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This is a point that should be obvious to everyone, but it seems to me that it gets lost in the multitude of arguements over BD vrs HD-DVD and HD optical versus HD digital.


The consumer is not going to buy into HD unless they have a HDTV. It doesn't matter if its downloads, BD, HD-DVD, or rentals. At this point HDTV's haven't penetrated a large portion of the population. Untill they do people are not going to buy into HD or any kind.


If someone can afford to buy a $700 to $5000 TV, then you'd think they could afford to buy a $200 - $500 DL Box or Player to take advantage of their new purchase. If you have the money to spend only then do "features, studio exclusivness, profiles" matter.


Having read these forums for the last 4 to 5 months I can see that people are just not looking at the big picture. You have to be wealthy to enjoy any part of the HD experience right now. $1500 TV, $400 HD player, $600 HD reciever, $1000 speakers, that's almost $3500 for just a decent setup. A really nice setup can cost $10,000 or more. Hell people can spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on this stuff. Your regular guy just walks by the row of HDTV's at BB and drools as his wife drags him past by the arm. If HD is niche then it's niche because of the cost. The cost of every part of the HD experience ought to go down.


Consumers are going to be happy with their SD TV's and DVD's untill it costs $1000 to get a decent setup. My humble opinion.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehaser /forum/post/12865820


If someone can afford to buy a $700 to $5000 TV, then you'd think they could afford to buy a $200 - $500 DL Box or Player to take advantage of their new purchase.

But most consumers don't buy the player to take full advantage of their HDTVs. It's much easier to sell consumers on flat-screen HDTVs, because they are huge and look high-tech. A $1500 flat-screen HDTV feels like it's expensive and worth the price tag. But a $400 DL Box or HDM Player is a much tougher sell. Consumers already have "free" cable-boxes, and $50 DVD players. They're all just boxes, there's nothing tangible that makes one box feel like it should cost more than another box.
 

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If that's the case why is it that HDM and players (standalone) are selling at the same pace as dvd was comparatively and that from a market which is 1/3 the size of the market when dvd was introduced (given the fact you didn't need a "special" tv to move from vhs to dvd)?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HPforMe /forum/post/12866073


If that's the case why is it that HDM and players (standalone) are selling at the same pace as dvd was comparatively and that from a market which is 1/3 the size of the market when dvd was introduced (given the fact you didn't need a "special" tv to move from vhs to dvd)?


Are they?


Strip out the PS3's and the 360 AO - then tell us that HDM is doing as well as DVD.
 

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Another argument that backs what the OP was saying... while a family may eventually own an HDTV by 2010, they will most likely only one ONE. That's right 1.


This means, there's less likely a chance that they will get blu-ray or hd dvd because it means they can only play the high def movie on one tv. That means their kid's My little pony 13" crt with built in dvd player isnt going to work. Now, even if prices fell, and they get a new HDTV for the kid, do you think they are going to buy blu-ray player along with that?


When HDM players fall down to 50-80 each, there just wont be enough HDTVs in each household for one to buy 2-3 of them for their house..you didnt need to upgrade your $150 SDTV to take advantage of DVD.
 

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Most consumers are only thinking about HD discs right now when they walk past the endcaps at B&Ms and even then it's a passing thought. Few people are interested in spending the money to replace their entire DVD library only to be able to play HD movies on 1 of the likely 4-5 players in their house.


So they continue buying DVDs and call it a day.


Then there's the crowd who only buys HD discs when there's a CGI filled special effects based title they feel warrants it. They still go out and buy comedies, dramas and the like on DVD.


HDTV adoption, entrenchment of DVD in the average consumer's home and regular activities, the thought that HD is only worth it for the special effects, not wanting to replace an entire library of films collected on DVD, price of players and movies, the fact that they already get HD movies from their cable/sat/fiber provider....


These are all factors going through J6Ps mind when looking at that HD disc endcap.


Guess what wins in the end?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehaser /forum/post/12865820


Consumers are going to be happy with their SD TV's and DVD's untill it costs $1000 to get a decent setup. My humble opinion.

I think there are a ton of consumers out there who are perfectly happy with their SD TV and will not buy an HDTV until their SD one breaks. A television is an appliance. A lot of people don't go out and buy a new dishwasher or fridge unless they need to... same for TVs.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehaser /forum/post/12865820


This is a point that should be obvious to everyone, but it seems to me that it gets lost in the multitude of arguements over BD vrs HD-DVD and HD optical versus HD digital.


The consumer is not going to buy into HD unless they have a HDTV. It doesn't matter if its downloads, BD, HD-DVD, or rentals. At this point HDTV's haven't penetrated a large portion of the population. Untill they do people are not going to buy into HD or any kind.


If someone can afford to buy a $700 to $5000 TV, then you'd think they could afford to buy a $200 - $500 DL Box or Player to take advantage of their new purchase. If you have the money to spend only then do "features, studio exclusivness, profiles" matter.


Having read these forums for the last 4 to 5 months I can see that people are just not looking at the big picture. You have to be wealthy to enjoy any part of the HD experience right now. $1500 TV, $400 HD player, $600 HD reciever, $1000 speakers, that's almost $3500 for just a decent setup. A really nice setup can cost $10,000 or more. Hell people can spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on this stuff. Your regular guy just walks by the row of HDTV's at BB and drools as his wife drags him past by the arm. If HD is niche then it's niche because of the cost. The cost of every part of the HD experience ought to go down.


Consumers are going to be happy with their SD TV's and DVD's untill it costs $1000 to get a decent setup. My humble opinion.

Wow, did J6P just get even dumber? His new $1500 TV won't work without $1000 speakers? Dang my $3000 Tv only has less then $500 in speakers how can I make this right? Too bad there isn't a way to buy just the TV now and add parts as they see fit. Or too bad BD players won't work at all unless you spend at least $1500 on a TV.


IMO most people don't go out and drop $10000 on entire HD set ups all at once. (I bet people that do are spending much more then $10000 for their set ups) There are millions of HDTVs in the US right now. Everyday more sell and sooner or later some of them add on OTA HD, HD Sat or cable or HD disc players. Then maybe this christmas they'll add a reciever and/or speakers.
 

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Wonder how many HD cable and Satellite boxes there are?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart /forum/post/12866168


Are they?


Strip out the PS3's and the 360 AO - then tell us that HDM is doing as well as DVD.

I just told you standalone which then includes Xbox 360 standalone HD DVD player. Not the PS3. And please go back 10 years ago rather than trying to suggest there is a comparison NOW. This is a growth industry and you don't judge it by the current status compared to dvd.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by stumlad /forum/post/12866318


Another argument that backs what the OP was saying... while a family may eventually own an HDTV by 2010, they will most likely only one ONE. That's right 1.


This means, there's less likely a chance that they will get blu-ray or hd dvd because it means they can only play the high def movie on one tv. That means their kid's My little pony 13" crt with built in dvd player isnt going to work. Now, even if prices fell, and they get a new HDTV for the kid, do you think they are going to buy blu-ray player along with that?


When HDM players fall down to 50-80 each, there just wont be enough HDTVs in each household for one to buy 2-3 of them for their house..you didnt need to upgrade your $150 SDTV to take advantage of DVD.

This is a good point, but when HD players get cheap enough families will get another one to hook up to the kid's TV -- especially if they own a lot of HD kids movies.
 

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People with HDTVs have a choice. Buy a really good upscaling DVD player that works with all their discs and tens of thousands of other ones, or buy an HDM player that works with a few hundred available discs.


The first option offers really good picture quality, and the second one offers great PQ.


For most people the answer is, save alot of money, have far greater choice, and go with the big improvement instead of the great improvement in PQ.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Everdog /forum/post/12867126


People with HDTVs have a choice. Buy a really good upscaling DVD player that works with all their discs and tens of thousands of other ones, or buy an HDM player that works with a few hundred available discs.and upscales 10 of thousands of others.


The first option offers really good picture quality, and the second one offers great PQ. and good PQ in the same unit.


For most people the answer is, save alot of money, have far greater choice, and go with the big improvement instead of the great improvement in PQ.

Now you can buy your favorites in HD and lesser in sd so you can save money where you want and go wild where you want. Kinda like sweats for hanging around the house and levis for goin out.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart /forum/post/12866168


Are they?


Strip out the PS3's and the 360 AO - then tell us that HDM is doing as well as DVD.

Yes they are. DVD only sold 300,000 players in the first year. HDM has outsold that easily even without the PS3 and 360.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Everdog /forum/post/12867126


People with HDTVs have a choice. Buy a really good upscaling DVD player that works with all their discs and tens of thousands of other ones, or buy an HDM player that works with a few hundred available discs.

I heard a rumor that HDM players not only play DVDs but up convert them as well. Just a rumor of course.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehaser /forum/post/12865820



Having read these forums for the last 4 to 5 months I can see that people are just not looking at the big picture. You have to be wealthy to enjoy any part of the HD experience right now. $1500 TV, $400 HD player, $600 HD reciever, $1000 speakers, that's almost $3500 for just a decent setup. .

I'm sorry but I have decent setup and it didn't cost anything near that and most of it was bought a few years ago when prices were higher. If you're talking high end enthusiast then yes but I thought you were making the point for mainstream acceptance. For average Joe the price would be more like


40" Widescreen LCD $1000 - $1500

Blu Ray player $400

All in one surround system $200 - $600


Total cost $1600 - $2500
 

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To the original poster. If you feel that way why are you wasting your time in the HDTV Software Media Discussion forum. Shouldn't you be over in a SD forum. After all I don't go over there and piss on your media. And I would suggest that it is you that doesn't see the big picture. None of this is about how many widgets have been sold to date. It is about how many will be sold over the next 5 - 10 years. HDTVs are flying out out of the big box stores and time will kill off the remaining SD TVs.


To the red fans that just have to jump on these threads. If we all nod our heads and agree the end of home entertainment is here now that HD DVD is dead will you go away and let those of us that want to discuss HDM in peace carry on?


Being old enough to compare HDM to the many media formats before it all the way back to vynil I don't feel bad about where HDM is right now at all.
 

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i agree.... ive said this for a long time that both formats would have a steep uphill battle because for the first time ever people have to have a new tv before even considering any of these formats.


that alone will slow the adoption rate until 100% of people have hdtv... which will take a very very long time.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnj1958 /forum/post/12867358


All in one surround system $200 - $600

This includes a subwoofer TOO!?
Your joking right?



My subwoofer alone cost more than your quoted "all-in-one" surround system, never mind the other 5 speakers, receiver and cabling.


...Angelo
 
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