[sewerrat]

I know this has probably been covered, but a half hour with the search engine didn't yield me any conclusive results.


I have had an X1 for almost a year and enjoy it a lot. However, with the recent start of the NFL season, I have found myself less than happy with the HDTV pic. It is nice, but not NICE . . if you know what I mean. I can see the pixel structure at 2x screen width.

I now have a Z1 in the mail on the way to me. Will this greatly improve HDTV quality?? I'm not too worried about DVD since I drive my PJ with an HTPC, so I can do 1:1 pixel mapping on the Z1. I don't put any importance on 4:3 TV viewing.

Is the Z1 going to be a worthwhile upgrade over the X1??


Thanks

 

[Eyleron]

Is the pixel structure the only thing bothering you about the X1?

http://www.projectorcentral.com/sanyo_plv_z1.htm

They even compare to the X1. They do say that the Z1 is better for HDTV because it's 1/2 the vertical pixels so scaling of 1080 looks better. However, that benefit is probably negated if you're watching 720p broadcasts.


Regarding your problem of seeing the pixel structure, ProjectorCentral.com said:

"There is a subtle pixelation that you'd expect from LCD technology at this resolution. It is not as apparent as it is in standard SVGA, but it is present nevertheless. You can make it either invisible or quite apparent in two ways. First, the viewing distance relative to screen size will determine whether you can see it at all. A viewing distance of 2.0 times the screen width is about the distance at which it becomes a non-issue for most viewers. Beyond that, we found that the trick of slightly soft-focusing the image such that the pixel sharpness is ever-so-slightly reduced will substantially reduce or eliminate the pixelation without any noticeable compromise of the image."

 

[Eyleron]

The Z2 is better known for eliminating visible pixel structure.


Note that since the X1 is 800 x 600, when watching widescreen material you were only using 450 of the vertical pixels at most.


The Z1 will be 540 vertical pixels and the Z2 will be 720.

 

[timctx]

I am in the exact same dilema. I like the X1 but would really like the extra resolution. Think that I will save up and hope the Z2 prices come down with the Z3 on the market or maybe look for a special on the Infocus SP5000. The only real DLP option out there right now is the 6200 but some here on the forum have not seen a big improvement in PQ with the 6200 over the X1. Hope this helps.

 

[coatie]

And the HD picture is absolutley incredible.....I know that isn't what you are asking, but the Sony with the DVI input is incredible.

 

[sewerrat]

timctx


I think I'm in the same boat with you, hoping that within a year to a year and 1/2 the price of the Z2 will get near $1,000, and then I'll upgrade.

I guess since I will have both projectors I'll have to spend a day doing a mini-shootout and then sell the PJ I don't want.

I'm really just shooting for the best overall HDTV picture between the X1 and the Z1, and I'm hoping the Z1 is a noticeable improvement.

 

[SpeedyHTPC]

Even at 800x600 + Panamorph the HD image has scaled jaggies on the X1. So this tells me unless you are buying a true 720 pixel PJ you'll see it no matter what PJ youre using.

 

[sewerrat]

Quote:

Originally posted by SpeedyHTPC Even at 800x600 + Panamorph the HD image has scaled jaggies on the X1. So this tells me unless you are buying a true 720 pixel PJ you'll see it no matter what PJ youre using.

I agree, but will the jaggies be less on the Z1 then on the X1 is the root of my question.

 

[SpeedyHTPC]

Not enough pixel difference is the root of my answer.

 

[Jim McC]

I have the X1 and I run it in 16:9 mode with 16:9 screen, 106" diagonal. It is hooked up to Dish Network 811 HD receiver, and an OTA antenna for HD programming, including HD football games. The picture is GREAT, I don't understand what you're saying. If you're getting SDE at 2.0X screen width, you have some sort of equipment problem. Or are you talking about with DVD's? What HD source are you using? I never thought HDTV would look this good with a 480p projector.

 

[timctx]

My guess is that the Z1 scaler is less capable than the X1 so unless you are watching 1080i which the Z1 is designed for the difference will be minimal.


The biggest benefit my be increased brightness which is just as important if you do not have perfect light control.

 

[sewerrat]

Jim and Tim


I'm not talking about DVD at all. The X1 has been great with DVD and I'm confident, with the HTPC, the Z1 will be great with DVD. I am only focusing on HDTV.


I am sending 1080i to my X1 through the Pioneer 3510HD Time Warner box. I'm confident it is not an equipment problem. Like I said, the picture in nice, but not NICE. With the X1 I see the pixel structure. By that I mean I can see the individual blocks that make up the HD picture. HD looks blocky. Will the Z1 do a much better job with HD where I won't see the blocks.

 

[SpeedyHTPC]

I see also what sewerrat is talking about..especially those field lines in a HDTV football game, for example..white uniforms..


My answer is saying that even using a full panel at 800x600, exceeding the Z1's native output, I still get this blocky jaggies on esp white lines. Thus my answer is no.

 

[timctx]

LCD has more pixelation for a given resolution than DLP. The Z1 has slightly higher resolution than the X1. The apparent pixelation on both machines should be very similar. One "cure" is to slightly de-focus the projector which will minimize screen door at the expense of sharpness.


I went out last night and checked a local store with both a special on the Sony HS-3. The pixelation was almost unbearable compared to my X1. The HS-20 had almost no pixelation.


Since neither projector can reproduce either 1080i or 720p material the projector has to scale what it receives to match native resolution. The X1 has a very good built in scaler while the Z1's resolution lets it scale 1080i very cleanly.

 

[colinsm]

Sewerrat,

I'm not trying to pick on you but, don't you think you should have asked this before you ordered the Z1?

 

[JimmyFace]

For me with the X1 I'm not so concerned with pixelation, although I do see it on zoomed out shots for football, but I find it hard to tone down the whites on zoomed out shots and also recently watching the Fox HD baseball I could notice a green hue around the edges of the catcher when it showed the camera behind the pitcher, I'm not sure if this is reflective of the Fox HD quality or not because I don't remember seeing this green hue during the Sportsnet BlueJays or WGN Cubs games.

 

[sewerrat]

Quote:

Originally posted by colinsm Sewerrat, I'm not trying to pick on you but, don't you think you should have asked this before you ordered the Z1?

No problem. I got the Z1 at such a good price that I feel comfortable in the ability to recoup my investment should I choose to sell it.

I won an ebay auction for a like new Z1 for $405(without bulb) and ordered a new bulb for $300. So basically a brand new Z1 with full bulb life left for $705. I feel like I could sell it for $705 (which I think I am going to do) without much effort.

 

[Mntneer]

Quote:

Originally posted by sewerrat No problem. I got the Z1 at such a good price that I feel comfortable in the ability to recoup my investment should I choose to sell it. I won an ebay auction for a like new Z1 for $405(without bulb) and ordered a new bulb for $300. So basically a brand new Z1 with full bulb life left for $705. I feel like I could sell it for $705 (which I think I am going to do) without much effort.

Brand new Z1 are only going for a little more than that on some sites.


But I still understand the desire to go ahead and pull the trigger on one without a bulb for that little.

 

[Francois Caron]

Don't worry too much about what HDTV will look like on the Z1. I'm driving my Z1 with the computer set to 1280x720, and at 2x distance I see no visible pixel structure and the WMVHD material still looks very much like HD even if it isn't physically quite that.


The only other weakness are the blacks. In Power Save mode, it's not BLACK black, but it's not grey either like those Sony widescreen projectors from a few years back. But since you'll be watching football (all lit up), that shouldn't be a problem.