[bennynihon]

I'm confused why I have to struggle with PowerStrip just to get HDTV resolution output from my Radeon video card to my HDTV. The fact is, I can watch HDTV from my myHD card without having to tweak custom timings. I can watch 1080i/720p programs from my cable box without having to tweak custom timings. It seems absurd to me that I'd have to do that to get the same resolutions from my video card.


While I don't discount the idea that no 2 HDTVs have exactly the same timing, the fact remains that all HDTVs have to work with the HDTV STBs out there, as these STB manufacturers can't be bothered by having to support various timings. If only the Radeon had resolutions with the same timings as the myHD card or my cable STB than I wouldn't have to be struggling to get 1080i on my HDTV.

 

[tomes]

I've been thinking the exact same thing. You would think they could incorporate standard resolutions that are the same as stb manufacturers use...

 

[Joseph S]

Quote:

I've been thinking the exact same thing. You would think they could incorporate standard resolutions that are the same as stb manufacturers use...

It's a Windows/Driver issue for me over and over again. I've had nothing but instant successes with custom resolutions under OS X 10.3 and ATI Drivers. Never once has 1280x720 prevented the display from working in HDCP mode nor have I had scrolling desktop issues. Completely different story with the same display and also a Tosh 50H81 using 98, 2K, XP and countless ATI cards/drivers. It either works in Windows or it doesn't. Whether it works once also has no bearing on whether it will continue to work or will work with the latest ATI update/PS beta update. There's also none of the hassle with the ATI driver removal issues. Next PC vid card will likely be nVidia or Matrox, but you never know.

 

[bennynihon]

Perhaps I should have actually put a question in my post.


Does anyone know why it's so difficult to get simple HDTV resolutions out of my Radeon video card in Windows?


What's the best video card for hassle-free HDTV output? Without use of powerstrip?


Even when I select HDTV standard 1080i in Powerstrip the image is still messed up on my TV. Clearly something is wrong with powerstrip, the video card drivers, or the ATI card itself. I have no such problems having myHD output 1080i out of the box without having to mess with silly custom timings, so why can't ATI operate similarly?

 

[mnn1265]

Not to sound like a smart-ass but try one of the new NVidia cards - they now have quite nice support of custom resolutions and overscan compensation right out of the box. If you already have an ATI I suppose that won't help...

 

[bennynihon]

That's not being a smart ass. If ATI is just flawed than I'm more than open to the idea of switching to an NVidia card. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[bennynihon]

I guess I should mention that my HDTV has a standard DB9 VGA input, so I do not use the component dongle. As it is, the Radeon 9000 which I use doesn't even support the component dongle.


Unfortunately it seems as if ATI has limited support for HDTV resolutions for the models that do not support the component dongle. Hopefully I am wrong. What are other people doing to get good HDTV output from the standard VGA ouput (not component dongle)?


thanks.

 

[Vern Dias]

You can't get HDTV 1080I resolutions when you use the V and H sync signals!


HDTV 1080I requires SonG/Y, not sync on the V and H sync lines. ATI can't do this without the DVI to component dongle. NVidia can. It's as simple as that.


Vern

 

[bennynihon]

Vern,


When you say ATI cannot do this, are you suggesting this is the case even with the aid of PowerStrip? As I've mentioned I am capable of output 1080i over VGA using myHD. Also, I was able to get 1080i output previously using Powerstrip and some past version of the ATI drivers. It's just that it's been so long and I recently made some attempts again and am frustrated that ATI hasn't updated the drivers to make them more extensive. You are suggesting that NVidia also directly supports 1080i output over VGA?


thanks.

 

[hraner]

Try ATI's latest Catalyst 4.10 driver, they added some HDTV support, I uninstalled PowerStrip(I hate the 5 seconds delay very much) right away. If you are using VGA, at lease you can resize/position your image so you can reduce/eliminate overscan. They also have two options: Force 720P and Force 1080i(But I don't need to check either of these, I'm using 1280x720 resolution on Radeon 9200).

 

[bennynihon]

hraner,


How do you get 1280x720p? When I updated the drivers, that resolution is not selectable for me. I use a Radeon 9000 and my HDTV is a Sampo 34" CRT. Perhaps the monitor you use makes it clear to the ATI drivers that 1280x720 is supported.

 

[Vern Dias]

Quote:

When you say ATI cannot do this, are you suggesting this is the case even with the aid of PowerStrip?

Yes. Thiat is what I am saying. You will need the DVI to component dongle to reroute the sync onto the green.


You can get 1080I, but it's computer 1080I, not HDTV 1080I. Same for 720P. Thats why people have all sorts of overscan problems trying to output from an HTPC to an HDTV. The porch timings are very different between to two flavors.


In fact, on my Qualia, it you send it 1080I with sync on VH it says it is receiving 540P.


Once more:


To meet the HDTV 720P and 1080I standards, sync must be carried on the green signal. It cannot be on the vertical and horizontal sync lines.


There is a "Sync on Green" checkbox in Powerstrip, but I think it only applies to Matrox video cards. The ATI DVI to component dongle reroutes the sync onto the green.


I have not tested VGA HDTV resolutions over VGA on the NVidia.


Vern

 

[Karyk]

Quote:

Originally posted by bennynihon hraner, How do you get 1280x720p? When I updated the drivers, that resolution is not selectable for me. I use a Radeon 9000 and my HDTV is a Sampo 34" CRT. Perhaps the monitor you use makes it clear to the ATI drivers that 1280x720 is supported.

I think the overall problem is that people have not been connecting HDTVs to PCs for very long, and computer monitor frequencies are different than TV frequencies.


From your statement above, however, I wonder if you're using PS properly. You'd select the resolution from within PS. They have predefined resolutions, none of which will probably be perfect without some tinkering, but you select those first, find the best ones, and then tinker.

 

[bennynihon]

Thanks Vern. That was very well described. I think I'll look into a new video card.

 

[markdl]

Quote:

Originally posted by Vern Dias Yes. Thiat is what I am saying. You will need the DVI to component dongle to reroute the sync onto the green. You can get 1080I, but it's computer 1080I, not HDTV 1080I. Same for 720P. Thats why people have all sorts of overscan problems trying to output from an HTPC to an HDTV. The porch timings are very different between to two flavors. Once more: To meet the HDTV 720P and 1080I standards, sync must be carried on the green signal. It cannot be on the vertical and horizontal sync lines. Vern

Vern,


I hope that you'll excuse the newbieness of this question from someone who's been around for awhile now, but is this what my VGA to component transcoder is doing?

 

[Vern Dias]

Mark, I have no direct experience with that device, but I believe so.


Karyk, not only are some frequencies different, but so are the sync delivery mechanisms. I also suspect some display devices are more picky than others as far as implementing standards. The frequencies on 1080I and 720P, however are the same.


Vern

 

[bennynihon]

I'm going to look into whether it's true that my HDTV monitor expects a Composite Sync on Green signal and see if I can just build a simple circuit to create the composite sync from the Hsync and Vsync. I once built a similar circuit to allow my Fixed Frequency Sun Monitor to be used with my Windows box, so it shouldn't be too difficult. Thanks again Vern.

 

[bennynihon]

Now that I think about it, my monitor does support 1024x768 directly from the video card, so I believe it certainly supports VGA with hsync and vsync. Is it possible though that when it sees resolutions such as 1080i or 720p that it would expect composite sync?

 

[debennett2]

Quote:

I'm going to look into whether it's true that my HDTV monitor expects a Composite Sync on Green signal and see if I can just build a simple circuit to create the composite sync from the Hsync and Vsync.

Well...that's basically what a transcoder does....aside from converting the color matrix (RG and B) to the right levels for either 1080i or 480p standards.

 

[bennynihon]

I'm starting to get even more confused now. The more I think about it, my HDTV (the Sampo SME-34WHD5) has a 9-pin VGA input which is RGBHV. It must be expecting separate Hsync and Vsync signals. The YPbPr input would of course need sync on Y. But because my HDTV has a dedicated VGA input that accepts RGBHV, I should need a transcoder to get the sync on green.


After all, myHD which outputs standard RGBHV (w/ hsync and vsync) works flawlessly going into the VGA input of my Sampo HDTV. It's beyond me why ATI makes it so difficult.


Even when I tried using PowerStrip I still was not able to get an image with the various 1080i settings (it wasn't even as if I just needed to tweak the front/back porch to fit the display). Maybe I need to play around more with Powerstrip, but does anyone have any ideas on getting the ATI Radeon to output HDTV resolutions over VGA? Thanks.