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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does anyone know if it is allowed (i.e. possible + legal) to have a video processor accept a HDCP-encrypted HDMI input, process it, and output a DTCP-encrypted (5C) signal via Firewire?


Is this something that can be engineered and implemented w/o violating the "rules" required to license HDMI/HDCP?


-John
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
What I'm really wanting to find out is if it would be possible for someone to build a video processor with multiple encrypted HDMI/HDCP inputs that could output via IEEE1394/5C to a compatible display without running afoul of the various licensing restrictions for these technologies.


( A question and a not-so-subtle suggestion to the good folks at ABT/DVDO for their next-next gen product (VP40?) perhaps?!? Dale? )


-John
 

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John, as was already posted, regardless of licensing issues, you're asking for an MPEG2 encoder and some associated equipment: to take the uncompressed HDMI feed (> 1.5Gbps) and encode it (realtime) into MPEG2 (say

I would seriously doubt than anyone is going to build such a box for the consumer market--it's simply too expensive to pull off given the presumed tiny audience.


In the "roll your own" world, to do what you want, for example, you'd be taking HDMI to DVI, then DVI to HD-SDI, then encoding the HD-SDI feed into MPEG2 in realtime, then taking the resulting DVB/ASI output to IEEE1394. Basically, a Frankenstein solution, and an expensive one at that (a Doremi ORCA 420 MPEG2 HD encoder box runs about $21,000 IIRC, and it's considered "affordable"). Companies such as AJA, Doremi, KTech, etc. make the converter boxes needed on each end of the encoder box--and they too are expensive (e.g., a Doremi XDVI-20 DVI to HD-SDI box runs about $4,000). Heck, I'm not even sure that there *is* a box that can take DVB/ASI to Firewire (that final step...I *think* KTech makes one)...most of these solutions are for capture/editing, not realtime throughput.


In the capture vein, there are also PC-based PCI card solutions for the encoding step (e.g., Optibase MovieMaker HD, which clocks in around $19,000 IIRC), but I don't think they would work as part of a realtime encoding to IEEE1394 turnkey solution. The prices are dropping (they are probably below what I have posted, I haven't checked in a long time), but they aren't dropping to the point where these kinds of solutions become affordable in the world of CE A/V...they are targeted at pros. I'm sure someone in the "pro" world can fill in the blanks, but rest assured, it won't be cheap.


Of course, all of this is moot for your desire: the above converter boxes won't work with an HDCP encoded feed--they can only handle plain vanilla DVI (or plain vanilla DVI extracted from non-HDCP HDMI). So, no, even though--in theory--the HDCP license supports the solution you desire, the HDCP robustness rules rule out any Frankensteinesque solution, leaving you to forever wish for something no one will likely ever build (a single box, very secure solution).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by amillians
Heck, I'm not even sure that there *is* a box that can take DVB/ASI to Firewire (that final step...I *think* KTech makes one)...
Actually, there is a relatively inexpensive way to do real time DVB-ASI to Firewire. Use an ASI to QAM modulator to 'broadcast' your transport stream to an LG LST-3410A PVR, then tune the LG to the channel and record via its Firewire output. I'm currently using a Barco Quasar MkII QAM modulator to get homebrew transport streams into this PVR. They show up occasionally for $250 on eBay.


There are a few non-realtime methods to get data over Firewire. Probably the best consumer-friendly method is to use the VirtualDVHS software on a Macintosh. Another way is to get a Sencore HDTV996 VSB player, then tune your Firewire equipped ATSC tuner to channel 13 or 14. This works well with the Samsung SIRT165 tuner as well as the LG box. All of this assumes you don't have to operate Firewire in 5C protocol.

Quote:
Of course, all of this is moot for your desire: the above converter boxes won't work with an HDCP encoded feed--they can only handle plain vanilla DVI (or plain vanilla DVI extracted from non-HDCP HDMI).
There are a few solutions out there which will circumvent HDCP. A search on this forum will turn up the answers. It's possible (although not likely) that the HDCP licensors will disable the offending boxes, but more boxes will turn up to replace the disabled boxes. On this front, the cat and mouse game will never end.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Interesting that you should mention VirtualDVHS for the Mac -- I've been playing around with that for a few days now with a Motorola 6412, and it actually works once you figure out the right order (first VDVHS, then AVCconnect, etc.)


The problem is that any little glitch in the already-recorded transport stream that's captured to the output (m2t) file seems to confuse the heck out of Quicktime and anything that relies on it (iMovie, etc.) so I end up having to re-encode and export the full-res movie as QT via MPEGStreamclip, then import into something that'll let me burn a DVD.


But that's getting off-topic, isn't it?


-John
 

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dahester,


Thanks for the heads up your the DVB/ASI -> Firewire real-time solution....much cheaper than the KTech one I was thinking about!


Yep, I'm aware of the HDCP stripping boxes--I thought, based on the original post, though, that we were playing by the rules. :)


If you have any more info on components in a Frankenstein solution (especially ones that don't cost an arm and a leg), please post away...people ask about this type of functionality enough that it would probably be helpful to create a definitive thread (the stuff I posted was top of my head, very much pro focused...I'm sure there are cheaper ways to do things).
 
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