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Discussion Starter #1
Hi, I'm getting an Elliptical dish (with the 2 dual lnb's) and I'm going to take the 4 lines coming from the onboard multiswitch into a 5x8 multiswitch in my media closet. All the RG-6 in my house is "home-run". My question is, I only have two lines coming from the media closet to where my newly purchased Toshiba 57HX81 (thanks for all the comments people) will go. I have a Sony SAT-T60 DirecTivo box and naturally I'll take those two lines and connect them to the T60. The problem I'm facing, is if down the road I want to get an HD STB, how will I connect it? I want to keep the dual tuners on the DirecTivo, and its near impossible for me to run another line to the TV from the media closet since all the walls are closed up and no conduit was run...


Can I take the two lines coming from the media closet to the TV and connect them to a 2x or 3x4 multiswitch and still have HD capable (DTV+) signals on all of them? The 5x8 I mentioned above would be a JVI that I believe is "non-cascadable" because it doesn't have the special "LNB output" jacks on it, just the 8 receiver outputs. Anyways, will using that 3x4 work? Would it be wise to connect an OTA antenna into the "antenna" input on the 5x8 and then use a diplexer on the line going to the HD STB?


Thanks,

Black
 

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Quote:
I'm going to take the 4 lines coming from the onboard multiswitch into a 5x8 multiswitch in my media closet
It will not work. Skip the on-board switch and run the lines straight from the LNB's to the 5x8 switch.

Quote:
Can I take the two lines coming from the media closet to the TV and connect them to a 2x or 3x4 multiswitch and still have HD capable (DTV+) signals on all of them?
You are trying to use the switch as a splitter and it will not work. On a 2x4 switch, one input sends a 13volt signal to the LNB and one input sends an 18volt signal to the LNB. The receiver will send one of these voltages to the switch based on what channel you are watching. The switch then connects that output to the correct input. By cascading switches, you will only get half of the channels on each output of the second switch.


If the coax hasn't been stapled to the studs on the inside of your walls, use it to pull up some more. I got lucky recently at a friend's house. The builder had been lazy and just dropped the coax. I taped a string to it and pulled it into the attic. I taped another coax onto it and used the string to pull both pieces of coax back down the wall.


-Robert
 

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Discussion Starter #3
But as long as the 2x4 has both the 13v and 18v inputs (they wouldn't be the ones from the LNB, but they'd be from the 5x8, why wouldn't it work?


Anyone?


Thanks
 

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as just mentioned, afaik, most switches use the 22kHz tone to pick an input - they don't pass the tone up the chain (as they believe the inputs are connected directly up to the LNB, which wouldn't know what to do with the tone).


I have read some examples of folks who have just cascaded the MS's and have had no problems accessing 119 from the second MS, so perhaps some of them do pass the tones on up.


At this point, I would say that unless you know otherwise, be prepared for it not to work.


dinesh
 

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moreover, you'll never be able to access all your DTV+ channels (which means 4 connections to 4 LNB's) with a 2xAnything switch.


Say you got your HD receiver, in addition to your DTiVo. Say the DTiVo tuner #1 wants a channel that's on the 13V LNB of 101. Say DTiVo tuner #2 needs something on the 18V LNB of 101. Say the HD receiver wants HDnet, on the 13V LNB of 119. How are all three of those signals going to come down to the second multiswitch if it only has 2 inputs?


Each and every multiswitch in your system must have the same number of inputs as you have satellite LNB downleads, or some receivers won't have access to some channels. (Moreover, this is a necessary, but not sufficient, condition - you also need to worry about cascading MS's and the 22kHz tone. Which is why you also can't run the 4x4 into the 5x8 most likely.)


I tried a new MS explanation in this thread, try it and see if things are any clearer (probably not, but it's an experiement for me more than anything else):

http://www.avsforum.com/ubbtivo/Forum5/HTML/006671.html


dinesh
 

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heh, one final thing. I think you can do exactly what you want to do by using a stacker/destacker. This will let you stack 2 signals onto one cable, which would effectively let you run 3 signals (for your DTiVo and a HD STB) down 2 cables. Or if you bought 2 sets of stackers/destackers, you could run 4 signals down 2 cables.


Your setup would look like this then: 4 LNB's to the 5x8 switch. Take 2 outputs and stack them onto one cable. Take the stacked cable and another one, and run them to your home entertainment room. Unstack the stacked cable, for a total of 3 cables. connect to your receivers.


The use of the 5th input, and diplexors, is completely different. Use it if you have an OTA signal you want to distribute. Use a diplexor to break it out again later. The diplexed signal may or may not be usable with the stacked signal, though - the stacker basically takes a certain frequency band and shifts it to a new frequency, so if the OTA signal is diplexed outside that range it might cause weird problems after being stacked and unstacked.


dinesh
 

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If you add HD from Dish, you will need to run another line from a dish pointing to 61.5 or 148.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I'm starting to get confused with all the different terms. I understand the concept that stackers combine two cables to 1, and I understand that a destacker can take that 1 cable and then break it back into 2. But I'm unsure on where it can be used, and what (if any) other splitters need to be used...


First off, let me show you what my setup will be in my house if I simply put my multiswitch in, my oval dish, and the DiTivo.

http://homepage.mac.com/black107/currentsetup.jpg


As you can see, I have the Dish, Multiswitch, two lines coming from two outputs on the multiswitch, and then those two lines go directly to the DiTivo. As I've said before, I'd like to have a third line coming from the multiswitch to where DiTivo and an STB would be. However, it would be a lot of trouble to run a third line. Some of you have suggested stackers and I need to have someone be 100% sure that this setup illustrated below will let the DiTivo see both the 101 and the 119 birds.

http://homepage.mac.com/black107/desiredsetup.jpg


As you can see, I have connected two RG-6's up to 2 outputs on my multiswitch. I'll then connect the other ends of those two lines into a "stacker". The stacker will then output 1 line that contains 2 signals. In the room with the DiTivo, I'd then take a "Destacker" and break the one line back into 2. After that, I'd take the 2 lines and connect them to my DiTivo. Now, does the Destacker output 1 or 2 lines? If only 1, what kind of splitter do I use to make it 2. Will these "unstacked" and "split" lines going to the DiTivo be able to see both the 101 and the 119 birds?


I hope I made it clear for the experts on what I want, and maybe I expressed the setup other people have as well. The clock is ticking and I only have a few weeks to order this stuff, get it all connected, and then bring the behemoth Toshiba TV and cabinet in before I move into this new house.


Any URL's to where I can buy these products (preferably all at the same place) would be much appreciated.


-Black
 

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yup, that's what i had in mind.


however, i can't guarantee anything about whether it will work, as i've had no actual firsthand experience with the stackers. search this forum for more info. also search the direcTiVo forum, which is rife with talk about MS's and stackers with the second tuner now activated.


good luck.


dinesh
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Black
Some of you have suggested stackers and I need to have someone be 100% sure that this setup illustrated below will let the DiTivo see both the 101 and the 119 birds.
No, that won't work. You could, however, use a splitter and two destackers to allow the DirecTiVo to access 101 only.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Kenvin, could you go a little more in depth on where these splitters and destackers are placed? Maybe add onto my diagrams?
 

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The stackers combine the LHCP (left-hand circular polarization) and RHCP (right-hand circular polarization) signals in to a single stacked signal. The receiver, in a typical installaion, will request LHCP by sending 18 volts to the LNB, or RHCP by sending 13 volts to the LNB. The LNB can provide one or the other from each port, but never both at the same time. The stackers allow both to exist at the same time by upconverting one to a higher band at 1500 to 2000 MHz. The other remains at 950 to 1450 MHz.


The destacker will enable a matching downconverer when it see the related voltage from the receiver.


Simple passive splitters can now be used because the coax cable carries all the transponders at once. Multiswitches are no longer needed.


In a multi-dish application, things get a bit complicated. In the case of DirecTV, with 101 and 119, a dual stacked system could be used. One cable network would carry all of 101, and the other all of 119. At each receiver one destacker could be used on the 101 network, or two destackers and a 22 kHz switch for HDTV and other services that require 119.


In the diagram you drew, the stacker would stack only the 101 signals from the 5x8 switch and send then through one coax. At the other end this signal could be split with a two way splitter and then go throgh two destackers to the two tuners of the TiVo. This would provide both tuners of the TiVo access to 101 only.


The stackers/destackers should not be used on any coax lines that carry 22 kHz.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Kevin, do you think you could draw up a diagram of what you're describing? I want to see where I'd need stackers, destackers, splitters, etc. I have 2 Di Tivos, each currently with 2 lines going to each (the one I wish to have a third line run for an HD STB), and 4 stand alone DirecTv boxes. I want all 6 (7 if you count the HD STB) to be able to see both birds. The reason is, sure, right now all I can watch from an SD box on the second bird is Nasa and locals from who knows where, but down the road I know they're going to dump more...desirable channels onto the second and even third birds. Especially when more HD channels appear. All my boxes support the Elliptical dishes (they dont say DTV+ on them, but they have an option for 2 satellite signals, such as 101 and 119). I only have a 3x8 multiswitch right now that is powered. I haven't bought the 5x8 yet because I was trying to see how I could connect all the boxes (plus the potentially stacked line) so they all had the dual satellite signal.


Thanks,

Black
 

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 Here is a diagram of a dual stacked system. The diagram shows how the outputs of the two dual LNBs are stacked, split, and destacked. Three different destacking possibilities are illustrated. The first (shown twice) is for 101 only, the others support 101 & 119.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
None of those help me. My original question was: I need 2 signals over 1 line going to the receiver (that gets split back into 2 at the receiver end)
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Black
None of those help me. My original question was: I need 2 signals over 1 line going to the receiver (that gets split back into 2 at the receiver end)
And here's the bottom line answer: You CANNOT get there from here. You must run another RG-6 to accomplish what you're trying to do with any degree of dependability. sorry you don't seem to like the answer but that is the way it is.


Now you can all continue with your arguing about it. LOL
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Ok, fine. Looks like to get my DiTivo and an STB, I'll have to run another line (or 2 to be safe). Running 1 or 2 more lines would have 10 seperate connections. The 5x8 multiswitch I'm planning to buy, obviously wont have 10 outputs. What can I do to achieve 10 outputs on the multiswitch end (Do i even need a multiswitch) that can see both the 101 and the 119.


Thanks for all the help guys,

Black


Also, I know there's a million threads here about STB's, but does $550 for the Toshiba STB sound reasonable? Is that a good STB?
 

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Doesn't Spaun make a device that will handle this job in a simpler, cleaner manner? And what about the 110 bird, the tri-LNB setup that DirecTV is now reccomending for all HDTV installs? Don't go to all this trouble and forget that or you'll be back up on the roof in short order.


Dan
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Hmm, true, but is there such a thing as a 6 or 7x10 multiswitch? I certainly haven't seen one :D
 
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