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What is the relationship between these two acronyms? Does the presence of an HDMI connector imply (guarantee) that HDCP is implemented? Why or why not? If not, how can we know when we purchase an HDMI equipped product that it will really pass an HDCP encrypted signal?
 

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I am also curious about this. I just got a Mitsu 57732 DLP with 2 HDMI connectors, and started reading tonight about how without HDCP you will not be able to view content in a year or 2 because everything will be protected by HDCP thru HDMI and DVI video connections.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdewey /forum/post/0


What is the relationship between these two acronyms? Does the presence of an HDMI connector imply (guarantee) that HDCP is implemented? Why or why not? If not, how can we know when we purchase an HDMI equipped product that it will really pass an HDCP encrypted signal?

No, not all HDMI ports are HDCP. Which comes to the poster below yours, I think you'll see that HDCP might not come on the majority of software anytime soon. The reason being is there is a large group who purchased HD sets, as early adopters, that have no HDCP capability. That would be a huge group of consumers with 3,4,5,6 and 7 year old sets, and some don't have HDMI, and even some that do aren't HDCP compliant. Would you really want to abondon those who really want HD, and showed it by purchasing a set when there was little software?
 

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All HDMI ports ARE "HDCP" enabled this is part of the required spec and built into the HDMI chipset..

However not all content is "HDCP" protected, this is up to the content provider to turn on.

Bottom line:

If you are using HDMI at both ends you are fully protected for any foreseeable security requirements
 

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Originally Posted by Brent McCall /forum/post/0


All HDMI ports ARE "HDCP" enabled this is part of the required spec and built into the HDMI chipset..

However not all content is "HDCP" protected, this is up to the content provider to turn on.

Bottom line:

If you are using HDMI at both ends you are fully protected for any foreseeable security requirements

This is not entirely correct. According to HDMI.org:


"The HDMI standard does not require HDCP. However, it is required by industry groups and governmental regulation."


"In the United States, the FCC has mandated that beginning July 1, 2005, all HDTVs 36 inches and larger labeled “Digital Cable Ready” must include either a DVI/HDCP or HDMI/HDCP interface. In addition, either a DVI/HDCP or HDMI/HDCP interface is required for:


-Models with screen sizes 25 to 35 inches: 50% of a manufacturer's or importer's models manufactured or imported after July 1, 2005; 100% of such models manufactured or imported after July 1, 2006.


-Models with screen sizes 13 to 24 inches: 100% of a manufacturer's or importer's models manufactured or imported after July 1, 2007. [Source: Code of Federal Regulations, Section 15.123]"


"The FCC approved HDCP as a "Digital Output Protection Technology" on August 4, 2004. Analog outputs from digital receivers do not require output protections, but the analog output must be limited to a resolution of 480p, which effectively limits sets with analog input to non-HD resolutions."


"In Europe, the European Information & Communications Technology Industry Association (EICTA) in 2005 mandated that all HDTVs displaying the “HD Ready” logo must include HDMI or DVI inputs and support for HDCP. In August 2005, the Cable and Satellite Broadcast Association of Asia (CASBAA) recommended that HDMI (or DVI) and HDCP 'be included on every set-top box capable of outputting uncompressed high definition content.'"
 

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Looks like you folks have been doing your homework! Products implementing HDMI are not required (from an HDMI specification and licensing perspective) to implement HDCP. HDCP is licensed by a separate organization (Digital Content Protection, LLC, which is a wholly owned subsidiary of Intel Corp). That said, it is indeed an industry and market requirement in most cases that HDCP be implemented in products designed to transmit or receive premium HD content (as the previous writer references). As a general rule, the only HDMI products we have seen that do not support HDCP are devices which are designed to playback personal content (ex. camcorders and still cameras). Personally, these portable devices are the only exception, and obviously you won't be missing out on any functionality since the content on these devices has no content protection requirement.
 

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Further clarification:

HDCP is a Digital Rights Management technology where the two devices (one sending the signal such as a DVD player and the one receiving the signal such as the TV) tell each other they are HDCP compliant, and may now send the full HD signal. This is to avoid sending a full HD signal to a recording device with which you can theoretically distribute the protected content without license.


Really just another way for the big companies to limit the potential for piracy.


HDMI is a display interface format: combining physical (the cable) and non-physical (the signal itself) specifications. HDMI is the next level of technology for sending video and audio signals from one device to another.
 

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Well said.


One final point of clarification: HDCP does not limit content from being distributed around a house and going to multiple displays. In fact, it has provisions for the signal to be repeated to up to 128 downstream devices, so theoretically, one signal could be fanned out to 128 displays.
 

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I have a Digital Receiver with an HDMI/HDCP port (Samsung DTB-H260F) that is connected via HDMI to a 720p projector with an HDMI/HDCP port (Optoma HD70). The Digital Receiver is connected to an antenna for over-the-air reception of digital transmissions. It is not connected to satellite or cable.


?- Does all of the content between the receiver & projector become HDCP protected automatically?

?- If only some content is HDCP protected, which content? How can one distinguish protected content from non-protected content?

?- Do TV stations/networks (like PBS) disclose which content is HDCP protected?


I also have a standard-definition, upconverting DVD player with an HDMI/HDCP port (Oppo 970HD) that I have unsuccessfully tried to connect to the projector via HDMI. (When connected via HDMI, I am able to see a few seconds of DVD content, and then it turns to snow) I assume that HDCP is preventing me from viewing the DVD content via HDMI (even though they are standard def DVD's? which is a bit confusing to me as I thought HDCP applied to High-Def content).


?- Does all of the HDMI-content between the DVD player and projector become HDCP protected automatically?

?- If only some content is HDCP protected, which content? How can one distinguish protected content from non-protected content?

?- Are all DVD's protected by HDCP? If not, which are & which are not? How can one distinguish protected DVD's from non-protected DVD's?



(Rant) - I really wish I had no need to ask about, or understand HDCP. Unfortunately though, it doesn't work. At least not for me. Not with the products I have selected. So now I need to understand enough to avoid HDCP content (if even possible to do so). Or not use the capabilities of my products.
 

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HDCP is something that comes with the media you receive, either through the air, or on a disc. For HDCP protected material to play in full resolution, all links in the chain need to be HDCP compliant (player/decoder, receiver, repeater, TV).


If you have non-HDCP-protected material, there is no need to "add" HDCP protection to it -- it's already in the clear, and will play even if the HDMI equipment is not HDCP protected.


You can treat HDCP as yet another codec -- just like you might ask whether your portable music player supports WMA, AAC or MP3, you can ask whether your video component supports HDMI.
 

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Content: in general, HD movies are protected content that require content protection to be viewed. Sitcoms and TV shows generally do not require content protection (at least not today). Personal content such as a home video definitely does not require content protection. Today, it varies according to the satellite or cable company whether they will limit viewing of protected content that is being transmitted over an unprotected interface (such as regular DVI or component). As far as I know, none of the terrestrial broadcasts in the US today require content protection to be viewed in high def.


All standard definition, upscaling DVD players are required to used HDCP for upscaled, protected content. This is why you can not watch an upscaled movie on a projector with a (non-HDCP) DVI connector.


HDMI does not require HDCP to be used, but it is a market requirement which tends to keep the products honest. From what we have seen on the market, all the HDMI devices which can view or transmit protected content have support for HDCP. The only exception we have seen are devices which will only access personal content, such as camcorders and digital still cameras.
 

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Quote:
HDCP is a Digital Rights Management technology

No, it is a Digital Restrictions Management technology. If it were a Rights management technology, it would have special provisions for the Fair Use rights granted for a long time by the courts for various reasons (research, libraries, personal use, etc); HDCP currently restrict the content more than the law does or requires.


Note that I'm not making a value judgement whether this is a good thing or not (as any source is free to not use it), but I want the terminology to be right.
 
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Whatever you want to call HDCP, it is just an encryption mechanism used between two endpoints. Content providers won't provide content if something like it doesn't exist. You don't like that, don't buy the content, maybe they'll get the message. However, they'd get a stronger message if people stopped stealing the content. Although, I don't know who steals content capturing data on the output of a "box".



larry
 

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Quote:
Content providers won't provide content if something like it doesn't exist.

Actually, that's not true. SOME content providers CLAIM that they would not provide content if it didn't exist.


Also, evidence shows that the stealing, by and large, does not happen at the box-to-TV level. These days, I believe it mostly happens in the mastering or distribution chain. A small amount of large-scale stealing also happens through camcorders in theaters, but obviously those don't aim towards the discerning HD customer :)


And, so far, I'm doing fine with a media where ripping to a family media server works fine, i e, DVDs. I'm not sure I will buy any HD media until I can do the same for that. I might rent before then, though, which is a different thing. Heck, I might even lobby my library to buy some HD content -- how's that for "stealing" :)
 
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