hear, so now we know, the issue comes from TCL standby mode. (you can try playing with standby/power saving options too)
I'll get back to you shortly, waiting devs input.

 

[aeneas01]

That's the test results we wanted to hear, so now we know, the issue comes from TCL standby mode. (you can try playing with standby/power saving options too) I'll get back to you shortly, waiting devs input.

so it looks like things are finally working as they should, i've had time to shut the devices down for a stretch of time and when powered back on everything is working well without the tv turned on, the vertex oled lights up as it should and switching oppo sources no longer causes the projector to lose the signal... as mentioned before, leaving the devices off for a stretch of time was problematic before as it would cause the vertex to revert back to not working properly when powered on again, but that no longer seems to be happening.

could it be that simply unplugging and re-plugging the tv fixed it? it's one of the few things i hadn't tried during this whole process... i also switched fast start from disabled to enabled, but it's hard to believe that is what fixed things given i also had it enabled when everything didn't work, but switched it to disabled hoping it would help .... i suppose i could confirm if this was the culprit by disabling it again but i'm reluctant to do so given everything is working now....

here's what the vertex now looks like with everything powered on but the tv:

 

[Manni01]

The FW i posted above should already have one of Manni request, we wait his confirmation to know if it is as expected or not.

Hi, sorry for the late confirmation but yesterday was a busy family day, I only was able to test late in the evening.

Yes, happy to confirm that the auto algo behaves in an optimal way now for all titles, selecting automatically the 1100nits or 4000nits curve according to content. I'm hoping we'll be able to support an optional third curve soon for HDR10 in auto mode as they are now included in the pack. Please get in touch when you're ready to discuss this.

Custom / semi-auto was already working optimally if set-up according to the instructions in the guide, so if you want to support three curves (1100, 2200 and 4000nits curve selected automatically) it remains the only option for now.

Thanks to the devs (and to you) for the excellent work, as always

 

[HDfury]

so it looks like things are finally working as they should, i've had time to shut the devices down for a stretch of time and when powered back on everything is working well without the tv turned on, the vertex oled lights up as it should and switching oppo sources no longer causes the projector to lose the signal... as mentioned before, leaving the devices off for a stretch of time was problematic before as it would cause the vertex to revert back to not working properly when powered on again, but that no longer seems to be happening.

could it be that simply unplugging and re-plugging the tv fixed it? it's one of the few things i hadn't tried during this whole process... i also switched fast start from disabled to enabled, but it's hard to believe that is what fixed things given i also had it enabled when everything didn't work, but switched it to disabled hoping it would help .... i suppose i could confirm if this was the culprit by disabling it again but i'm reluctant to do so given everything is working now....

here's what the vertex now looks like with everything powered on but the tv:

Issue is not really solved, but since you have fast start, then it's like your TV is still ON, as you can see, Vertex is currently sending a signal and your TV accept it (despite TV display is off). that's why it works.
The problem is TCL standby mode. So i have read in your usermanual quite a few options you can try for power saving mode. We might still have to buy same TV to see what exactly is happening when it is in its default standby mode (still waiting devs input).

But at least, yes, now we know exactly what the issue is and with some time, support will be perfect for it.

Hi, sorry for the late confirmation but yesterday was a busy family day, I only was able to test late in the evening.

Yes, happy to confirm that the auto algo behaves in an optimal way now for all titles, selecting automatically the 1100nits or 4000nits curve according to content. I'm hoping we'll be able to support an optional third curve soon for HDR10 in auto mode as they are now included in the pack. Please get in touch when you're ready to discuss this.

Custom / semi-auto was already working optimally if set-up according to the instructions in the guide, so if you want to support three curves (1100, 2200 and 4000nits curve selected automatically) it remains the only option for now.

Thanks to the devs (and to you) for the excellent work, as always

Thank you manni, yes, you can keep sending requests, we will make this release official once we have lock icon added.

 

[Kazz063]

Ok, first you can reverse to any previous firmware at anytime, so feel free to install 1.10.1.15 and verify if it still works.
If you read the end of the first post, there is an explanation for Active cable that does not come with their own powersupply (which is the case for your RUIPRO), that's why the tests i outlined are important to understand if that is the issue or not.
Some tests are just asked to put things out of equation and conclude.

Hi HDFury thanks for the reply, that makes sense about the cable testing except that the problem is with both the ruipro run and the short cable run and didn’t exist immediately before I did the few upgrade. I'm glad to hear I can go back to the former fw and I’ll give that a try first, if still no joy I’ll do the cable testing but that will need to wait until the weekend.

To go back to the previous fw do I just do it as I would normally do a fw upgrade?

 

[HDfury]

Hi HDFury thanks for the reply, that makes sense about the cable testing except that the problem is with both the ruipro run and the short cable run and didn’t exist immediately before I did the few upgrade. I'm glad to hear I can go back to the former fw and I’ll give that a try first, if still no joy I’ll do the cable testing but that will need to wait until the weekend.

To go back to the previous fw do I just do it as I would normally do a fw upgrade?

Yes absolutely you can downgrade/upgrade at will, no problem.
Let us know test results.

 

[HDfury]

New Vertex iOS/Android APP + GoBlue FW1.26

GoBlue FW1.26 and new Vertex iOS/Android APP are now live !

Add Vertex GUI 1.14 features and IR support for it.

 

[aeneas01]

Issue is not really solved, but since you have fast start, then it's like your TV is still ON, as you can see, Vertex is currently sending a signal and your TV accept it (despite TV display is off). that's why it works.
The problem is TCL standby mode. So i have read in your usermanual quite a few options you can try for power saving mode. We might still have to buy same TV to see what exactly is happening when it is in standby mode (still waiting devs input).

But at least, yes, now we know exactly what the issue is and with some time, support will be perfect for it.

i was going to add an edit to my previous post but it applies to your above response... yes, the vertex still sees the tv as on, or at least "connected"... when i power everything off the oled reads:

input - no signal

tx1 - edid not available
off or not connected (this has also reported something like "off or in standby mode")

tx0 - 55p607 edid: 4k60 444 hdr bt 2020
connected

so the tv, like before, seems to always be recognized as connected by the vertex, even when everything is powered off... the difference now is that when i turn everything on expect the tv, the vertex oled now lights up and tx0 shows 4k59.934 444 bt709 8b 593mhz 2.2 under the edid line instead of just "connected"... in short, at least it's now functional when i use the projector alone.

 

[HDfury]

i was going to add an edit to my previous post but it applies to your above response... yes, the vertex still sees the tv as on, or at least "connected"... when i power everything off the oled reads:

input - no signal

tx1 - edid not available
off or not connected (this has also reported something like "off or in standby mode")

tx0 - 55p607 edid: 4k60 444 hdr bt 2020
connected

so the tv, like before, seems to always be recognized as connected by the vertex, even when everything is powered off... the difference now is that when i turn everything on expect the tv, the vertex oled now lights up and tx0 shows 4k59.934 444 bt709 8b 593mhz 2.2 under the edid line instead of just "connected"... in short, at least it's now functional when i use the projector alone.

Yes all correct, with "fast start" you have a temp fix or work around until we fix it fully. Just give it some time.

 

[Kazz063]

Ok, If you cannot access windows GUI, can you try play a UHD BR movies and take OLED picture please ?

Your current setup is:
Source Oppo 203> 1.8m Cert Premium HDMI Cable copper > Marantz SR7010 > 1.8m Cert Premium HDMI Cable, copper, > Vertex > Ruipro 10m Hybrid HDMI > JVC X5000 projector
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> 1.8m copper HDMI > Panasonic non UHD Plasma TV

Can you try:
Source Oppo 203> 1.8m Cert Premium HDMI Cable copper > Marantz SR7010 > Ruipro 10m Hybrid HDMI > Vertex > 1.8m Cert Premium HDMI Cable, copper > JVC X5000 projector
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> 1.8m copper HDMI > Panasonic non UHD Plasma TV

Or this way:
Source Oppo 203> 1.8m Cert Premium HDMI Cable copper > Vertex > 1.8m Cert Premium HDMI Cable, copper >Marantz SR7010 > Ruipro 10m Hybrid HDMI > JVC X5000 projector
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> 1.8m copper HDMI > Panasonic non UHD Plasma TV

this is in order to see if the issue is Vertex not able to power and read thru the Ruipro. (which is more likely the issue since the cable is taking power from HDMI and does not have its own power supply, Vertex does not have enough available current to power those cables without adding a 5.25V PSU, such as our universal power supply port 1 or using a shorter/thicker USB power cord)

Ok so I've downgraded to the earlier fw and still no joy, but with these cable changes you want me to try I'm not sure what I'm suppoed to do with the cable setup to the 1080p tv.

 

[HDfury]

Ok so I've downgraded to the earlier fw and still no joy, but with these cable changes you want me to try I'm not sure what I'm suppoed to do with the cable setup to the 1080p tv.

Make sure you always perform HOLD RST + INP 2 times then powercycle after any FW update. (you can post config as txt file for us to verify until new fw show lock icon on oled)

You have 1.8m copper going to 1080p TV, so you can keep it as it is.
We are just asking you to move the RUIPRO from Vertex output to confirm that's the issue. (i'm 99% sure that's the issue)
Remember this is just to isolate the issue, if this confirms the issue is RUIPRO at Vertex output, you will still be able to use it at Vertex output but you would need thicker/shorter USB powercord and/or 5.25V PSU.