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Discussion Starter #1
I know most of you are gonna say HDR is da bomb, but I kind of feel it's too bright. I watch movies with the lights out on an OLED calibrated to ~135 nits. Even this can look bright sometimes, but with HDR on? Way too much. I played some PS4 last night with HDR on, and the white text on the menus is overly bright. Depending on the game, things looked good, but I find it very fatiguing on the eyes.
 

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I just purchased my first 4K HDR display, a Sony 900E. I will primarly use it for gaming with a PS4 Pro. A agree that the HDR brightness is quite a surprise to me. I suppose it should not have been a surprise (high dynamic range pretty much says it all). But I feel much more eye fatigue and have experienced headaches after just an hour or two.

I don’t want to turn down the backlight down too much, but I’d like to find a way to overcome the eye strain.

What have other people expereinced?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I just purchased my first 4K HDR display, a Sony 900E. I will primarly use it for gaming with a PS4 Pro. A agree that the HDR brightness is quite a surprise to me. I suppose it should not have been a surprise (high dynamic range pretty much says it all). But I feel much more eye fatigue and have experienced headaches after just an hour or two.

I don’t want to turn down the backlight down too much, but I’d like to find a way to overcome the eye strain.

What have other people expereinced?
Best bet is probably a bias light behind the TV, or maybe just make the room lights brighter. My problem is, I like to watch movies with all the lights out, and I turn them down low even for gaming. So for the most part, I just leave HDR turned off.
 

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Best bet is probably a bias light behind the TV, or maybe just make the room lights brighter. My problem is, I like to watch movies with all the lights out, and I turn them down low even for gaming. So for the most part, I just leave HDR turned off.
I’m starting with a Bias Light and playing with more lights on in the room. I think that is already helping (unless it is a placebo effect and my eyes will end up burning out in a week and I’m rushed to the hospital with crippling headaches).

It is definitely a change for me since I also tend to use the screen in a dark room, especially when gaming.
 

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Standard Video Industry Practice For Eye Strain/Fatigue

This "sticky" thread is from the 'Display Calibration' section of the forum. Color-correct video display viewing environment ambient lighting best practices have been used internationally by video professionals for over half of a century. The techniques are thoroughly proven and not a "placebo." Curiously, these principles are largely ignored in the consumer market, and even by some on the professional side of the industry.

'D65 Video Bias Lighting- Fundamental Theory And Practice'
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1162578

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.
SMPTE, THX, ISF, Lion AV Consultants

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging'
 

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Discussion Starter #6
This "sticky" thread is from the 'Display Calibration' section of the forum. Color-correct video display viewing environment ambient lighting best practices have been used internationally by video professionals for over half of a century. The techniques are thoroughly proven and not a "placebo." Curiously, these principles are largely ignored in the consumer market, and even by some on the professional side of the industry.

'D65 Video Bias Lighting- Fundamental Theory And Practice'
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1162578

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.
SMPTE, THX, ISF, Lion AV Consultants

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging'
I agree that bias lighting can be very helpful, but one big reason people seem to use it is to trick their eyes into thinking black levels are better. With OLED, there is no need to do this because blacks are perfect. The other reason is to combat eye fatigue, and in the case of OLED, bias lighting can still help. The thing is, I prefer to watch movies in darkness. I've also found that if I calibrate my screen to the recommended 30-40 ftL range, I don't get eye fatigue, even in darkness.

Now HDR is a whole other thing. I don't see how anyone can watch in the dark; it's just too bright to me. I don't want the sky to look as bright as it does in real life. Also, some of my dislike for HDR could be due to how it's implemented. For example, with HDR on in my PS4, the white text and white outlines around the icons on the menu are extremely bright.
 

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I agree that bias lighting can be very helpful, but one big reason people seem to use it is to trick their eyes into thinking black levels are better. With OLED, there is no need to do this because blacks are perfect. The other reason is to combat eye fatigue, and in the case of OLED, bias lighting can still help. The thing is, I prefer to watch movies in darkness. I've also found that if I calibrate my screen to the recommended 30-40 ftL range, I don't get eye fatigue, even in darkness.

Now HDR is a whole other thing. I don't see how anyone can watch in the dark; it's just too bright to me. I don't want the sky to look as bright as it does in real life. Also, some of my dislike for HDR could be due to how it's implemented. For example, with HDR on in my PS4, the white text and white outlines around the icons on the menu are extremely bright.
Individual viewer preferences may vary. However, it's of value to understand a fundamental original inspiration for this AV Science forum. In the mid 80's a "sea change" in the consumer video market occurred when Joe Kane co-founded the Imaging Science Foundation, which began educating both video industry professionals and consumers about the importance of video standards and best practices developed by the Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers, under his coordination and oversight. SMPTE members wanted end users to benefit from their efforts to unify quality performance in program mastering and reproduction. These efforts helped bring an end to the days of NTSC video being refered to as "never the same color."

Television imaging should be understood in light of faithful program reproduction. The viewing experience is made up of not just the gear, and the signals being fed to electronic equipment, but also the human perceptual factors involved with the viewer. Joe Kane's education of the market included explaining these elements. For many, these elements were substantially new considerations. Color-correct bias lighting and viewing room conditions are central to such principles. The viewing environment should be undersood as critical a component to faithful program reproduction as any of the electronic devices in the delivery chain.

A good example of how vital these principles continue to be regarded by video experts is revealed in the newly revised and recently published standards document: SMPTE ST 2080-3:2017 'Reference Viewing Environment for Evaluation of HDTV Images.' It affermatively states:

"The creation of television images that are intended to follow a standard of consistency in reproduction requires definition of a reference display, of a controlled viewing environment, and of a set of measurement
procedures to enable consistent calibration of both display and environment. This document specifies a controlled viewing environment referred to as the Reference Viewing Environment."


As a decades-long advocate for imaging science principles and faithful video program reproduction, it has been my personal mission to help professionals and consumers appreciate such human factors realities. Consumers who value image fidelity and authentic program reproduction in their home entertainment systems are served well by emulating professional best practices when designing and installing them.

The revisions to reference viewing environment standards and best practices were needed to address advancements in technology since the NTSC video days. Consideration was given to the latest advent of OLED displays, HDR, and wide color gamut program production for UHD. OLED displays are fast becoming the prefered mastering monitors in UHD program post production. The video white point and ambient lighting still specified for UHD mastering is CIE D65, loosely referred to as 6500K color temperature. The former recommendation for ambient light level of 10% of the peak white brightness of the display has been replaced with a formal standard of 5 nits (candellas per square meter). This allows for the improvements in a lower black level delivered by HDR-capable mastering monitors, such as OLEDs. This partial quote from the new standards document mentioned above helps elaborate on this topic:

"Annex A Surround Luminance Level (Informative)

Predecessor documents on the display environment, specifically SMPTE RP 166:1995, cite a surround level that is 10% of reference white. However, this level is rarely if ever used; the surround is usually set at a far lower level. The question that then arises is where the 10% level comes from, and by what means was it determined?

A review of the literature, particularly in the SMPTE Journal, reveals that it can be traced to work done at the CBC and CRC in Canada in the 1960s and 70s, and was greatly influenced by the characteristics and
limitations of monochrome and early color CRTs. Indeed, significant effort was expended to reduce the effective contrast range of the CRTs to at most 100:1, and the surround level was set at the center of the
contrast range in order to achieve a satisfactory subjective black.

The industry no longer uses CRT-based displays, and we go to significant effort to minimize or eliminate ambient illumination of the display’s face. We expect our HDTV reference displays to be able to reproduce a black level of .05 nits or less, which when combined with the reference white level of 100 nits gives a contrast range of 2,000:1. The center of this range is sqrt(100 x .05) or approximately 2.24 nits. This is not
necessarily the optimum setting for the surround level, however.

There is consensus in the industry that 10 nits is too high, as evidenced by the fact that this level is rarely if ever used. Research has revealed that surround levels below 2 nits have minimal effect on the perception of black. This implies that a suitable surround level will be somewhere below 10 nits but not lower than 2 nits. The geometric mean of these two values is 4.5 nits, so a value close to this would seem to be a reasonable compromise.

While science can confirm what would happen in average observer responses across different surround levels and in well-defined use cases, this does not answer the question of what the level should be. The
conclusion is that there probably is no single optimal surround level that science can give us; the best we can expect is a range. However, there is agreement that we need to specify a surround level that is consistent and repeatable from facility to facility, given the influence of the surround on the perception of black and (to a lesser extent) on the appearance of color.

A survey of user organizations also wrestling with this issue revealed that the industry was independently converging on a consensus of 5 cd/m2 for the luminance level of the surround. Given this, and the factors
already cited, it was agreed to adopt this as the standard luminance level for the surround in the reference viewing environment for HDTV."
 

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I just purchased my first 4K HDR display, a Sony 900E. I will primarly use it for gaming with a PS4 Pro. A agree that the HDR brightness is quite a surprise to me. I suppose it should not have been a surprise (high dynamic range pretty much says it all). But I feel much more eye fatigue and have experienced headaches after just an hour or two.

I don’t want to turn down the backlight down too much, but I’d like to find a way to overcome the eye strain.

What have other people expereinced?
On Sony tvs you can turn down the backlight without it effecting the rest of the image quality. On my 900E for HDR gaming I set the brightness level to 30, maybe 25 in some cases. I thought HDR was meant to have maxed out the brightness for the full effect but no matter what you do on these newer and brighter tvs it is just too strong for anything more than a few minutes.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
On Sony tvs you can turn down the backlight without it effecting the rest of the image quality. On my 900E for HDR gaming I set the brightness level to 30, maybe 25 in some cases. I thought HDR was meant to have maxed out the brightness for the full effect but no matter what you do on these newer and brighter tvs it is just too strong for anything more than a few minutes.
I think I could probably just turn down OLED Light (which is sort of like backlight, I think), but overall, I just like the SDR look better.
 

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On Sony tvs you can turn down the backlight without it effecting the rest of the image quality. On my 900E for HDR gaming I set the brightness level to 30, maybe 25 in some cases. I thought HDR was meant to have maxed out the brightness for the full effect but no matter what you do on these newer and brighter tvs it is just too strong for anything more than a few minutes.
Thanks for this. I have a lot to learn about getting the most out of these new displays. I thought I'd have to have run on max brightness as well. I'm still obsessively experimenting with settings, but I'm making some progress of finding an acceptable balance between performance and comfort.
 

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A lot of it might depend on the game. I'm sure HDR isn't properly used in many of them.
I had a nice moment in Destiny 2 last night in the EDZ when the sun was going down and I thought, "wow, this looks nice." I'm going to start going through my catalog of games that are enhanced for PS4 Pro. Not all will have HDR enhancements, of course, but I suspect that some will take advantage of HDR.
 
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