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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So,


I'm assuming progressive scan DVD has the same parameters as HDTV 1080I as far as geometry goes, and the same scan rate.


What is the cheapest progressive DVD player I can buy to set up my projector for HDTV??? Or is there a better way?


Bob Smith
 

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Progressive scan DVD players output 480p. The cheapest is the pioneer-434 I think, but all reviews indicate that you get what you pay for. If you want a progressive DVD player, get a good one. But you should probably take this question over to the DVD forum since it really doesn't have much to do with HDTV. (DVDs don't do HDTV.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
No, but I'm interested in a test signal for HDTV reception since they don't run "test patterns" as in the early days of TV. I am using a Faroudja quadrupler for upconverting my DVD or any other NTSC signals. What I need is a way to display the "video essentials" test patterns at the native scan rates of HDTV, which 480P does. I don't need another DVD player, I need a source of HDTV test patterns. Since I don't care about the quality of the player (it won't affect geometry), I don't want to buy a "quality" progressive player.


Bob Smith
 

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Sounds like Mr Smith wants an external source for calibrating his HD input and is thinking a progressive DVD will do. I might suggest he checkout the HTPC forum since I believe there is a way for a (or some) HTPC to output 540p to a HD (VGA) input. And with the appropriate DVD source the calibration can therefore be performed.



[This message has been edited by bdenman (edited 05-02-2001).]
 

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Progressive DVD at 480p and HDTV at 1080i do not have the same scan rates, and will not be interchangeable for monitor set up. In a perfect world, you would have a test pattern generator that could produce both formats along with various grid, color bars, pluge and geometry patterns to evaluate, calibrate & set up displays.


Extron makes such an animal, but it's not cheap. List price is $2995.


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You could try taking the composite (or S-Video) output of your DVD player, feeding it to a VCR (or S-VHS VCR) then take the ch 3 or 4 modulated output from the VCR and feed it to the antenna input of a HD STB. Use the HD STB to upconvert to 1080i....


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Geof
 

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The *************** forum thread on the subject of grids for calibration and has a link for some source grids that can written as CDRW VCDs and possibly used.

http://www.***************.com/cgi-b...&f=10&t=002783


addendum: these were for 480p input but other threads have said to use htpc dvd output at 540p for the same purpose. I have not tried it to verify it works.



[This message has been edited by bdenman (edited 05-02-2001).]
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Ken H:
Progressive DVD at 480p and HDTV at 1080i do not have the same scan rates, and will not be interchangeable for monitor set up.
480p: 31.5khz horizontal scan rate

1080i: 33.75khz horizontal scan rate


My Pioneer Elite treats these as two different signals - the TV has separate memories and adjustments (convergence, horiz size, vert size, etc.) for what it calls "31K" and "33K". So any adjustments made with a 480p source would not affect 1080i, confirming what Ken H. wrote.


-Jonathan
 

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The trick of feeding it into your composite input on the VCR and sending it out through RF and into your HD receiver works great. That's what I did, using Video Essentials as the source. Just set the HD receiver to up-convert the analog signal to 1080i.


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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks all-You're right 2 times 480 is 960, not 1080, so it doesn't follow!Using the channel 3 output of my DVD player into the DTC-100 is the easiest thing to do. Don't really care about the quality of the video, just want to get the anamorphic test screen up on the display, and this is the easiest way to get there.


Bob
 

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My HDTV has a built-in tuner, so my only STB is a cable converter. I've seen earlier suggestions for using a VCR to generate DVD-based test patterns (composite input from DVD to VCR) for HDTV sections. No doubt it's a duh to those using this technique, but these threads seem to get murky at times. So please put me back on track if I go off here.


Any standard VCR must be putting out an analog 480i NTSC signal, say on channel 3. The suggestion is to feed this signal into the RF input of a HDTV-oriented STB, say a RCA DTC100. Naturally, the input you use, regardless of the STB model, must tune a standard analog 480i NTSC signal. With a DTC100, I believe, this 480i can be upgraded to a 540p signal (480i converted to 1/60-second/frame 540p, boosted to ~800+ lines of horizontal resolution). This 540p signal (or variations) can then be connected to the component video inputs of an HDTV set to view a DVD's NTSC-type patterns. A set's component-in jacks are almost direct connections to the CRTs (or other display device).


So, at no point does "1080i," which is a standard ATSC HDTV signal, enter into the picture. That's taking into account a DTC100's enhanced 540p output, from the display device's electrical viewpoint only, is roughly analogous to a 1080i signal. A true digitally encoded 1080i ATSC, of course, has considerably more fidelity than a standard NTSC signal, and its theoretical 1920 horizontal resolution consists of distinct samples instead of digitally doubled or tripled samples.


With this technique, I understand, the general graphic patterns on a test DVD are accessible. But since you're not using most of the HDTV-processing circuits of an HDTV set or STB, you're using NTSC-type test patterns to primarily check the display circuits of a set. -- John


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[This message has been edited by John Mason (edited 05-16-2001).]
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
What's the deal with the composite input to the VCR? Why not just take the channel 3 modulator out of the DVD player and send it into the DTC-100? I don't see any advantage of using the composite input of the VCR.


Bob Smith
 

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Bob,

Most quality DVD players don't have a RF modulator output. That's why the VCR was recommended...


Derek


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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
That makes sense. Since I have about 6 DVD players I forgot that some of them don't have RF outputs. I was always grossed out about thinking of someone using the modulator output of a DVD player, kind of like someone playing CDs on a Ghetto blaster.


Bob
 

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John,


Yup, you've got it.


To do a 1080i (or whatever) display setup, you need a test source with the same display parameters (image size, horizontal & vertical scan rates, etc.) to do it right.


Aside from my original idea, Wendell's suggestion would probably be the easiest and least expensive.


Those who have the Panasonic HDTV recording system/Dish 5000 can tape the occasional test material that shows up on HBO. But that's really about it.


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I have had several DVD players and not a single one has had an RF output. Which models have this "feature"?


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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Let me go home and take inventory. I've never used a channel 3 modulator output, but I'm sure I've seen one on a DVD player.
 
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