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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I bought the DST3000 for HDNet only. When I tried to set the system up, there was NO option for a round dish pointed at 119. I already had a round dish pointed at 119 thinking I'd be ready when the unit arrived. I ended up pointing another round dish at 101 and using a 22khz switch. Works fine...even though I had to select "oval dish" in the setup menu. You have to connect the dishes to the switch in a particular arrangement because the system can't do an "auto configure" with this setup. After my first disappointment I found a small note in the manual that said YOU CAN'T WATCH HDTV with a round dish. Now they tell me!


I got the $7.99 DirecTV limited and now have HDNet. Today I'm going to disconnect the 101 dish and see if I can still get 119.


Al Keown
 

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Are you using two dishes with a dual LNB on them going into a multiswitch? Other wise you have to use an elliptical dish (which is the oval dish) to get both sats. If you are using two dishes with dual LNB's going into a 4by4 multiswitch then you have to select oval dish in the setup menu on your DST. Somebody correct me if I am wrong.


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Juan
 

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Respectfully, wrong.


You can watch HD only on 119 with a round single LNB or double LNB. You do need to set it for oval.


You can go with two rounds (single or DLNB) and use a simple 22kHz switch per above. With DLNBs you can use two 22 kHz switches for two different HD receovers. Only when you have 3+ switches do you need a multiswitch.


The biggest problem with pointing the round is getting the right settings, note no skew. Many threads here on places to find. (Dish has a zip_code program downloadable that works fine, also). The receiver only gives you the Elliptical settings or 101 only but not 119 by itself. (With a little math you can actually extrapolate pretty easy, understanding the elliptical is between 101 & 119, again ignore skew).


Tim
 

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Here is one URL for pointing a dish.

And another which can be very useful since you can use the sun/moon to point out the locations.


-=-

Mark


[This message has been edited by Mark Hoy (edited 09-16-2001).]
 

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Ok, I thought I was all set with my new DST 3000, but I am running into the same problem Al has - looks like Toshiba want to force you to buy a oval DirectTV dish to get HD.


Any ideas that might help me? Here is my setup:


1 Dish 300 Pointing at 61.5

1 Dish 500 Pointing at 110 and 119 - I have a single twin lnbf (twin = one side for 110 and one for 119 with one connector for each side) I have 75 strength on Dish 6000.


When I run the two connections from the 500 to a dish sw2 and then over to the Dish 300 and into another sw2 (total of 3 cables into one to receiver) I get good signals and programming on the Dish 6000. However, when I run one of the cables from the Dish 500 to the DST3000 I get a 35 signal and it will not setup - requires the dual and is looking for some switch. (It does say it is downloading the Program guide but then stops and says it can't locate the sat)


Am I destined to get another stinking dish to get HDNET? Or is there something else I could try? I'm afraid my house islooking like SatCom III already!


Thansks!
 

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Asunc,


The TWIN LNBF is the item causing you problems. You can get 119 out of a TWIN but you need to leave your Dish 6000 (using that same feed) on TV Land or a 119 station to get 199, 509, or other 119 stations.


look at Kevin Timmerman's diagrams for a more reliable way to do a hybrid setup, basically dumping the TWIN and adding 2 DLNBs in it's place.


Tim

 

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I think the diagrams indicate a DirectTV Oval dish (DSA8900E), right? From the looks of the Dish 500 lnbf mounting arm I can't easily replace the twin with two singles (right?) I saw his Dish 500 Diagrams but it only showed Dish receivers...


Another question- someone told me I would get all programming for dish from the 119 satellite - no need for 110 if I use one lnbf for Dish and one for Directv. Is this correct? if so I wonder why they bother with two satellites!!??


Thanks for the help
 

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Asunc,


Lets put aside your desire to add DirecTv for the moment. I'm confused about the setup description you used in regards to how you're getting your Dish programming. That is, if you truly are using a Twin lnb at the moment and are only feeding one Dish receiver (the 6000) you dont have to have 2 leads coming from your Twin. Only one, which then goes to the SW21 where it meets up with the 61.5 lead. This is because the Twin lnb is capable of passing both 110/119 all by itself because of an internal switch.


This means that were you to use one of the two Twin leads to feed a DirecTv receiver the 119 signal, that you wouldnt lose programming from 110 on Dish anyway. And for the record, there is some Dish programming on 110.


Now then, when hooking up the Twin, from a Dish hardware perspective it wouldnt matter which of the two leads you choose to send to an SW21 to pass along 110 and 119. But when hooking up a DirecTv receiver I believe it's better to connect the lead to the one on the housing that shows 119 because I believe that lnb defaults to 119 which is what we need.


Ok, so lets say we've done all this, are getting a usable 119 signal, say 75% to a DirecTv receiver, and are trying to download the program guide. As you described, it will only go up to a certain point, and then say it cant locate sat. Thats because it's trying to find the 101 bird to get that info from. It really would seem that certain DirecTv HD receivers do need to see 101 for a time, on intial setup at least.


I have the identical hardware, and just went through this procedure about 10 days ago. The only difference is, I had access to the 101 bird by swinging a dish to that position that I had pointing at a Canadaian bird. Then I was able to complete the guide download. Then I disconnected that lead from the DirecTv receiver, and reconnected the 119 line from the Twin. From that point on, I was able to get 119 and HDNet on that receiver.


Now whether that would have worked indefinitely, or would have failed after a time without being able to see 101 again for an update or whatever, I dont know, because I subsequently have replaced the dish that I was using for Canada only (and to use for 101 that one time), with a Dish500 I had laying around so I could get Canada and 101 at the same time...and thus now have both 101 and 119 going to the DirecTv receiver via 2 dishes and a 22khz switch that was mentioned earler.


Point being that if you dont want to at least initially add another dish pointing at 101, you could probably hook your receiver up to a friends system that sees 101 to get the download, then take it back home and plug 119 into it. That should work certainly at first...but only time would tell if it would work indefinitely.


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Dan




[This message has been edited by DP1 (edited 09-17-2001).]
 

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Al, im having the same problem w/ my hughes e86, the "oem" model of the dst3000 and the mits.


I jumped on the hughes e86 deal at abt for 527, kicking myself for selling my old dtc100.


I beleive the setup to get hdnet is quite different for these newer models than say the dtc100.


With all due respect, whenever I see someone posting problems re a hybrid dish/dtv setup, the timmerman url is linkified. The work done on that page is remarkable, but ALL of the setups use a directv dsa8900e. This is quite differnt from the dish 500 that we are all struggling with. The main problem seems to be that the lnbf on the dish 500 contains a built in switch for the 2 differnt sats. As asunc pointed out, the lnbfs on that sucker is hard to replace.


I have a spare feed on my dish 500 that Ive connected directly into the hughes(dtv) and I get all kinds of weird crap goin on. I get a pretty good signal on the 119 bird, 60-70 but the transponder strength comes and goes. I hit xponder 22 for example and I get nothin, i go up to 23 i get in the 70's, igo back to 30 and I get 70's too...???


The only thing the dtv people could tell me is that the oval dish from dishntwrk is not kosher for dtv.. great.


All those that have posted to just feed in the 119 from dish 500 into dtv, are any of you doing this to a non rca recvr? Dan, what kind of dtv recvr are you using?


Al K, please let me know if you can yank the 101 dish and still get hdnet. I have a spare bestbuy 29 dollar dtv dish in the closet and was hoping i could keep it there.


My options are


1) aim spare dtv dish at 101 set at round dish, download and authorize my card. reAim at 119 and set as oval and hopefully get hdnet and live like a dork with 3 freakin dishes hangin out of an apt!!


2) aim spare dish at 101, buy a 22hz switch to combine spare 119 feed from dish 500 and dtv's 101 and... live like a dork with 3 freakin dishes hangin out of an apt!!


3) aim spare dish at 101, set at round dish, download and authorize my card, unplug 101 dish, use spare output from dish 500 for 119 and set hughes for oval but only recieve 119 signal and live happily ever after.


Its the final one Im after.

I am a moron, so someone please post what Im doin wrong and what I need to do. I cant get any stations to come in, 100, 199, 202, 400 nothin. Ive also tried re aiming the dish 500 to try and pickup 101 with it, no dice. Same xponder jumping and no channels. (channel unavailble).

The only thing ive foudn for the xponder weirdness is problems with grounding blocks and switches. Im not using a ground block (im testing directly for now) and there are no switches (other than the one built into the lnbfs on the dish 500) that are in the way of my connections.


btw Ive tried all differnt kinds of configs in the recvr, from round to oval to oval +sat c, to whatever.


Tim, what do you mean by this?
Quote:
The TWIN LNBF is the item causing you problems. You can get 119 out of a TWIN but you need to leave your Dish 6000 (using that same feed) on TV Land or a 119 station to get 199, 509, or other 119 stations.
Are you saying I should put the sat feed into the antenna (terrestrial) input? Im confused, are you saying that the channel that my dish 6000 is on affects the feed to the directv box? The twin lnbf does seem to be a problem, but the twin is an integrated unit and I'd rather not fu(k up the dish 6000 setup which is perfect....


My setup only involves a dish 6000 and the one dtv recvr.


I gues the prime question is whether the 119+110 feed from the dish 500 can be used by a non dtc recvr.


K
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by kyungkim:



I gues the prime question is whether the 119+110 feed from the dish 500 can be used by a non dtc recvr.


K
Well, for the record, I'm using a non DTC unit..The new Mitsubishi to be exact. Not sure what to tell you other than what I've already mentioned..except that theres no question that a Dish500 should at least be able to be reset for DirecTv 101 with no problem. As I said, I'm doing that now with an extra Dish500..and pulling in Nimiq at 91 at the same time with it as well.




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Dan
 

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Ok Dan, you my man.


When you swung the dish 500 to to see the 101 bird, did you have another dish 500 set at 119 with the aforementioned switch and have the setting on your mits set to oval? Or did you have a single dish 500 aimed at 101 with the setting set to round?


Like I said, i tried re orienting my one dish 500 to look at the 101 sat and I had it set to round on my hughes. I believe i also tried it on oval as well but i still got the weird xponder thing goin on. If you say you can look at the 101 bird with a singl dish 500, i will try and do the reaiming again. I gave up when dtv tech support said I couldnt get the signal using dish equipment.


K
 

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First off, to clarify, when it looked like that I was going to have to point to 101 to download the guide info into the Mitsu the dish I swung to 101 wasnt a dish500. It was a standard dish that had been pointing at 91. Once I locked on 101 the Mitsu downloaded. Afterwards I disconnected that lead and plugged in the 119 from the Dish500. I could only do one sat signal at a time on the Mitsu at that point because I didnt yet have the 22khz switch. I was getting HDNet for about a week like that..then when the 22khz switch came is when I went ahead and changed that single dish to the 500 so I could have access to 101 from that dish and 119 from the Twin on the other 500 at the same time for the Mitsu..as well as continuing to have the feed from 91 for it's receiver.


What you should probably do to get 101 and the download, is point your single dish to it instead of your Dish500. It will probably be easier to get a sat lock...and you wont have to mess with the skew resetting..as well as not have to worry about whether the Twin lnb is screwing you up. Once you do finally get 101 into your Hughes for the data's sake..then you can worry about disconnecting 101, and trying again for 119 from your Twin on the 500.


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Dan
 

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I hate oval dishes and I seem to live like a dork to use kyngkim's terminology (3 dishes in use now - plus an BIG primestar that I could never lock on to PBS with !) I live in the woods with few open shots at the southern sky and have a 300 on one tree, a 500 on another tree and two other dishes hanging on the garage!


My situation is very similar to yours dp - I also have a big (24"??) round dish pointing at Nimiq. So my mission this weekend will be to swing the BEV/Nimiq dish to 101 and try to get the Program guide then go back to my 500 and take one of the leads and go after HDNET. I now understand the use of the twin lnbf so i can get rid of one of my sw21s and still get full Dish 119/110 programming - thanks for that tidbit! (And I won't have to worry about setting the Dish receiver to TVLand if I set up DTV to the 119 side of the twin, right?)


Thanks Guys!
 

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What a nighmare - trying to get one stinkin' channel!


I pointed the BEV dish at 101 and it downloaded the guide. The I hooked up the feed from the Dish 500 to the DST-3000 - went to setup and choose Oval Dish2 and it tried to download the guide - when finished the guide was completely gone and I had nothing. I kept trying different approaches - even combined the two sats with a cheap RS cable combiner. I could finally see all channels on the guide - called to activate and could see all HBOs except NO 509 or 199. I tried set up again and LOST the guide entry for 509 and 199, got disgusted and turn everything off (disconnected the cable too) ad went to bed. This morning I tried again and the entries were there again but still no picture!


When I look at the signal from 119 it is wacked - transponder 22 has a strength of 50, trans 23 has a strength of 65 and transponder 26 has a strength of 89, but I get nothing!


I believe Direct TV and Toshiba have succeeded in making it all but impossible to get the HDTV Signal without buying an oval dish - the one they want $150 for at Radio shack and Tweeter!


Dish Network really has it all over these guys. Too bad Mark Cuban didn't work a deal with Dish.


I know this is a rant - I don't slip into many - and I would welcome comments on the best place to get a reasonbly priced Oval DirecTV dish.


Thanks for being there....
 

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Actually, I was able to get the DST-3000 to work on 119 (I have two dishes, one pointed at 101 and one at 119, but no switch, A-B switcher instead), but it was really, really hacky.

Choose Oval 2, and when it starts retrieiving guide data, switch to 101, when it pauses swtich to 119. Really big pain in the ass, and it does me no good, because I ONLY want 119 in the room with the DST-3000 (and only have one 119 line run to that room).
 

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K & asunc,


What I meant by the set the 6000 to a 199 station is important with a TWIN LNBF (different that two Dual LNBFs). The TWIN effectively has a Dish SW42 built into, addressable switch vs. a DirecTV tone switch. With 3 receivers I split a TWIN feed to get 119 on a DST-3000, but need to switch 6000 to a 119 channel (on Dish) to keep 119 switching on DirecTV. DP may not need to do this if he has a TWIN feed dedicated only to a DirecTV box.


There is really nothing different in a DTC-100 from a DST-3000 in setting up a hybrid setup (I had both).


You can also sub 2 dishs from Kevin's 8a & 8b diagrams, but remember to ditch the skew on a 18 round (no option) or Dish 500 (probably set wrong), but you will not hit two sats then.


Hybrid setups are somwhat crazy given the incompatibiity in switchs, as above.


So what did I do yesterday for 6 hours. Ran 6 new quad shielded RG6 runs. Moved elliptical I was only using for 101 to where the Dish 500 was. Put 3 Dual LNBs (removing Sat C) on an elliptical and I'll see first hand if the diagrams work. It was dark and I was hitting nothing last night off the elliptical (it is a pain in the #$%^), but I was still watching HBO & Sho HD off of 61.5, and I have a SW64 on order.


I also much prefer the reliable cheap 22kHz switches for DirecTV vs. the 8900e included switch. Time will tell if I get down to 2 dishes.


Tim
 

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Rudolph,


I did tune my 6000 to 119 (TVLand) when trying this - no luck.


Anyone have any idea why I get strong signals on some transponders and low on others ??


Thanks
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by asunc:


I know this is a rant - I don't slip into many - and I would welcome comments on the best place to get a reasonbly priced Oval DirecTV dish.

Wal-Mart sells an RCA DirecTV plus receiver with an oval dish for $99 and change with no contract required. You could theoretically turn around and sell everything but the dish on eBay and make some of that $99 back.

 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I just disconnected my 101 LNBF and left the 119 LNBF connected to the DST-3000 through the switch. Just as you might suspect, I had HDNet available but no other unforseen problems. So you can lock onto 101 and 119; turn on the receiver and do the setup; take away the 101 signal. The problem here is that if you lose power or disconnect the reciever, you'll need a dish pointed at 101 to start things up again.


Another point. Think of Dish 500 as "Dish Network oval dish". You can use it with two single or dual LNBFs, or a TWIN LNBF. A TWIN LNBF IS NOT A DUAL LNBF. It is in fact two dual LNBFs and a 4X2 switch.


I have the Dish 500 antenna with a TWIN LNBF. If I'd had two separate LNBFs on the Dish 500, I could have used one connector on the dual 119 LNBF. One output of a dual lnbf on the Dish 500 and a round dish at 101 ,along with a switch, would have done what I ended up with.


Al Keown
 
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