AVS Forum banner

61 - 80 of 105 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Discussion Starter #61
I'm not seeing this thread now in the Cables section?
I can only access it from a previously stored bookmark?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,837 Posts
We would like a make/model number for reference and understanding of your observations.
No one suggested you work for Belkin.
You purchased from AmazonUK… the link should be available.
Your thread was moved to the appropriate forum by the moderators based on the topic.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,367 Posts
The box says ultra high speed HDMI cable, compatible with Dolby Vision.
On the back it states supports 4k @ 120 Hz or 8k @ 60 Hz.
Purchased from Amazon in the UK.

I have no association with Belkin.
Happened to purchase it as I wanted a reasonably priced premium cable for comparison purposes.
In fact I returned the 1st one, thinking it wasn't necessary.

Ultra High Speed HDMI cables will be the new designation for cables that support HDMI 2.1 hardware at the full 48Gbps bandwidth. It's meant to distinguish it from Premium High Speed HDMI cables which support the HDMI 2.0b hardware at the full 18Gbps bandwidth. There is NO difference in AQ/PQ other than what those HDMI hardware specifications support. However, until the certification/testing protocols have been ratified and approved by HDMI.org, calling a cable "Ultra" is a bit premature especially if there is no way to validate that it does in fact meet the HDMI 2.1 hardware specification.


Given that there are no consumer devices that support HDMI 2.1 hardware specifications (other than maybe some that can be flashed to eARC), the Belkin cable will perform the same as a Premium cable because the AQ/PQ is determined, in part, by the HDMI chipset versions at source and sink. The cable is just the data pipe .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Discussion Starter #64 (Edited)
We would like a make/model number for reference and understanding of your observations.
No one suggested you work for Belkin.
You purchased from AmazonUK… the link should be available.
Your thread was moved to the appropriate forum by the moderators based on the topic.
I can't post links from the tablet but here's the full name of the cable :-
Belkin AV10175BT2M ultra high speed HDMI cable, with the 2M indicating 2 metres.
Doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.

Just finished watching Baby Driver in 4K with Atmos.
The new cable is now every bit as good as the original cable I had.
Soundtrack has loads of music tracks, lots of different genres and every nuance of each song was available.
Dialogue crystal clear as well.
Huge difference in the audio between the cheap premium cable and the Belkin, worth every penny.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
I have a very cheap cable from amazon for about £2.50 and have also had dearer ones for around £25 and haven't noticed any difference
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,367 Posts
I have a very cheap cable from amazon for about £2.50 and have also had dearer ones for around £25 and haven't noticed any difference

Yep. There isn't any difference. No technical reason why. But if one thinks there is, that's all that matters.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Discussion Starter #67
OK, the cheap hdmi cable I tried for audio was premium certified and I'm sure passed the full 18 gbps of data.
However the audio quality between it and the Belkin was night and day difference.
On the cheaper cable audio was dull and un-involving, with the Belkin treble was beautifully extended.
People on this forum tell me there is 'NO' difference between audio and video quality between cables.
I have done the test myself and find otherwise.
I'm sure there are other good hdmi cables out there that will give a similer audio performance to the Belkin but I'm happy that the Belkin gives me as good a performance as I can get with my equipment.

On to the video side now.
I have a fiber hdmi cable ordered and should have it within the next week.
I started the thread calling it better picture quality.
Otto pointed out that a cable cannot give better reds etc and I agree with that.
But there is the possibility that cables can degrade a signal and the cable that degrades it least can give a more accurate (better) image than a cable that degrades it more.
As I stated at the start of the thread I have a 15 metre cable run from my 4k blu ray player to my projector and it has given me no issues, always a clean image, no drop outs, sparklies etc.
Ive had it a couple of years so I presume it's a copper cable.
It's marketed as full 18 gbps.
Now I only use blu ray and 4k blu ray so I know I only need 10.3 or is it 13. something gbps, basically I don't game.
I'll compare the image quality of the fiber cable against my existing one when I receive the fiber cable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,837 Posts
It's wonderful that you perceive a "night and day" difference with the audio using a Belkin HDMI cable, especially after reversing ends. With a longer break-in period, it can only get better.


As for video:
There could only be three potential outcomes/observations:
1) no difference
2) you perceive an improvement in picture quality
3) you perceive a degradation in picture quality


IMO and IME, #1 should technically be the only outcome. But I'm sure your opinion will differ. :)
Let us know how things work out for you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,367 Posts
OK, the cheap hdmi cable I tried for audio was premium certified and I'm sure passed the full 18 gbps of data.
However the audio quality between it and the Belkin was night and day difference.
On the cheaper cable audio was dull and un-involving, with the Belkin treble was beautifully extended.
People on this forum tell me there is 'NO' difference between audio and video quality between cables.
I have done the test myself and find otherwise.
I'm sure there are other good hdmi cables out there that will give a similer audio performance to the Belkin but I'm happy that the Belkin gives me as good a performance as I can get with my equipment.

On to the video side now.
I have a fiber hdmi cable ordered and should have it within the next week.
I started the thread calling it better picture quality.
Otto pointed out that a cable cannot give better reds etc and I agree with that.
But there is the possibility that cables can degrade a signal and the cable that degrades it least can give a more accurate (better) image than a cable that degrades it more.
As I stated at the start of the thread I have a 15 metre cable run from my 4k blu ray player to my projector and it has given me no issues, always a clean image, no drop outs, sparklies etc.
Ive had it a couple of years so I presume it's a copper cable.
It's marketed as full 18 gbps.
Now I only use blu ray and 4k blu ray so I know I only need 10.3 or is it 13. something gbps, basically I don't game.
I'll compare the image quality of the fiber cable against my existing one when I receive the fiber cable.

How do you know the cable actually passed 18Gbps? Just because it's marketed as 18Gbps doesn't mean it will actually pass that bandwidth successfully in your system. The easiest way is to run some 4k HDR material. Otherwise, you'll need test equipment do really know if that cable can pass that bandwidth. Of course your source and sink devices play a big part as well.


The "night and day" audio difference is purely subjective. If you think it's better, so be it.


10.2Gbps will pass 1080p (blu-ray) and 4k with no issues, in most cases. 4k HDR requires the higher bandwidth ceiling.


"But there is the possibility that cables can degrade a signal and the cable that degrades it least can give a more accurate (better) image than a cable that degrades it more." No. Any signal degradation will result in sparkles or dropouts. This is especially true for 4k HDR which is very finicky with its cable connections. The "quality" of the image is pretty much dictated by the HDMI chipsets. If there are any issues with the signal, error correction, timing, etc will be affected resulting in poor image fidelity.


A 50' cable run is difficult for any cable. Just find a cable that will work reliably in your system and don't worry about image fidelity. If you get a trouble-free picture, that's the best you can do. If you plan on moving up to 4k HDR someday, then install a hybrid fiber cable because that appears to work best for most folks because distance is the achilles heel of 4k HDR. At 50', as long as you've installed a conduit (along with a pull string) for your cable run you can easily upgrade your cabling as the connection technology improves and slowly catches up to the video technology.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,949 Posts
'Huge difference in the audio between the cheap premium cable and the Belkin, worth every penny.' - just to be clear on this :)

HDMI carries the audio data within the video signal (there are no audio only cores in an HDMI cable) and the Source device outputs a highly encrypted (scrambled) signal to the Sink device (your AVR) which then unscrambles the signal (assuming it can handshake with the Source), finds the audio and then either amplify or decode plus amplify the signal and somewhere along that signal path your HDMI cable gets involved with just the 'sweet highs' of the audio signal!

Are you confirming your Source device is outputting the same signal format every time you swap cables and that your AVR is applying the same processing every time you swap cables?

What is the format of the signal the Source device is set to Output?

Joe

PS Worth noting it is not a great idea to be 'Hot Swapping' HDMI cables - you risk frying the HDMI Transmitter and Receiver chips in your devices.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Discussion Starter #71
Joe …… thanks for your input, I was unaware about the audio within hdmi.

The new 4k blu ray player I'm using is a Panasonic 9000 and my eye was caught in the manual that if you split the video and audio feeds via separate hdmi cables then you will get high res audio output, so that is what I did. it also means the video is going straight to the display and not through the AVR.
I had two of the cheap premium certified cables and compared the sound between them and they were identical, so no faults with either cable but very little extended treble coming through causing the soundtracks to sound flat.
With the Belkin cable, of which I've had two, (sent original back as didn't think I needed it), treble is beautifully extended, music tracks in movies sound like they are being played on a good hi fi and dialogue is crystal clear.

My Sony projector is 2-3 years old so the chipset is only 10.2 gbps, good enough for 4K Blu-ray, (I don't game).
I was sort of aware of damaging the chipsets by "hot swopping" so when changing the cables I switched the PJ to hdmi 1, (not the 4K input being used which is hdmi 2) and switched the Blu-ray player off.

Should be able to post within the next day of my experience with the fiber cable for the video side of things.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,367 Posts
This thread is getting tedious. If you believe that the Belkin cable (and there is some thought that while it may be a Belkin cable, the packaging is not) produces better audio then that's all that matters, to you. My guess is that you will also convince yourself that the hybrid fiber cable produces better video. Again, if that's what you perceive then that's all that matters.


My cable runs are under 10' and I use Premium High Speed HDMI cables from BJC. PQ is to die for on my OLED and audio is fantastic given the source. Crystal highs, deep clean bass, and dialog that is clear and easy to understand. And it's all as I would expect.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Discussion Starter #73 (Edited)
I'm sure your picture and sound are great using BJC cables, I can't comment on that as I've no experience of them. I can only talk about my own experience. Additionally you are a TV user and I'm a projector user so our experiences are different.

If you remember what this thread is about it is that the picture (and I presume audio) is the same between cables.
Well, the general consensus of the participants in this thread is that they are the same …. and it may be in a perfect world.
I have discovered it's not, audio firstly, …… now, on to the video.

Received and tested out my new fibre optic hdmi cable.
I ran it with the test sequences I have been using for audio - Baby Driver, 4K and for Blu-ray Sing St (and Sicario).

Baby Driver appeared brighter in the opening sequence.
When I checked out Sicario, the Lionsgate opening sequence looker brighter, blacks looked better and whites looked better, giving more contrast.
The image in the interview sequence looked bright, but spot on with very crisp detail, natural colours and a very 'calm' image.

Subsequently, I've watched BlackkKlansman for the first time, some indoor scenes appeared murky but outdoor scenes like the 'David Duke cavalcade' looked superb, again bright with a very sharp image.

Watched Sing St, which I've watched a lot during this testing, and again the image looked brighter than before.

Overall I've found the image to be better - but not by a huge amount.
So far I've spent $300 to improve both my picture and sound, not a huge amount, but a significant improvement for the minimal outlay.

I'm keeping the new fiber cable and moving my previous 4K hdmi cable to hdmi 1, (a non 4k socket).
When I upgrade to my next projector both hdmi sockets will be 4k, 18 gbps, so both cables will be used.
My redundant cable will be sold on ebay to help recoup the price of the new fiber cable.

Upshot of my quest is that TO ME I've proved that hdmi cables are not the same quality and you need to experiment to prove what works best for your system.

Everyone will be happy to tell you that all hdmi cables give the same output (video and audio) and if you want to believe that then you may be loosing out on getting the best out of your system.

PS ….. I've contacted the fiber hdmi company to see if they are happy for me to release their name so until I receive their authorisation I'll keep the product to myself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,367 Posts
Everyone will be happy to tell you that all hdmi cables give the same output (video and audio) and if you want to believe that then you may be loosing out on getting the best out of your system.

PS ….. I've contacted the fiber hdmi company to see if they are happy for me to release their name so until I receive their authorisation I'll keep the product to myself.

Whatever. If you think that whichever cable your purchase, at whatever price, gives you better pq/aq then that's fine. It's your system, not ours. I have tested my system and I get the best I can get given the source.


BTW, "lossing" is spelled "losing".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Discussion Starter #76
Read the 2 articles listed, (one embedded within the listed one), interesting in that he did seem to find differences in some of the cables with regard to audio, due to jitter.
I'm sure the majority of cables work and sound the same but in my own testing with my own system I found differences that I could identify with both the audio and video of the cables I was checking out.
I'm sure other people will test other cables and find no difference.
Main thing I'm saying is it's better if you can test the cables you prefer against other cables for comparisons sake even if just to give you piece of mind.

I started this thread wondering if there was any differences in hdmi cables and I am happy that I now have two (different) hdmi cables that allow my home cinema system to work to the best of its capabilities.

Once I hear from the fiber company, (I'm sure closed for the weekend), I'll either name the fiber cable or not, depending on what they say.

I'm happy to put this thread to bed as I've answered my own questions.
Happy for others to disagree with me but I've tested the cables in my own system and happy to live with my findings.

Best regards to all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,837 Posts
Once I hear from the fiber company, (I'm sure closed for the weekend), I'll either name the fiber cable or not, depending on what they say..
I'm sure they would have no problem whatsoever if you posted a "positive" review and recommendation for their product. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Discussion Starter #78
Agreed, but I'll wait and see.
My review of their cable is in post 73.

I never named the 'cheap' premium certified cable that gave me the inferior sound, don't want to denigrate any company.
Interesting enough I noticed an email from them in my Inbox asking for a review. I'll point them to this thread and see if they come back to me regarding the audio of their cable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
766 Posts
I didn’t see in the first dozen or so posts that the OP was mixing active and passive cables in his/her comparison. Active cables absolutely do modify the signal and, as a result, I would expect there to be differences in AQ/PQ between active and passive, between active of different manufacturers, and between active of the same manufacturer across different revisions and product lines.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Discussion Starter #80
I guess I should have mentioned my original 15 metre hdmi cable was an active cable, QED Active Performance cable.
I see from their website they have a new upgrade to the cable but mine is a couple of years old.
Pretty sure from memory the cable was quoted as being able to pass 18 gbps?

Absolutely no problem with the cable, never had any dropouts or sparklies and gives a very acceptable image.

I always wondered whether by changing the cable if I could improve the image?

As mentioned before the highest data throughput I need is 10.2 gbps for UHD movies as I'm not a gamer.
As far as I'm aware this should allow for HDR as HDR is part of the UHD specification?
 
61 - 80 of 105 Posts
Top