AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 7 of 7 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
208 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, I have been a lurker here since Oct 2000 and this is my first post. Currently the search function is not available otherwise I would do a search on this first.


Could someone tell me what the bandwidth required for HDTV on a PC is? I was under the impression it was 19Mbps or just under 3MB per second, ~150MB per minute and ~9GB per hour.


However, elsewhere I was informed of the following and am uncertain of it's accuracy:

"Exactly, that's the bandwidth for the compressed signal...decompress a 1080i stream, and that's 1920 x 1080 x 24bpp x 30fps = ~180MB/sec, which is more than 33MHz/32bit PCI's 133MB/sec. I looked into those HDTV decoders that you mentioned a few months ago, and if you read the fine print, they will only display a 1080i signal while using the analog passthrough. They will do digital overlay if you bump the resolution down to 640p, but who wants to watch HDTV at that resolution?"


And another:

"At the present time the only way you can get a full HDTV signal is with a dish. On top of that they still have not even agreed on the final format. They are indeed broadcasting something they like to call HDTV but it is not what the final product is intended to be. Do a search on the web on HDTV. It is amazing the scam that is being put up on this one. As I said before , there wil never be true HDTV with content worth watching until there is a copy protection system that works. The final product will allow for the distribution of movie screen content to the theaters with the same system."


And finally, a third:

"Most people aren't even aware that all current HDTV tuners may be rendered obsolete! That's right, our friends in the entertainment industry are trying to force a copy-protection scheme that is INCOMPATIBLE with ALL existing HDTV decoders!


The dreck that CBS, et. al. are passing off as HDTV is hardly worthy of the name. Most of that stuff is broadcast at the lowest HDTV resolution, which is no better than regular NTSC. And even less is original HDTV content - it's just upconverted (that's what HBO does for 95% of its "HDTV" programming). What a waste of money.


I hate to say it but it's looking like HDTV is going to go the way of Betamax, Digital Audio Tape, Quadrophonic sound, the Elcaset, and all those other products destroyed by loose standards, entertainment industry paranoia, and too little-too late content. I don't know a single person even considering spending one cent on HDTV, and almost everyone I know is a techno-freak early adopter with deep pockets. Not a good omen...The goal of HDTV was to have a result that was the equivilent of 35mm film. It's going to be a long time before you can do that for $2000. I read the other day that there is one source of true HDTV broadcasting in existance and that is one station in Japan and it is not compatible with the American system. "


Please enlighten not only myself but the inaccuracies of the above statements! I believe a dish is not required for HDTV, as there is OTA broadcasts.


Thank you greatly for not only reading this far but also to dispel any myths and inaccuracies in the above.


Jeff Barthel


 

·
Registered
Joined
·
203 Posts
It's true that the HDTV has been very badly mismanaged. Unlike the very successful CD release, where hardware vendors and record companies worked hard to impress consumers, HDTV participants have just bickered amongst themselves and left the consumer feeling left out at best and a wanted criminal at worst.


I actually used to dream about getting HDTV gear, but I have resisted all the crap that has been offered to me:


Overly priced wide screen, low res (.80 pitch) HDTV's

Lack of HDTV VCRs or severly copy protected ones

Dismal to no cable TV support

Disfunctional transmission standard that only works outdoors

And everybody's favorite gripe: lack of programming


It's with great sadness that I have concluded that HDTV will fail. I believe that by the time they could straignten this mess out, direct internet based video casting will prevail. Then again, considering the wide spread incompatibilities of corporate web sites these days, they'll probably manage to screw that up as well.


I'm sorry to sound negative. There's always the chance that a real leader will emerge from the chaos and save HDTV. I can only hope...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,033 Posts
Everyone seems thrilled with HDTV recorded and played back by AccessDTV. Since the processing is self-contained on that PCI card, I don't think the speed of the PCI bus comes into play, except for recording, which I think is indeed slightly lossy-compressed by the AccessDTV card. I better let someone else jump in about this.


Although the other networks are shaky on HDTV, CBS is broadcasting (almost) all its primetime shows in spectacular 1920x1080i HDTV. Dish is too, or close to it. I strongly suspect DirecTV is down at around 1280x1080i; many here insist I'm wrong, but DirecTV does not have the bandwidth for 1920x1080i per channel the way it currently does HDTV. Also, people seem to agree that HBO-HD looks better on Dish than on DirecTV. Because DirecTV's number one priority is squeezing in more and more local channels at the sacrifice of everything else, I think the immediate future of network OTA HDTV is much brighter than satellite HDTV.


The MPAA is pushing copy protection stuff, and by paying off congressmen and threatening manufacturers, they might just get what they want. The copy protection stuff, if it comes to pass, will likely only impact DirecTV and Dish. I cannot see the networks implementing copy protection so that you cannot time shift Jay Leno. Probably even the movies the networks show would not suffer copy protection, since they are a bit old anyway. Anyway, no one really knows what is going to happen. My advice is either buy RIGHT NOW, while you can still get some enjoyment out of your HDTV equipment before the copy protection kills all the fun, or else stick with your current TV and wait ~5 years for the dust to settle. (Or you could go with a HD-ready TV from Mitsubishi, which promises that your set won't become obsolete from copy protection B.S.)


This whole MPAA thing is turning me into a quasi-pirate. I'm in a panic to get Dish 5000 + modulator + AccessDTV so that I can archive vast amounts of HDTV before I can no longer receive it at all! I wouldn't bother with recording HDTV right now if it weren't for the threat of the MPAA to make my $3100 HD-ready TV useless (or no better than a 480p DTV, anyway.)


-Abdul
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
133 Posts
Of course, Abdul, you assume that the stuff on CBS and HBO-HD is worth watching to begin with.


A crappy movie or a poorly written sitcom (not sitkom) is still bad... even though the picture is 'stunning' and you can see the pores in the actor's faces.


Data is data. Content is KING!


-Sitkom



------------------

"No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American consumer"

- Andrew Carnegie (rumored)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,033 Posts
Sitkom, I mostly agree - I personally do not watch a single show on any of the OTA networks (ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, WB, etc.), except PBS.


-Abdul
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
85 Posts
Jeff,


Most of the HDTV cards seem to bypass the bus whenever possible. Hipix for example, provides its own S/PDIF, and I'm not sure that its data ever touches the PCs PCI bus, unless it is recording.


"At the present time the only way you can get a full HDTV signal is with a dish".

You are correct. This was true until, I think, Nov 99. Since then, most broadcasters in the metro areas have been transmitting digitally. Of course, only a small portion of that is HD, but it is enough to get people like myself into this.


"Most people aren't even aware that all current HDTV tuners may be rendered obsolete!"

Many of us here are nervous about copy protection, but I don't think this is true. I think there is a risk that additional equipment may not be able to record HD. Certainly for OTA stuff, tuners will work in the future. For cable, and satellite, that is a different question.


"The dreck that CBS, et. al. are passing off as HDTV is hardly worthy of the name."

Most of the stuff that I see is 480i, but there is more & more HD all the time. It can be confusing, and there are so many gotchas, that sometimes it is hard to know what is being broadcast. For instance, I just found out that everything I've been watching from FOX, which broadcasts 480p, has been upconverted to 720p.


Generally I think that hdtv is starting to gain more & more acceptance. As producers make more HD content, broadcasters will transmit more, and people will buy more HD capable displays. I can see this happening, but its damn slow.


I hope this helps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
208 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
scottg, thanks for the informative reply and to addressing the questions raised. Thanks also to everyone who has added to this discussion and added to my data banks http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


I personally have yet to jump into the hdtv merry-go-round, yet I've spent considerable time reading, researching and studying trying to keep up to date on what is happening.


If I can spend $400-$500 on a pci card and watch hdtv on my pc monitor, I'm all for that until prices come down more on large screen hdtv sets.


My brother recently purchased a MITSU 65807 but has not yet purchased an hdtv box. He plans on doing so by the end of the year when prices drop a bit more.


Another consideration is the hushed conversations here and there of hd-dvd and whether or not this will be out any time in the near future. Supposedly George Lucas is going to release Star Wars on this format. But then again, speaking of his release dates is like speaking of more hdtv content on D*.


Ah well, these are other topics entirely. Here's to hoping that some time in the next year, ATI or Matrox will release a video card with built-in hdtv decoding.
 
1 - 7 of 7 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top