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I am sure some of you have noticed this already but we have turned a corner in the adoption of HD ready sets. Get out your Best Buy (or similar) ad from this week. Now go to the big screen TV page. Remember how a few months ago there would be like 4 big screen SD sets and maybe one or two HD sets. Now it's the opposite. Among the big screens, the SD sets are now the footnote. Several people at work who will have no clue on what they really need to do to get HD are at least purchasing HD ready sets. One of the major drivers (IMO) is the look of a DVD on these sets via progressive scan or even via S-video with the line doubler. I'm sure some of you noticed this already but we are getting there. Last year when I mentioned HD people looked at me like I just came from the AV club in the basement of the science bldg. This summer the question is "what set should I buy." As a footnote, for better or worse, these people are totally oblivious to the the copy protection/compatibility issues that most of us are worried about.
 

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All I know is...I had a hard time finding a bigscreen locally that was not HDTV. That sounds crazy but look around.


Now my problem is finding a deal on a dish 6000.

info overload

LOL
 

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You are doing a disservice to those who really are ready to upgrade their TVs. The copy protection issue will not be impacting HDTV for some time, even if it does some time down the road, will not impact the existing programming. If they do, they will have a PR nightmare. On the other hand, things constantly change in the electronics business, similar to the PC segment. To wait for a "full-proof" system is to wait forever.


Of course for those who can not think of justifying the cost of the upgrade at this time, you may offer your advice to ease their minds.


BTW, prpgressive DVD players are down to $250 already, and people really should see a progressive DVD in action on a well calibrated HD ready TV before they make up their minds.


[This message has been edited by jacmyoung (edited 08-22-2001).]
 

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Wait 'til this time next year! When a couple hundred more OTA stations hit the airwaves next Spring, expect sets to start falling in price even faster. Joe Schmo still doesn't see any need to spend two-three times the price for the same size digital set as the one he bought last year, and you know what, I don't either! I think the market will bring 32-38 inch direct-view HD sets in 16:9 down to about 800-1000 bucks within a year or so...

John


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I've had my HD ready set for 1 1/2 years now and love it. I actually spend little time watching the 6 digital OTA stations avaliable where I live but it makes a great big screen web surfing display and I love the DVD playback. And I use it a lot with DScaler through my Tivo.


None of these are likely to be impacted at all by copy protection over the life of this set.


But yes, they will probably continue to get cheaper. I just didn't want to wait anymore for the other benifits.


- Tom


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HTPC FAQ , DScaler , Xcel's Links , and
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jordan:
....They also won't spend $500 for a decent progressive DVD player, so there's no reason to have component in....
I completely disagree here. Does progressive DVD look better than interlaced? Absolutely. But here's the point, the big jump is between SD 4:3 NTSC non-line doubled and 16:9 internally line doubled HDTV displaying 480i DVD's. Even if the line doubler is crap. Also, the advantage to component inputs is NOT interlaced vs progressive, it is color purity and overall picture quality. Another HUGE difference between the two.


Given these factors I see 480i to 480p as a minor jump. Considering there is hardly any HDTV content anyway the only way to justify purchasing today's HDTVs are DVDs and it's a darn good reason at that. Progressive or not. You also get the future compatability with the 1080i/720p inputs. Nothing is guarenteed with HDCP/5C yet.


You should at least explain to those you advise that much and let them decide.


Rick
 

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Jordan,


It looks like your family needs a new guru. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif If your friends/family can't afford an HD-ready set, they should limp along with their current set while saving money for the point at which their increasing savings equals the decreasing prices of HD-capable sets.


If they can afford an HD-ready set, buying one now will certainly be more prudent in the long run than buying a non-HD unit, then trying to sell it (worthless by then) and buy an HD set later.


There's plenty of HD programming via satellite now; those following your advice will enjoy no HD until years later.


David
 

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I have an old and dear friend locally who wants to buy an expensive plasma set for home theater use, principally to play progressive-scan DVDs at first. He lives in a tony neighborhood on a hillside in La Jolla where all the homes further up look down on the homes below--by unspoken agreement the neighbors avoid certain changes that would ruin the cosmetics of the scene. He won't mar his rooftop by installing a dish or any funky arial, so he won't have HD broadcast service before Time Warner offers it on cable locally, not something you'd want to hold your breath waiting for. I explained the copy-protection issue and suggested that he might want to wait and see how it shakes out before he buys and he rejected that notion, and is will to accept image constraint on some types of HD content in the future. At least he's an informed consumer. He has a few more pressing home improvements in line ahead of that one, so by the time he's ready to buy, maybe all the latest and greatest flatscreens will be copy-protected. He doesn't care.


As for HD turning a corner, I sure haven't noticed it. If you're talking about "higher definition" sets with HD analog component inputs and less than the 1280 pixel vertical resolution required for the minimum format that can be called HD, maybe, but as for 16x9 sets capable of true HD resolutions, I'm not seeing particularly more of them on the showroom floors than before, or any fewer 4x3 bigscreens. All these things are still too pricey to fly out of the shops, but they're getting there. The new $2000 Panasonic 47" 16x9 HD RPTV and the reduced price on Mitsubishi's 46"er make them very competitive--there are 4x3 sets at around the same size that cost the same.


But I'm willing to bet that the number of 36" and smaller 4x3 direct-views sold for every true HD set sold remains very, very large.


-- Mike Scott



[This message has been edited by michaeltscott (edited 08-22-2001).]
 

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One misconception about the DBS dishes is they must sit on the roof. Not so if there is no obstruction in the way. I have a total of six dishes, except the one with very low look angle (61.5), all are in my back yard along one side of fence at the ground level. No one sees them unless walking in to my back yard.
 

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But I'm willing to bet that the number of 36" and smaller 4x3 direct-views sold for every true HD set sold remains very, very large.


-- Mike Scott



The following is from the 8/21/01 edition of Mark Schubin's Monday Memo.


- According to CEA, sales to U.S. dealers of (supposedly) non-H/DTV projection TVs for the first 31 weeks of 2001 were down 20.9% from the same period a year ago. My ten-week running average is down 23.9%, a BIG improvement, and, amazingly, the week-31 figures showed a 15.8% INCREASE in sales over the previous year -- the only category besides DVD to show growth. Again, if sales of what CEA calls "digital" projection TVs were included, the year-to-date figure would be UP quite a bit. Direct-view sales were down 11.7% for the period (my 10-week average is down 20.1%). Home-VCR factory sales were down 30.1% for the period.



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Quote:
Originally posted by jacmyoung:
One misconception about the DBS dishes is they must sit on the roof. Not so if there is no obstruction in the way. I have a total of six dishes, except the one with very low look angle (61.5), all are in my back yard along one side of fence at the ground level. No one sees them unless walking in to my back yard.
The only other place he could hang them is from the eaves over his back decks and then he and any of his guest would have to look at them, as well as anyone in the back yards of the immediately adjacent homes. I can assure you, that would be worse.


I just rented a townhouse in Del Mar whose patio faces the south. The roof is not a "private use area" and the association does not want dishes mounted there. I tried to have Echostar mount a dish on a tripod on my patio, and when they failed to be able to acquire signal between the trees, I was almost glad--the dish was way too ugly to live with on my patio. I wouldn't care if it were on the roof, nestled in the crook of the chimney, where I'd rarely see it.



-- Mike Scott



[This message has been edited by michaeltscott (edited 08-22-2001).]
 

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Quote:
As a footnote, for better or worse, these people are totally oblivious to the the copy protection/compatibility issues that most of us are worried about.
You know, I hate to admit this but my initial reaction to your post was "Good! I'll have some company when my HDTV starts getting down-rezzed in two years."


But the more I think about it, the more that I start coming around to a new attitude on this whole issue. A few weeks ago I started this thread where I took NEC to task for not providing some sort of solution or upgrade path for their analog projector customers. My feelings towards NEC still haven't changed (and for now, neither will my signature line), but I'm beginning to think that every analog HDTV bought by the unsuspecting public is one more nail in the coffin for anything happening on the HDCP/DVI/etc. front... or at least it will forestall that day from arriving for just that little bit longer that Hollywouldn't and the CE manufacturers want to avoid pissing off Mr. and Mrs. America.


I still don't feel comfortable right now recommending that friends and family go out and buy an expensive HD monitor or projector, but I'm not so sure that that will continue to be my answer in the future. Hmm. You've definitely given me something to think about. Hmm.


Incidentally, I was in Sears today to buy a table saw (yes, I know, very butch of me) and was flabbergasted by the array of widescreen HDTV sets on display. I didn't do an exact count, but it definitely seemed to me that 16:9 HDTV sets outnumbered the 4:3 HDTV and non-HDTV sets. What's more, most if not all of the HDTV's appeared to be on sale.


Hmm.


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DFAST is EVIL! BOYCOTT ANTI-CONSUMER 5C/DVI/HDCP MANUFACTURERS!
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Can someone tell me when the dish became the pink flamingo of the neighborhood? When I see a dish at a friend's or neighbor's house I'm not at all disgusted. I'll admit the big antennas can be a bit of an eyesore, but if it helps receive OTA HDTV, then go for it. Anyway, what's so picturesque about looking down on a roof that's clear rather than a roof with a sat dish?


Gimme a break.


JediMastr


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Quote:
Originally posted by JediMastr:
Can someone tell me when the dish became the pink flamingo of the neighborhood? When I see a dish at a friend's or neighbor's house I'm not at all disgusted. I'll admit the big antennas can be a bit of an eyesore, but if it helps receive OTA HDTV, then go for it. Anyway, what's so picturesque about looking down on a roof that's clear rather than a roof with a sat dish?


Gimme a break.


JediMastr

This is Southern(most) California--these roofs are all terra cotta tiles in various subtle shades terraced down to the cove--they are kind of pretty.


These are $1,000,000+ homes in this neighborhood (my friend and his missus bought in 15 years ago at a considerably lower price)--they want to keep the property values high. They tell me that they recently fought an extended border-skirmish with their next-door neighbor to keep them from putting in a tacky chain-link fence (and lost http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif ).


As for that DISH Network dish-on-a-tripod on my patio, I'd rather have a brace of plastic pink flamingos. The thing was butt-ugly (particularly it's conspicuous and tasteless DISH Network logo) and somehow bigger than I thought'd be. My landlord is willing to go to an association meeting to seek a variance if I can find a photo of a discreet roof installation--the installer says that they strap it to the chimney, doing no damage to the roof, nestling it as discreetly as possible at the base. DISH also states that you can paint everything but the LNB to match your house, recommending a flat exterior house paint. I'd be willing to buy a dish and paint it matching terra-cotta if the association will let me mount it on the roof where I don't have to see it.


Since I don't own an HDTV yet, and won't until I see where this copy protection thing is going, I mostly want it for the superior PVR. I own a 30 hour Tivo, and use it only on the highest quality setting, for 9 hours of recording. But normal Tivo digitizes and compresses the analog NTSC you feed into it. DBS enters your home in compressed form, and the DISH PVR (and DIRECTivo) simple store the incoming bits from the satellite, for 35 hours of video in original quality. I don't necessarily need more than the 9 hours of storage that I have, but there are times when it would be nice--when I've been on vacation or on a business trip or when I'm trying to catch a sporting event with a lot of coverage (like the upcoming tennis US Open). But it ain't worth living with the dish on a tripod on my patio.


(BTW--I was choosing DISH over DIRECTV only because I perceive their HDTV support to be better).


-- Mike Scott




[This message has been edited by michaeltscott (edited 08-22-2001).]
 

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I'm advising friends/family not to buy a HD set right now. Save the extra dough and get a SD, wait for a few years before jumping in with HD. Most people I know would be very disappointed to get a HD-ready set, only to find that by the time they can afford a receiver (or, in my case, local HD goes on-air) they may not get HD resolutions. They also won't spend $500 for a decent progressive DVD player, so there's no reason to have component in.


Jordan
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by JediMastr:
Can someone tell me when the dish became the pink flamingo of the neighborhood? When I see a dish at a friend's or neighbor's house I'm not at all disgusted. I'll admit the big antennas can be a bit of an eyesore, but if it helps receive OTA HDTV, then go for it. Anyway, what's so picturesque about looking down on a roof that's clear rather than a roof with a sat dish?
The city where I live outlawed all antenna's 30 years ago.


You must remember that Government and home owner association boards attract control freaks who are convinced they can run your life better than you can.


Forbidding antennas gives them control. That is their main thrill in life.
 
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