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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is for all of you HiPix/AccessDTV/etc. users out there....


What do you use to backup or archive HD content? I know people are working on solutions for HTPC to D-VHS firewire dubbing, but what are you using in the meantime? These are the options I've thought of:
  • DDS (up to 20GB native)
  • Exabyte (up to 60GB native)
  • AIT (up to 50GB native)
  • DLT (up to 35GB? native)
  • Other High end data storage tape
  • Removable Hard Drive

I probably missed other obvious solutions, I'm just curious what if anything people are using in this area and how much it's worth to them.


- Mike
 

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I use the hard drive approach just cuz it's easy and relatively cheap.


I have seen HTPC to dig camcorder through firewire on this forum awhile back. Seems most other tape type backups are too expensive, both unit and tapes. Also, tape means you have to wait for a restore which for 8G per hour of HD will take some time.
 

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"Also, tape means you have to wait for a restore which for 8G per hour of HD will take some time.'


I don't believe this is true for playback from D-VHS tape.
 

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Hard drives are $1.33/GB and easy and eraseable and fast. That's what I use. (have a firewire external 5.25" enclosure, with a ide removeable tray in it. can use plug and play to shutdown firewire, turn off the power of enclosure swap drive, turn back on, all without restarting computer)
 

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at an online vendor price of 15.00 per tape, dds4 tape is 75 cents per gigabyte with dds3 tape being even less. occasionally you can also find them on ebay for less. playback does not require waiting as all you do is restore a few minutes and then start playback which will continue as the files are restored. it does require the initial expense of the drive which are not cheap.


hard drives certainly are faster and storage will certainly become cheaper as larger models are introduced but so likely will dds and other removable media.


count on a 1 hour show (unedited) taking up about 10 GB. your decision on which media to choose should take into account the volume which you wish to archive. DVHS actually has many advantages and with the relatively low cost of media may be or become the method of choice.
 

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Again, Cliff is correct - my broad statement doesn't fit for DVHS. Should have qualified it in my post as I did in my mind as I was addressing computer type backup tapes. Also, the statement "playback does not require waiting as all you do is restore a few minutes and then start playback which will continue as the files are restored" may not work for ADTV. I have tried to no avail. It has been posted on this forum that HiPix will allow you to do this. I have no idea re other HD cards.


I think a DVHS deck should be able to record OTA if it has a tuner. The JVC model JVC HM-DH30000 claims it can - so you would not necessarily need an HD card or computer. This deck lists at $2K - should be able to get it for ~1.5K or less.


I was looking into DVHS some months ago. At that time they were very expensive (>$1K) and there I didn't see any way to get things onto and off of tape from the computer. I think there is now a firewire solution to do this. The tapes are ~7-10 bucks for a 300 - I have no idea how much this tape will hold.


In HS mode (28.2 Mbps) a DF-480 will do up to 4 hours, STD Mode (14.1 Mbps) will do up to 8 hours, SD recording LS3 Mode (4.7 Mbps) will do up to 24 hours recording. The DF-480 cassette holds ~50G. I haven't seen these tapes, so I don't have any pricing info.
 

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You left out DVD-R.


2-3 discs for most movies, but it is cheap and more reliable than tape for the long term.


Joe
 

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I use a 4mm Dat dds4 internal drive. About 70% of the movies will fit on a DDs3 tape and you can get them for about $5-8. The other 30% you need DDs4 tape which run $12-18. I use ultra bac to compress movies to the tapes and it is a free download. There is new backup software out that I am trying that will alow me to record and play movies directly to and from the tape drive with only hardware compression. I would have to use more of the DDs4 tapes for backup so it will cost more. I start a backup to HD and wait about 1 min. before I start watching the movie. The new software I am trying is 1safe at http://www.1vision.com/.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by ramick
Also, the statement "playback does not require waiting as all you do is restore a few minutes and then start playback which will continue as the files are restored" may not work for ADTV. I have tried to no avail.


It has been posted on this forum that HiPix will allow you to do this.


I have no idea re other HD cards.

ramick,


Unless the new version of SW has changed it's file system behaviour, ADTV does not support streaming restores as you have found.

When I used to have an ADTV card, I was able to work around this problem but the solution was not pretty.

I ditched it for this reason (plus a whole bunch more).


The Hipix works perfectly with streaming restores from a DAT drive and soon we will find out if MYHD does.


I have been using a DDS-4 Dat drive since last summer for archiving Hipix recordings. As noted, sometimes you can get away with the cheaper DDS-3 tapes but for longer shows you need the DDS-4 tapes.


A bunch of us (including me) are experimenting with the MITS D-VHS paired with a Hipix for this purpose. It is still work in progress but it does work. The tools are still a bit 'clunky' to use.


Again,We shall see next week how well MYHD works with the Mits recorder.


Joe
 

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What about a DVD changer? What is the latency of the change?


I think we are really pushing here :)
 

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I have been using DVD-RAM for a long time just upgraded to the newest 4.7GIG per side type, I have been able to get one movie on a disk using both sides, and it was very tight!. The disks are reusable and faster then DVD-R. I have not played them back directly to the HiPix yet as this Drive is on another networked computer.


ALSO: you can get the disks for about 10$ if you buy in bulk, no named brand of course, also the disks state that they are using CPRM but i'm not using a CPRM enabled OS, so I do not know what the CPRM is really going to do about what I put on it.
 

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Some people speculated about spanning "HD" DVD's with multiple drives several months ago, but I never saw anything come of it.


I'm using Direct Tape Access software to back up my Hipix files on DDS-3 and DDS-4 tape. Since the program only works in Win9x, I dual boot my Hipix application with Win98SE and WinXP, using FAT 32 for both partitions. I use Win98SE for tape streaming and use WinXP for network streaming.


I have a firewire card in the HTPC, but I'm not rushing out to get a DVHS deck just yet. The price of DDS-3 tapes are reasonable enough that I'm not willing to pay for the added hardware costs. I also think that by preserving the Hipix files on DDS tape, it will be easier to transfer the files to future recordable disc drives, such as the blue laser drive (I hope).
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
stjr,


I was thinking about Direct Tape Access too. Seems like a good solution since you don't have to load the program back onto HDD. Do you know if there is a technical reason why this hasn't been ported to Win2k/XP?

[edit to add below]

For those of you not familiar with this utility, it gives your tape drive a regular drive letter. Terrible for small files, but should be great for streaming large files.


- Mike
 

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OnStream allows this - give tape drive a reg drive letter. My tape drive is "only" 30G and too slow to stream HD.
 

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I believe JoeQ can tell you all about direct tape access. I'm still sitting on the fence about the whole thing. I might just buy myself a DVHS deck now that I can transport from pc to DVHS.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Is it possible to strip out a 480p subchannel and save it in a smaller file that can be streamed on a slow device? Of course, this is assuming that these DTV cards are saving a whole channel stream and "stripping out" is actually needed.


- Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Here's another questions for DDS users. HP DDS3 drive has a native transfer rate of only 1.0MB/s. This is clearly not enough for HD streaming. The DDS4 drive does 3.0MB/s. This is enough, but does it go full speed when reading/writing DDS3 tapes?


JoeQ, stjr, what drives are you using? HP? Sony? I noticed that the native transfer on Sony DDS 4 is only 2.4MB/s and Seagate doesn't make DDS4.


[Edit]

Oops, Seagate makes one that has 2.75?MB/s native transfer (they specify "up to" 330MB/min)


- Mike
 

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The streaming results that you get depend on the combination of the transfer rate of the DDS drive along with the level of compression provided by the software or hardware. I'm using the SONY SDT-11000 DDS-4 drive, which is fast enough to stream Hipix HBO (Dish 5000) recorded files in real time, but not quite fast enough for OTA recorded files. Transfer rates are the same for DDS-3 and DDS-4 tapes.


If someone can stream OTA recorded Hipix files directly from DDS tape (without dropouts) using OnStream or Direct Tape Access, I would like to know their configuration.
 
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