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Ok,


Call me stupid. I just purchased my first HDTV, a Hitachi 57XWX20B. This model has the ATSC and NTSC tuners, as we all know. Now I bought this model under this theory for the future of HDTV. Every television being made in 5 or so years from now will have an ATSC tuner in it, correct? We will not need STB's for these new models.


Will the cable companies and satellite companies still force us to use their equipment, or will I still be using my ATSC tuner for OTA only even then? Thinking that I will not have to use "their" equipment, I went ahead and bought the XWX, as the tuner is supposed to be software upgradeable, it only cost me $590 more than the SWX, and...I hear the new SWX models this summer are going to have the ATSC tuner in them as well. All you smart people think this over and give me some discussion on my curious thoughts.



SF
 

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You have to use "their" equipment because of the authorization card to decode the signal (satellite anyway). An OTA tuner cannot and will never be able to do that. Some HDTV's *do* have a DirecTv receiver built in to them, but it's still a special tuner that is needed to decode the satellite stream.


I believe that by end of year there will be HDTV's with built in cable HD tuners as well.
 

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Just FYI, almost 2 years ago Sony had a 34" 16x9 XBR television that had a built-in OTA HDTV and DirecTV tuner. It retailed for $4,000. The following year, the tuners were removed, DVI input was added, and Memory Stick was also added, and it retailed (I think) for $2,500.
 

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Looking into the future, I see a war between dvi and firewire. Also, one must ask themselves if they will be using satellite, cable, or OTA. What bout next year?


Looking to the future, I'd suggest getting an external turner, so that you could easily change the tuner to a new type when a newer model comes out, or so you could change between different technologies if you move.


The Samsung OTA tuner SIR-T165 is supposed to have a DVI output (for an all digital signal to the hdtv), as well as firewire so you can use a DVHS box. Do current hdtv's with integrated tuners have firewire? What if there's a new port that comes out next year?


This just sounds like the age old question on computers: is having an AGP graphics card better than an integrated video chipset on the motherboard? afterall, most new computers have integrated videochipsets(its cheaper for developers, and less confusing for consumers, but for the future, there are many reasons to leave these seperate.) This same analogy applies to hdtv tuners, at least I think so.
 

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I doubt cable will ever really roll out a complete line up using 8vsb.


Maybe some cash strapped mom and pops (if there are still any left) might moulate locals onto 8vsb, but I think QAM or some later day compression scheme will be used to deliver ATSC via cable.
 

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Shopping for an HDTV today, I was looking to the present. My needs are OTA ATSC, and being able to record ATSC for timeshifting. Of the high quality direct-view sets (Sony, Toshiba, Panasonic), I think there is only 1 with built-in ATSC tuner (Sony 34XBR2). However, I couldn't find the XBR2 in retail stores (only on Internet), so I assume it is an older model. The XBR2 had Firewire connector so it could be recorded to DVHS. My other choice was the current model, 34XBR800 which doesn't have a built-in tuner. Difference in price is about $600. For $500, I can buy the SIRT 165 OTA tuner which has Firewire connectors. So basically, it was a push, except I'd have to find extra rack space for an outboard tuner. Then I discovered the XBR2's Firewire connector is input only, so that was ruled out and I put in my order for the SBR800. Now I'm debating whether to go with the SIRT165 and JVC DVHS recorder, or wait for the Dish HD PVR which also has an OTA tuner. However, both the SIRT165 and Dish HD PVR only have 1 OTA tuner, which means I won't be able to record one OTA show while watching another. If I wait for the Dish PVR, I'll be forced to watch analog cable signal in the meantime. Anybody happen to know if the XBR800 even has an OTA NTSC tuner built-in? Sony's web spec sheet doesn't specify.


Btw, what is 8vsb? Same as ATSC? I was searching on that keyword when this thread popped up.
 

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As I understand it 8vsb is the "carrier" of ATSC programing. In other words ATSC are the standards of the content as in 1080i, 720p, etc. and 8vsb is how it is sent out over the air.


ATSC can be sent by a QAM type modulation which lowers bandwidth required. Dishnetwork is doing this with Discovery HD, and some cable companies may be using a simialr set up.


If I have misspoke here someone please correct me.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by iodsnips
Looking into the future, I see a war between dvi and firewire.
DVI and FireWire really have different functions; there is no real war between the two. And in the future, I doubt much of anyone will be using the tuner in or feeding his TV to feed a recording device as well. Just as in today's PVRs and VCRs, the tuner will be built into the recorder.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by MDRiggs
Just as in today's PVRs and VCRs, the tuner will be built into the recorder.
One can only hope this happens soon. Neither DVHS has tuners built in, and it's a rare HDTV that has a tuner built-in. If they'd also include tuners in the sets, we would be able to watch and record simultaneously.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by soonerfann
... Every television being made in 5 or so years from now will have an ATSC tuner in it, correct? We will not need STB's for these new models.
Hard to tell. If the FCC tuner mandate is challenged in the courts, this may not happen. It's also possible that TVs could be sold without any built in tuner, which would get around the NTSC/ATSC tuner mandate.


If tuners are included, I'm guessing by then most of them will have chipsets that will tune NTSC/8VSB/QAM, making them OTA & Cable-Ready for both analog & digital TV.


If your current TV doesn't have a built in QAM tuner, it's very likely you'll need a STB for digital cable service. Most cable companies have decided to use QAM instead of 8VSB, since it's more efficient.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by HDTimeShifter
One can only hope this happens soon. Neither DVHS has tuners built in, and it's a rare HDTV that has a tuner built-in. If they'd also include tuners in the sets, we would be able to watch and record simultaneously.
I think D-VHS will pretty much vanish from the market within a few years. (It's barely there now.) The future of home video recording is PVR. By the end of the decade, almost every TV made will have a built-in ATSC tuner.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by arxaw
If the FCC tuner mandate is challenged in the courts, this may not happen. It's also possible that TVs could be sold without any built in tuner, which would get around the NTSC/ATSC tuner mandate.
If there were going to be a challenge (expensive and rather pointless), it almost certainly would have happened by now. The TV manufacturers don't fundamentally object to building the tuners in -- they all know that's where the market eventually will go -- they just would have preferred more time.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by HDTimeShifter
... Neither DVHS has tuners built in, and it's a rare HDTV that has a tuner built-in.
This will change, unless the mandate is successfully challenged.


By 2007, any device that has a built in tuner will be required to have digital OTA tuner. That could mean VCRs with digital tuners or VCRs with no tuner at all, which would not be very popular.
 

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The following article from TWICE is talking about PODS which will allow HDTV makers to include a tuner that will work with all cable systems, where the local cable company will give you an access card like the sat receivers use now.


"The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) has pushed back to July 2006, a deadline to stop the distribution of digital cable TV receiving equipment with integrated conditional access security systems.


The deadline was originally meant to spur competition in the development of digital cable equipment that would be based on a unified standard, enabling sales of cable TV converter boxes at retail stores across the country. By separating out the conditional access security system, consumers would be able to purchase a set-top box anywhere in the country with the assurance it would operate on their cable system."


Complete article here: http://www.twice.com/index.asp?layou...y=breakingNews
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by se-riously
Just FYI, almost 2 years ago Sony had a 34" 16x9 XBR television that had a built-in OTA HDTV and DirecTV tuner. It retailed for $4,000. The following year, the tuners were removed, DVI input was added, and Memory Stick was also added, and it retailed (I think) for $2,500.
Just for the record, the Sony 34" 16x9 XBR (KD-34XBR2 - $4,000) does not include a DirecTV tuner. However, it does have a built in OTA HDTV tuner. I know since I have one.


Perhaps this member was thinking of the RCA HDTV (a 38" widescreen model I believe) that did have a DirecTV tuner built in.


Don
 
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