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 http://www.hdmi.org/pdf/HDMI_CPTWG_4-17-02.PDF
http://www.hdmi.org/faq/faq.asp

http://www.hdmi.org/press/release_120902.asp


HDMI FOUNDERS HITACHI, MATSUSHITA (PANASONIC), PHILIPS, SILICON IMAGE, SONY, THOMSON AND TOSHIBA RELEASE FINAL HDMI 1.0 SPECIFICATION AMID BROAD INDUSTRY SUPPORT


High-Definition Multimedia Interface Provides Access to Higher-Quality Digital Content


SUNNYVALE, Calif., December 9, 2002 - High-Definition Multimedia Interfaceâ„¢ (HDMIâ„¢) Founders Hitachi, Matsushita Electric (Panasonic), Royal Philips Electronics, Silicon Image, Sony Corporation, Thomson, and Toshiba Corporation today released the final 1.0 specification for HDMI, the next-generation digital interface for consumer electronics. HDMI enables the secure distribution of uncompressed high-definition video and multi-channel audio in a single cable, providing consumers with a broader array of high-quality digital content while dramatically simplifying ease of use.


With the availability of the HDMI v 1.0 Specification, manufacturers can now develop and bring to market HDMI-compliant products to usher in a new era of previously unreleased, premium high-definition content. The HDMI initiative enjoys broad industry support from major motion picture producers Fox and Universal, satellite companies DIRECTV and EchoStar, cable companies, and consumer electronics manufacturers. Because digital television (DTV) signals remain in digital format, HDMI assures that pristine high-definition images retain the highest video quality from the source all the way to the display.


HDMI combines high-definition video and multi-channel audio in a single digital interface with a bandwidth of up to 5 Gigabits/second. Benefits include uncompressed digital quality, fewer cables and a small, user-friendly connector suitable for a wide range of CE components. In addition, HDMI capitalizes on the interoperability standards created by the CEA and supports many of the capabilities of the AV.link interoperability protocol popular in Europe, such as control of multiple source devices through a single remote pointed at the DTV. HDMI with High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP) technology solves the issue of protecting high-value content from unauthorized reproduction and distribution.


"As digital media forms a bigger piece of the consumer entertainment experience, many users are overwhelmed by the complexity of interconnecting all the pieces," explained Steve Kleynhans, vice president, META Group. "HDMI, as an industry standard, will provide some measure of relief while providing the quality users have come to demand, encouraging the adoption of new types of digital entertainment."


A growing number of DTVs and set-top boxes on the market today already feature Digital Visual Interface (DVI) connections. HDMI builds upon the capabilities of DVI, adding a number of attractive new features designed specifically for consumer electronics applications while maintaining full backward compatibility.


Parties interested in designing HDMI-based products may access the HDMI 1.0 Specification at www.hdmi.org


About the HDMI Founders

Comprised of Hitachi, Matsushita Electric (Panasonic), Royal Philips Electronics, Silicon Image, Sony Corporation, Thomson and Toshiba Corporation, the High-Definition Multimedia Interface (HDMI) Founders have joined together to define a next-generation digital interface specification for consumer electronics products. HDMI is also supported by major motion picture producers, as well as satellite and cable companies. For more information about the HDMI specification and the HDMI Founders, visit www.hdmi.org
 

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"U.S. Continues hunt for Al Qaeda" would be about as newsworthy as this press release.


Thanks, SoPa, for posting it. My beef is with the non-news, not the highlighting of it here.
 

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Here we go again. Part two, if you use HDMI(DVI) we will give you more content, bulls**t!

If you guys fall for it, you will cause everyone one of us to loose our fair use rights!
 

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Are these guys setting themselves up for the biggest consumer class action lawsuit ever?


The moment the content owners attempt to close off HD analog connections, the class action lawyers will work out the size of the plaintiff class (which is most HD set owners today who don't have HDCP) and start filing cases...
 

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I am not the least but convinced that this lawsuit is going to be so big because most people won't actually care. Sure, there will be a lawsuit if shutting off occurs. It doesn't appear there will be too much shutting off too soon and most of it will be on PPV -- if anywhere.


That said, given that the signatories to the above press release represent virtually everyone who is anyone in making big televisions (save lone-wolf Mitsubishi), Bruce's signature looks more ludicrous than ever.
 

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I think there will be enough people amongst the 2 million HD set owners to easily put together a couple of class action lawsuits.


The vendors are only getting themselves in more hot water when they make false statements like this one above:


HDMI builds upon the capabilities of DVI, adding a number of attractive new features designed specifically for consumer electronics applications while maintaining full backward compatibility.
 

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What is false about that statement? If you are talking about analog, of course it is incorrect. But I think they just mean backwards compatibility with DVI . . .
 

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Analog8: I think there will be class-action lawsuits, I just don't think they are going to be record in size. There are at least 4 million HDTV owners, but only about 15% (or fewer) have HD boxes. The rest might never get a box before the down-rezzing starts and will never know what they are missing.


All I mean is that there will be suits, just not among the "biggest ever."


And I agree with Matt. Their statement is not false. It clearly refers to DVI itself.
 

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rogo after all of this time you still don't get it. HDMI another form of DVI is design for only one thing, that is to limit your fair use rights. This whole subject has been discussed many times on this forum.


I will not ever buy anything that contains ether a HDMI input or output.
 

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Bruce, it is completely and totally you who don't get it. The technology does not control your fair use rights, the content-owners and the law do.


There are going to be HD PVRs in 2003 that don't require Firewire, 5C or HAVi to let you record. They require an output, like component or DVI (with or without HDCP) that TVs actually have. You only need Firewire for a standalone recorder. Standalone recorders are increasingly archaic irrespective of HDTV.


I know some people here like to archive and while I'm not at all sure you have such a fair-use right, I do agree that ability is going to be limited. But timeshifting is the fair-use right established by Betamax and therefore remains the law of the land at this time.


Hollywood et al. can infringe your rights every bit as easily with Firewire. Why this escapes you honestly escapes me.


Oh, and finally, you have all but certainly bought your last television and there is a chance you'll never be able to buy an HD-DVD player or HD PVR.


So enjoy your duck-billed hadrosaur, er... Mitsubishi. And enjoy you Promise Module (3 weeks and counting....)
 

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I disagree. The FAQ on the HDMI.org site is full of this 'backward compatibility' stuff which is incorrect. e.g.


Is HDMI backward-compatible with DVI (Digital Visual Interface)?

Yes, HDMI is fully backward-compatible with DVI using the CEA-861 profile for DTVs. HDMI DTVs will display video received from existing DVI-equipped products, and DVI-equipped TVs will display video from HDMI sources.


Will current HD TVs and set-top boxes using DVI-HDTV be compatible with HDMI devices?

Yes. Currently there are TVs with DVI-HDTV inputs available from a variety of manufacturers. Those devices will be compatible with future HDMI-equipped products



This FAQ implies that my DVI plasma will work with an HDMI STB. Of course, it will only work until they switch on HDCP for PPV. That isn't 'full backward compatibility'. HDCP is part of HDMI, and HDCP is not backward compatible with vanilla DVI.
 

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Quote:
Standalone recorders are increasingly archaic irrespective of HDTV.
Come on now Mark, that is just YOUR opinion. Did you forget to insert the "IMO"???:rolleyes: Why don't you post a thread about what you said over in the recording forum if you feel so strongly about that????

Quote:
Hollywood et al. can infringe your rights every bit as easily with Firewire. Why this escapes you honestly escapes me.
The point is that with DVI there is no looking back if implemented as "the standard". At least with 1394, you have different options.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by analog8
The FAQ on the HDMI.org site is full of this 'backward compatibility' stuff which is incorrect. This FAQ implies that my DVI plasma will work with an HDMI STB. Of course, it will only work until they switch on HDCP for PPV. That isn't 'full backward compatibility'. HDCP is part of HDMI, and HDCP is not backward compatible with vanilla DVI.
Well, yes and no.

Is HDMI backward-compatible with DVI (Digital Visual Interface)?


Yes, HDMI is fully backward-compatible with DVI using the CEA-861 profile for DTVs. HDMI DTVs will display video received from existing DVI-equipped products, and DVI-equipped TVs will display video from HDMI sources.



Unless I'm going crazy, neither EIA/CEA-861, EIA/CEA-861-A nor EIA/CEA-861-B say anything about HDCP, so your point is well taken. Heck, the EIA/CEA-861 standard was published before Intel released the original HDCP spec. The 861 standard simply explains how DVI should be used to handle DTV-specific timing, data transfer, etc. As the HDMI org has worded this part of the FAQ, backwards compatibility with normal DVI is only guaranteed for non-HDCP flagged material, hardly what I would call "fully backwards-compatible." I think HDMI screwed up here--all they had to do was say something like "using the DVI-HDTV profile for DTVs" to cover their butts. Attack! :)

Will current HD TVs and set-top boxes using DVI-HDTV be compatible with HDMI devices?


Yes. Currently there are TVs with DVI-HDTV inputs available from a variety of manufacturers. Those devices will be compatible with future HDMI-equipped products.



DVI-HDTV is defined by the CEA as DVI + EIA/CEA 861 + HDCP, so this statement holds true. When we here on this forum say DVI/HDCP, we should technically be saying DVI-HDTV. They fully covered their butts on this one.
 

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Analog and Alex: I just don't think there is anything wrong with the stuff you guys are quoting. They should've explained your existing TV needs to be DVI-HDTV (aka DVI/HDCP) to be compatible, but otherwise I think the stuff is true.


Kipp: True, it's my opinion. I just don't believe that tape-based recording has any future really and it appears removable disks are just too darned small to be useful for that either. I also believe personal archiving on removable media of copyrighted content is going to get harder (at least for movies and such). But the point is, you can still look back. You could have a recorder with a built-in tuner/set-top that supports tapes and has a DVI out to the TV. Yes, it means that a dumb standalone recorder that caddies for a set-top box can't exist (unless the set-top box also has 1394 and the recorder does too), I just believe that dumb recorders are not going to be too popular... They are a nightmare with satellite already and are no good with digital cable...


You will need an integrated recorder -- tape or not -- to have seamless timeshifting that just works. Certainly, we may see set-tops that support an "external recorder" option that isn't a PVR but is a tape-based device. I don't believe those will be popular in the HD era, but they might exist. In that case, your set-top could have 1394 and DVI (one to the recorder, one to the display) and your recorder could have both too (one to the set-top, one to the display (or back to the set-top for a daisy-chain or whatever). The recorder, in fact, could have just the 1394 in that scenario and output back through the set-top.


The point is the technology to allow recording doesn't require 1394, it requires integrated boxes *or* 1394 *or* some other solution that is not out yet. And although I agree there is a potential assault on fair use and that there are some in Hollywood who still dream of an all-PPV world, those issues are not about technology.


Mark
 

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Rogo - any corporate counsel worth their paycheck would have a minor seizure if they realized the inherent ambiguity in this:

HDMI is fully backward-compatible with DVI using the CEA-861 profile for DTVs. HDMI DTVs will display video received from existing DVI-equipped products, and DVI-equipped TVs will display video from HDMI sources


As I said before, my DVI equipped TV is not fully backward compatible with HDMI sources, for obvious reasons.


As someone who has spent far too much time with lawyers, I can't believe the HDMI folks allow there to be any confusion at all in this FAQ and their PR. Both their marketing and legal folks should be taken out back and shot, as they are opening themselves to huge liability issues by not being 110% crystal clear in these statements. I think I am pretty safe in predicting this bug will come back to bite the HDMI group hard. It's hard enough being an industry group like this without violating anti-trust laws, let alone being an industry group who promulgates a new standard as 'fully backward compatible' when it isn't.


Earlier this week I contacted a well known class action law firm in CA that I have dealt with previously and gave them an overview of this whole HDCP mess. I will be interested to see their response. I imagine they could assemble a class very quickly at forums like this. Once DirectTV (or anyone else for that matter) mandate DVI for any HD and attempt to close off analog HD, the class action land sharks will be all over it. Some people have suggested we could see this in 2003, so I imagine there would be a number of lawyers looking at it already (since they have the most to gain).


In a way, I feel sorry for those folks who waited for DVI-HDCP sets because the ensuing legal tangle is sure to delay rollout of DVI-HDCP dependent technologies such as the blue laser HD-DVD and the like for several years. Not to mention that DirectTV getting slapped with a suit might make others less enthusiastic about rollout of HDCP equipped STB's.


I guess we only have the MPAA to blame in the end. Last time I checked, the FCC didn't mandate an HD standard just to let the MPAA come along four years later and effectively change the standard by forcing HDCP requirements to view certain HD content.


In a saner world, you could expect Congress or the FCC to take some action, but recent experience has shown that they are both firmly in the pocket of the industry.
 

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Are they really in the pocket of the industry, or is it more likely that a handful truely are in the pocket of the industry (Senator Disney for example), but I believe that most of congress simply doesn't really understand what's at play here, and that they only get the industry's side of the picture because it's not like avsforum can send members to speak in front of congress. I believe that this type of law making can only go on for so long, however. What we have here is a case of law makers making laws that benefit 1% of the population and hurt 99% of the population. This is only possible because people simply don't know it is happening. Would you want your reprisentatives litigating away your rights for no reason? Well nobody else does either, it's just that they don't know that it's happening. When enough people begin to see what is going on, then the government will have to swing back to the side of the voters or risk being voted out. I also have higher hopes for the courts, since they tend to have a slightly higher degree of accountability to the constitution and case law than the lawmakers themselves.


-Q
 

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Look, I really don't care who sues who -- unless you are successful in getting reasonable fair-use rights protected. In that case, I'm with you all the way.


Regardless, this plays out in the marketplace more than the courts. And the Mr. Embry's of the world boycotting DVI-equipped equipment are few and far between... more so everyday.
 

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Congress and the FCC never mandated high-definition, just "digital" TV. Even down-rezzed HD (same quality as Fox Widescreen 480p) is perfectly acceptable under the law. You have no legal right to HDTV!


Now, if manufacturers and retailers falsely promised HDTV capabilities in their equipment without properly disclosing that future standards might emerge that could render this feature inoperable, that MIGHT constitute fraud. But did you document what your pimply-faced 21-year-old Circuit City salesperson told you before you shelled out the green? And did they INTEND to deceive you or did technology simply take an unforeseen course (as per VHS and Betamax)? Some companies were smart enough to include in the fine print of their advertising and product literature that future standards could emerge so they are probably off the hook (that's why cigarette makers were in favor of the warnings against smoking that began appearing in the 1960s--so they could say "we warned you!").


The most likely solution is for industry trade groups to arrive at consensus solutions that all parties can live with. Witness the agreement reached just before Christmas between CEA and cable TV companies that seems to fully safeguard consumers' fair use rights. Of course, they reached this deal without the participation of Hollywood, but I think Congress will get involved if the content providers don't go along with it.


Can someone point me to the thread where the CEA/CATV agreement is being discussed???
 

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"Down-rezzed HD"


We went throught this with 8 track tapes, audio cassettes, Beta & VHS. This is just my opinion, but I suspect restriction of content resolution (of less than 720p) to the public who purchase equipment for such will be a pain for source providers down the road.


What comes around always goes around. The worse thing they can do is upset every equipment owner because for every direct dissatisfaction there is an equal and opposite reaction in some shape or form unfortunately. We just want to enjoy what we purchase for what it is to be ! It will be interesting no doubt about it. Odd thing is technology will likely always make "what's out now" to become obsolete as it reshapes to new display/transmission formats schemes and delivery mechanisms.


crossing my fingers too :)
 

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'log, you mean your DVI equipped TV isn't forward compatible with HDMI. Saying that HDMI is backward compatible with DVI doesn't automatically mean the reverse is true. It means that a broadcast that would work with a given DVI port will work just as well with HDMI.


If your TV's DVI port doesn't support HDCP, for example, HDMI does not solve that problem. You'd have the same issue if a DVI connector rather than an HDMI connector was used. HDMI behaves the same way, so it's backward compatible.
 
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