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Hello

Looking for advice I successfully calibrated SD using HCFR but having a tough time with HDR

TV : Samsung 65q7O
Pattern generator :Raspberry Pi PGenerator with HD Fury Linker
Probe: x-rite i1 display pro Rev. b
Software: HCFR with the following settings: Rec2020 ;Smpte 2084 HDR everything else set to default

My grey scale and gamma seem to be all over the place and I can't seem to dial it in looking for any tips

View attachment 3038757 View attachment 3038758 View attachment 3038759 View attachment 3038760
First thing that stands out to me is the peak 100% luminance of only 351cd/m. The basic white balance isn't too bad, and your gamma/luminance tracking is similar to what you see stock on many HDR TV's, especially since your peak lu inance is low, the whole luminancde curve would be expected to dip below the target. Are you in full blown HDR mode and confirmed getting an HDR signal on the TV? The first things to look at when sweeping 2084 are peak luminance looking like actuall HDR peak luminance (so you know you are not somehow getting SDR patterns), and 50% shuld be around 95nit. If you can get your R G and B to be sort of together, your 50% at around 95nit, above that not as impoertant, below 50% more important...above like 60-70nit is where most HDR TV's just roll off into the peak luminance nit and flatten off.

Paul
 

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I suspect you meant 60-70%.
Sorry, I meant after the 60-70% rolloff curve most TV's just flatten out at their peak luminance. 60% at peak would mean your contrast slider would probably be too high! :-D

Paul
 

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First thing that stands out to me is the peak 100% luminance of only 351cd/m. The basic white balance isn't too bad, and your gamma/luminance tracking is similar to what you see stock on many HDR TV's, especially since your peak lu inance is low, the whole luminancde curve would be expected to dip below the target. Are you in full blown HDR mode and confirmed getting an HDR signal on the TV? The first things to look at when sweeping 2084 are peak luminance looking like actuall HDR peak luminance (so you know you are not somehow getting SDR patterns), and 50% shuld be around 95nit. If you can get your R G and B to be sort of together, your 50% at around 95nit, above that not as impoertant, below 50% more important...above like 60-70nit is where most HDR TV's just roll off into the peak luminance nit and flatten off.

Paul
As Thoth pointed out I used a 100% window instead of 10% window so that should help the peak 100% luminance. Thanks for the other tips going to give it another try this weekend
 

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100% for SDR, 10% for HDR. You should also be setting Local Dimming to Low or Standard for SDR, but High for HDR.
I'll go in here and mention I've been having trouble with SDR calibration for my Samsung 55" Q8DN (2018).
I never got satisfactory results until about just now. The greyscale was a mess to make look correct. Pattern window played a part on why it was getting funky & my selection for setup in HCFR.
I went from [white LED] ->[RG-Phosphor]->[GB-R LED].
I'll say 5-10% Window for SDR is bad in general on these TV's. It does some funky stuff with the RGB levels on a greyscale sweep. No way to get that correct in a small window with 0% APL background.
100% Window was mostly alright but it was pushing too much blue into the greyscale when just using my desktop in general. It was always off tinted in practical use.
I found a compromise in using 70-90% window calibration with 0% APL background. This fixed the "blue" shift in general and everything now looks alright to the eye at last in practical usage.

I'm now finally looking to do my HDR calibration. I'm wondering if the same 5-10% window is still a recommendation in general for HDR? In SDR it's unusable to make a measurement from to adjust settings.

i1Display Pro Plus.
 

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I'm now finally looking to do my HDR calibration. I'm wondering if the same 5-10% window is still a recommendation in general for HDR?
10% window is the recommendation I mostly see for QLED HDR. There is a CalMAN guide for 2018 Samsungs that says to use 100% window for HDR, no idea why, but the more recent CalMAN Home for Samsung guide says 10% window for all models.
 

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Well I did my first measurement by enabling HDR in Windows 10 and using HCFR setup for DCI-P3 & Rec2020 targets... Something isn't right at all.
Gamut/Primaries/saturation is horrible & the gamma is way out of whack.

Here is a Gamma chart. You are forced to use -3 Brightness to even begin to see how awful it looks. [HDMI - NORMAL]
3039336



There was this oddity with HDMI Black Level. It improved the peak brightness by a some if you used [Low] rather than [Normal]
Sample for [HDMI - LOW]. Needed only -2 Brightness here.
3039339


The gamut is just horrible overall not reaching anywhere close to targets... It looks like 50% from where it should be.
I'm missing something critical here.

EDIT:
If I would guess Windows 10 HDR is treating HCFR as a SDR application and limiting it's overall range by mapping it down into SDR targets rather than allowing it to produce a HDR picture.
 

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Discussion Starter #850
Well I did my first measurement by enabling HDR in Windows 10 and using HCFR setup for DCI-P3 & Rec2020 targets... Something isn't right at all.
Gamut/Primaries/saturation is horrible & the gamma is way out of whack.

The gamut is just horrible overall not reaching anywhere close to targets... It looks like 50% from where it should be.
I'm missing something critical here.
Ηi

When you calibrate, it's essential to display accurate patches.

Also, when you calibrate for HDR, you need to have control of the metadata you send.

If you see the measured Y with target Y, you will see that your display has a gamma power-law response, not PQ.

So something is wrong with your patches.

If you want some accurate and low-cost solution for patch generation, invest to a Rasberry Pi 3 Model B+ and install PGenerator for SDR and bit-perfect RGB SDR patches.


Adding an HD Fury Linker to the output of PGenerator will inject AVI and HDR10 metadata to provide you bit-perfect HDR10 RGB patch generation.

You can have level-mismatch when you use PC/Notebook for patch generator; it requires specific settings to software/GPU to output correct levels.

Also, not all GPU have bit-perfect output; when you calibrate for HDR, it's very important to have bit-perfect patches.

RGB REC2020 signaling will enable your TV large gamut, HD Fury has that 'flag' to add to your signal.
 

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Ηi

When you calibrate, it's essential to display accurate patches.

Also, when you calibrate for HDR, you need to have control of the metadata you send.

If you see the measured Y with target Y, you will see that your display has a gamma power-law response, not PQ.

So something is wrong with your patches.

If you want some accurate and low-cost solution for patch generation, invest to a Rasberry Pi 3 Model B+ and install PGenerator for SDR and bit-perfect RGB SDR patches.


Adding an HD Fury Linker to the output of PGenerator will inject AVI and HDR10 metadata to provide you bit-perfect HDR10 RGB patch generation.

You can have level-mismatch when you use PC/Notebook for patch generator; it requires specific settings to software/GPU to output correct levels.

Also, not all GPU have bit-perfect output; when you calibrate for HDR, it's very important to have bit-perfect patches.

RGB REC2020 signaling will enable your TV large gamut, HD Fury has that 'flag' to add to your signal.
I figured out what is wrong with HCFR HDR patches... Windows 10 HDR is interfering and treating the application like it's SDR, it does not recognize it being HDR. So it's doing a conversion down into SDR range for all it's output.
I found this out by the Windows 10 HDR/SDR Brightness balance effect your HCFR patch generation, this should not be doing anything for HDR applications but it does for HCFR as noted.

So your suggestion about another patch generator like Rasberry with proper software is valid.

Though I could probably use if there is available some VIDEO HDR patch files? I could run that through my Media Player to generate the HDR patches if there are some HDR patches made for calibration for that. (such probably exist)

So HCFR is bunk for HDR generation but should still work if you have another source if your just using it to measure.
 

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Discussion Starter #852
I figured out what is wrong with HCFR HDR patches... Windows 10 HDR is interfering and treating the application like it's SDR, it does not recognize it being HDR. So it's doing a conversion down into SDR range for all it's output.
I found this out by the Windows 10 HDR/SDR Brightness balance effect your HCFR patch generation, this should not be doing anything for HDR applications but it does for HCFR as noted.

So your suggestion about another patch generator like Rasberry with proper software is valid.

Though I could probably use if there is available some VIDEO HDR patch files? I could run that through my Media Player to generate the HDR patches if there are some HDR patches made for calibration for that. (such probably exist)

So HCFR is bunk for HDR generation but should still work if you have another source if your just using it to measure.
HCFR will send RGB triplets to PGenerator, then using HD Fury GUI with any HD Fury Device, which can inject AVI and HDR10 Metadata (HD Fury Linker is the lower-cost model), so patterns will become HDR10.
 

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HCFR will send RGB triplets to PGenerator, then using HD Fury GUI with any HD Fury Device, which can inject AVI and HDR10 Metadata (HD Fury Linker is the lower-cost model), so patterns will become HDR10.
Thanks, but I was hopeful enough one could have managed with only the colorimeter and single software to have it all done.
What a mess to get this stuff right.
 

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Thanks, but I was hopeful enough one could have managed with only the colorimeter and single software to have it all done.
At the moment, and for the past several years, that's nothing more than a fantasy unfortunately - if you want it done accurately, that is.

If you think it's a mess now it's not, you're missing the big picture - before we had the brilliant Raspberry Pi it was not possible to calibrate HDR without buying an incredible expensive professional pattern generator or winning the lottery with the right video card in your PC. Today's situation is actually wonderful in reality.
 

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Though I could probably use if there is available some VIDEO HDR patch files? I could run that through my Media Player to generate the HDR patches if there are some HDR patches made for calibration for that. (such probably exist)
You could try the Mehanik patterns. But if you want to do 20pt white balance, it will depend on whether the pattern steps match up with your TV's steps.
 

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You could try the Mehanik patterns. But if you want to do 20pt white balance, it will depend on whether the pattern steps match up with your TV's steps.
This is great! Just what I need. I tested a couple few and they work on playback and kick in HDR mode properly, though I will need to hook up the colorimeter & HCFR on a second computer to do the readings as HDR only works in full-screen exclusive mode.
I will have to check accuracy on playback but MADVR should do it properly for it to be be applicable for other things what you set there from the measurements. (HDR games)

This should work out.
 

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At the moment, and for the past several years, that's nothing more than a fantasy unfortunately - if you want it done accurately, that is.

If you think it's a mess now it's not, you're missing the big picture - before we had the brilliant Raspberry Pi it was not possible to calibrate HDR without buying an incredible expensive professional pattern generator or winning the lottery with the right video card in your PC. Today's situation is actually wonderful in reality.
I get it. I've been on the sidelines waiting for things to be manageable! I was getting a look that it should be possible by now but was a little more work than I thought to get started with this, but been at it for 3 weeks now and gotten better and better as I figure out the software & hardware capabilities. I was thinking it would take a maximum of a week to get this done but all I've gotten to work is SDR and probably need as much time to get HDR into a working condition.

This stuff really takes time to do manually without automated tools and starting from scratch.

Thanks for all the tips & help guys!
 

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I did what probably could be one of the cheapest Dolby Vision and HDR10 calibrations possible. The results are amazing. I assume its part linear tracking of the EOTF, my 2 pt color temperature calibration to D65 done using the factory menu and display internal patterns. Then a SDR calibration and applying the SDR 100% white balance settings to 60% of the EOTF PQ curve.

Just a Spyder4Pro and HCFR

Sent from my LGMP450 using Tapatalk
 

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I did what probably could be one of the cheapest Dolby Vision and HDR10 calibrations possible. The results are amazing. I assume its part linear tracking of the EOTF, my 2 pt color temperature calibration to D65 done using the factory menu and display internal patterns. Then a SDR calibration and applying the SDR 100% white balance settings to 60% of the EOTF PQ curve.

Just a Spyder4Pro and HCFR

Sent from my LGMP450 using Tapatalk
Would you share you settings? Im assuming it's for your Vizio? I have the same tv as you. I would love to give yours a try even though I know it can be panel dependant. Always looking for new tweaks.
 

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I having a strange anomaly with HDR content and only seems to be games. Any white text or icons over a Black or Grey I can actually watch the warm tone of white letters/icon shift to a blue tint. Letters almost appear to have an oil slick appearance. This only seems to happen on HDR games and I cannot replicate it if I switch the console to SDR.

Adjusting gamma seems to help the text/icons not have this blue shine to them.

It's driving me crazy. I don't know if this is color accuracy related, greyscale related, fald related or what. It's maddening.
 
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