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HDnet vs CBS - HD basketball using SD cameras

949 Views 15 Replies 10 Participants Last post by SNB2003, Apr 7, 2003

HDTV888

Discussion Starter · Apr 6, 2003

Thank you CBS for showing so many March NCAA games in HD.

During the saturday final 4, HDnet was showing the repeat of the High School all stars game at about the same time. I noticed how much more professional the HDnet broadcast was, everything was glorious 16x9 HD, for 2 straight hours. It was truly HD the way it should be ...... HD all the way.

On the other hand, CBS was almost amateurish, showing way too many shots from the SD cameras, then cutting back and forth between 4x3 host shots (SD), 4x3 comercials (SD), then true 16x9 HD, then back to the 16x9 SD, and on and on........it was "uncomfortable".

It's disappointing that after so much effort, the broadcast was spoiled by the intrusion of a couple of SD cameras, it can't be that expensive for just 2 more HD cameras ?? If HDnet can afford to go all HD cameras, so can CBS!

In another 2 or 3 years, I hope all CBS sports events will be just like HDnet's.

Looking forward to the CBS Masters with 42 HD cameras.

Thank you CBS, you are still "the" network HD leader, and still improving, keep it up!

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bfdtv

· #2 · Apr 6, 2003

Quote:

It's disappointing that after so much effort, the broadcast was spoiled by the intrusion of a couple of SD cameras, it can't be that expensive for just 2 more HD cameras ?? If HDnet can afford to go all HD cameras, so can CBS!

Hdnet can only afford to do what it does because it is subsidized by Mark Cuban's multi-billion dollar fortune. Viacom/CBS company is a publicly owned company that must answer to shareholders. Viacom is spending more than any other broadcast network on HD, but there is a limit to what they can do and justify in terms of costs. As time passes, the extra cost of HD production and equipment will fall, leading to improved HDTV broadcasts.

Of course, primary concern of Viacom/CBS (and every other broadcast network) is 4:3 SDTV, as that is where they make all their money; they are not going to do anything for the HD feed that could negatively impact the 4:3 SD broadcast. Eventually, of course, when there are many millions of HDTV viewers, and CBS can make money from traditional advertising on the HDTV feed, then you will see far better productions.

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HDTVChallenged

· #3 · Apr 7, 2003

I've noticed that the SD cameras are always used on the floor ... particularly behind the goal posts ... The cynic in me humbly suggests that CBS does not want to risk having an HD camera destroyed in a collision ...

HDC

Andrew_Ballew

· #4 · Apr 7, 2003

Yeah, but when will HDNET ever have the FINAL FOUR??? I am willing to deal with some standard def 4:3 for some shots, especially considering how GLORIOUS CBS Sports HD can be. Growing pains, my friend. Give it time.

Andrew B.

bfdtv

· #5 · Apr 7, 2003

Quote:

Yeah, but when will HDNET ever have the FINAL FOUR???

Probably never. CBS agreed to pay a whopping 6.2 billion dollars for exclusive rights to NCAA basketball through the year 2013.

It remains to be seen whether Hdnet will able to maintain its access to NHL, NBA, and MLB games once its becomes a pay channel ("Hdnet Sports") that is available to more viewers. Looking ahead, I have my doubts whether Hdnet will be able to broadcast games for many of the sports leagues, particularly when Disney, FOX, and CBS have paid billions for exclusive national broadcast rights.

Ken H

· #6 · Apr 7, 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
I've noticed that the SD cameras are always used on the floor ... particularly behind the goal posts ... The cynic in me humbly suggests that CBS does not want to risk having an HD camera destroyed in a collision ...

Wrong.

It's very simple. The SD floor cams are used for super slo mo, and the HDTV version is not up to snuff yet. Remember that this production is unified SD/HD, and in the big picture, HD is the secondary concern.

Andrew_Ballew

· #7 · Apr 7, 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by bfdtv
Probably never. CBS agreed to pay a whopping 6.2 billion dollars for exclusive rights to NCAA basketball through the year 2013.

It remains to be seen whether Hdnet will able to maintain its access to NHL, NBA, and MLB games once its becomes a pay channel ("Hdnet Sports") that is available to more viewers. Looking ahead, I have my doubts whether Hdnet will be able to broadcast games for many of the sports leagues, particularly when Disney, FOX, and CBS have paid billions for exclusive national broadcast rights.

But we will have MLS and professional LaCrosse! No offense to the soccer fans and the one LaCrosse fan, but if it wasn't in HD would anyone actually sit through it? Again, no offense- to each his own- I hear it all the time for being a huge NASCAR fan, which by the way I am very dissapointed that out local FAUX-DT affiliate doesn't pass the widescreen 5.1 signal yet.

Cheers

Andrew B.

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neyugnt

· #8 · Apr 7, 2003

Can someone explain why the previous rounds of NCAA HD coverage were pretty much "ALL HD" (during the game)? What I mean is, the first couple of rounds before the final 4 seemed to have all HD cameras (maybe fewer, but there were no sudden "switch to SD" shots.

Assuming there were no "super slo mo" shots (I know this has been beaten to death in the other thread) in the previous rounds, it just looked so much better. So basically the decision was made (or tradeoff) that it would be worse to have no super slo mo than to have an all HD production. That's fine for CBS to make that decision but then they will have to live with the guys here complaining about what in their eyes looks non professional.

-T

XFactor

· #9 · Apr 7, 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by Andrew_Ballew
But we will have MLS and professional LaCrosse! No offense to the soccer fans and the one LaCrosse fan, but if it wasn't in HD would anyone actually sit through it?

It amuses me that those putting down HDNet neglect to mention their coverage of NHL this season. Or MLB in 2002. Remember this past Fall when HDNet broadcast NCAA football games? This Spring when they broadcast NCAA baseball games? How about AFL games in the Summer of 2002.

You are presenting quite a distorted vision of HDNet when you note only the smallest of the live sports they have covered in recent memory.

Al K

· #10 · Apr 7, 2003

It would be interesting to know what percentage of the time (minutes) of the CBS telecasts was actually HD. The use of SD cameras for floor shots and most if not all replays would put the SD percentage much higher than CBS might like to admit. While I enjoy the HD content, I really must encourage to pick up a couple of handheld HD cameras. The current switching back and forth is really distracting. Isn't JVC coming out with a $3K consumer HD camera? Maybe CBS could spring for a couple of those.

Al Keown

Ken H

· #11 · Apr 7, 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by Al K
While I enjoy the HD content, I really must encourage to pick up a couple of handheld HD cameras.

Al,

It's not an HD camera issue. The video tape replay hardware is the issue.

dswallow

· #12 · Apr 7, 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken H
The video tape replay hardware is the issue.

If CBS is still using video tape for instant replays, then it's seriously past time for CBS to buy some new equipment.

Ken H

· #13 · Apr 7, 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by dswallow
If CBS is still using video tape for instant replays, then it's seriously past time for CBS to buy some new equipment.

Not really. Everybody uses video tape for slo mo & super slo mo replays.

HDTV888

Discussion Starter · #14 · Apr 7, 2003

So I'm drawing the conclusion that CBS, after paying billions of $ for the rights, wants to use the SD cameras for super slo-mo's to please 99% of the audience watching on SD. We, the 1% watching on HD, don't count. Okay, I'll accept that.

I don't think there were that many SD shots during the earlier rounds, can anyone confirm that? It was really uncomfortable watching the constant switching between SD and HD. Just wish they forget about super slo-mo, and just show it the HDnet way.

dswallow

· #15 · Apr 7, 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken H
Not really. Everybody uses video tape for slo mo & super slo mo replays.

Why? This would seem like an ideal application for digitally recorded video. When you rewind and replay a tape, you're not recording. So to not miss anything, you need to be recording somewhere else too. Maybe more than two different places. Digitally, they could do just about anything.

SNB2003

· #16 · Apr 7, 2003

Actually Ken, many of the replays now are done with a machine called an EVS which in essence is a glorified Tivo....So, dswallow, you are playing back and recording at the same time...However, there is still a lot of videotape playback being used...Furthermore, Super Slo Mo is shot at ninety frames a second as opposed to thirty frames a second....HD is shot at 60....So HD Super Slo Mo would need to be basically shot at 180 frames per second...The technology is coming soon.....

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