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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I never would have thought that building a couple of subwoofer risers could have such a dramatic effect. I'm pretty stunned actually.


I had put off making a couple of these because a lot of my friends were saying that because my Subs rested on basement concrete with thick carpet over top I probably wouldn't notice much of a difference.

Then I began reading about vertical modes and decided to try it anyway.


Heres what I had before,




As it was I thought it sounded great! I had a really good thump from the subs in this config. Great tactile feel.


Then I built my risers and I also raised the center to match tweeter height with my mains.


Now it looks like this:




What a difference! I should have done this long ago.


At first, I thought something was really wrong. I lost that tactile thud I was used too. Almost as if I lost the LFE altogether.


But then, I watched a few Blurays that I had seen before on the old config and it really became clear, It was my old setup that was hosed.

I heard low Hz notes and detail in the LFE I had never heard before.

The LFE seemed to emanate from my chest instead of my walls....lol


Just amazing what 20 bucks and an hour of labour did to my HT. I'm still scratching my head over the complete change in sound (for the better) ..



For all those who have concrete under their subs I suggest you try it if you haven't.

Its not about decoupling, but rather addressing those vertical modes.



Test,
 

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test4echo101 - It is my understanding that the best way to deal with vertical room modes is to place a sub above the center line of the room, ala Geddes.


Can you link me to some of your reading so I might broaden my understanding? Thank you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by John_AG /forum/post/20732606


Thanks for sharing that ... how do I build your risers for 20 bucks?

Hey John,


All I did was use some MDF I had lying around for the platforms.

I used 2x4's as support under the MDF.

I went out and bought cell-less foam and layered it about 5 inches deep under the platform. Then I placed regular foam (from a chair) to fill the rest of the space under the platform.

I attached inch thick rubber squares to the 2x4's bottom to act as feet. (I don't think I really needed it, as my concrete floor is plenty for decoupling)


Its pretty much about raising the sub in my situation, not decoupling.


I could have probably just placed 6"-10" legs on the sub and got the same results.


It works. Thats all i can say.


Test,
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by tesseract67 /forum/post/20732614


test4echo101 - It is my understanding that the best way to deal with vertical room modes is to place a sub above the center line of the room, ala Geddes.


Can you link me to some of your reading so I might broaden my understanding? Thank you.

tesseract67,


Yea, your right. If I had made the riser about 2 feet high ( With an 8 foot ceiling) I may have got even better results but the WAF factor plays a part here for me....lol


If you google DIY Subwoofer risers it will take you to a link that provides all the info about vertical modes and the fact this works.....even on concrete.

Look for Daddy.



Test,
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by fxspec06 /forum/post/20733101


I see a lot of setups that have killer speakers but don't look very nice.


Your setup looks very nice. Kudos.

Thanks fxspec06,


Its a little messy and the wife just can't help but put crap on top of my speakers...no matter how many times i take them off!


I just tell her the stuff must have vibrated off....lol


My speakers are pretty old, Paradigm 7SE MK 3's and a CC-350 (with a titanium tweet instead of textile.) Its doesn't match. I'd rather have a CC-300 but those are hard to find round here so....I deal wit it. Not as bad as you'd think.


The subs are just matching klipsch Sub-12's. But they actually do wonders in this new config.


I'm thinking about adding legs and raising them even more to experiment.


It makes sense, there is sooo much importance placed on horizontal sub placement in a room but not so much in the vertical. I would say they are both just as important.


One interesting thing, The center that I raised does NOT seem to like that riser that i built for it.

I noticed it now sounds hollowish and boxy. Not sure if its because of the space below it or not.

Especially with male voices. Not sure how I'm going to deal with that.

I like the center raised, but not at the expense of dialog quality.


Test,
 

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lol, my wife put her netbook on my Monitor Audio RSw12 sub. Didn't stay there long...
 

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My gosh, i just came to this forum to start a thread about this EXACT same thing. I have 2 HSU ULS-15s for about a year now and i just added the Auralex sub dudes on Saturday and here was my impressions




i was in shock at the difference made. All the mids and highs cleared up also and now the bass is tighter and punchier.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimwyn /forum/post/20738800


My gosh, i just came to this forum to start a thread about this EXACT same thing. I have 2 HSU ULS-15s for about a year now and i just added the Auralex sub dudes on Saturday and here was my impressions




i was in shock at the difference made. All the mids and highs cleared up also and now the bass is tighter and punchier.

Aside from removing some mechanical vibration, I've never heard/read testimony as to Sub-dudes having any such value as you state here. In fact, any "raised platform" additions have the same, ambiguous reviews regarding their value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by test4echo101 /forum/post/20732056

Hearing is believing....WOW!

A lot of times, "Anticipating is believing"
. Don't get me wrong, and I am not trying to rain on your parade. However, for the sake of every Tom, Dick and Harry that might read your thread, they should research the subject a bit more. What you did here, usually won't lead to an audible sound difference. At least, not from everything I've read and experienced. I wonder if you guys are finding that you had some "ear level" room acoustics...and/or that your subs are set well above 80hz, the general point at which sound becomes non-directional. IOWreal vs perceived differences (DBT).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by test4echo101 /forum/post/20732056


I never would have thought that building a couple of subwoofer risers could have such a dramatic effect. I'm pretty stunned actually.

So am I. What are your subs and how high is your ceiling?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by caper_1 /forum/post/20738638


lol, my wife put her netbook on my Monitor Audio RSw12 sub. Didn't stay there long...

+1, yup they just can't help themselves. I tell my wife that's sacred ground but she persists anyway......When something falls off and breaks I think, "Thank the Lord its gone!".


Then she comes home from somewhere and says, "Honey you'll never guess what I found! It will look great downstairs! (Meaning somewhere on my speakers)....lol

I love her anyways.



I will gladly put up with trinkets if it means "Upgrades" in the future.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbx123 /forum/post/20738877


Aside from removing some mechanical vibration, I've never heard/read testimony as to Sub-dudes having any such value as you state here. In fact, any "raised platform" additions have the same, ambiguous reviews regarding their value.

I would agree, the subdudes don't raise the subs high enough to address vertical axial modes.


However,

I'm sure you've heard of the benefits of raising a sub off ANY floor to compensate for vertical axial modes?


Of course, you probably ARE aware of the importance for the horizontal placement of a subwoofer right?

Its one of the first pieces of advice everyone gives when it comes to subwoofer placement.

Why not vertical?


See this quote from Big Daddy who I think is a very respected member of our community.


" Personally, I think decoupling from the floor is over-rated. Raising the subwoofer and dealing with vertical axial mode is far more important."


Read a bit of his technical posts and you'll see raising a sub off the floor is a good thing.


As for ambiguous reviews I don't know what to say, except look harder. There are very smart people who have placed the vertical axial position as just as important as the horizontal axial position.


I admit, a few inches may not yield many benefits, but 6 inches to 2 feet definitely does make an audible difference for the better.


As I said, I have thick carpet over concrete. Mechanical vibrations have never been an issue for me.

When I built then tested my subs on risers the change was NOT a placebo effect. The change in LFE was dramatic. It was a "holy cow, never heard that before moment"

Granted, I don't have REW waterfalls to prove it, but I DO know the characteristics of my room and my old setup from hearing alone. The difference was not slight. It was a shocking difference.


Doesn't cost anything really to check this for yourself. Put your subs UP on a platform for a while. report back.


Test,
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by test4echo101 /forum/post/20739227


I would agree, the subdudes don't raise the subs high enough to address vertical axial modes.


However,

I'm sure you've heard of the benefits of raising a sub off ANY floor to compensate for vertical axial modes?

No, I won't front on you...I have not heard and am not familiar with that term.

Quote:
Originally Posted by test4echo101 /forum/post/20739227


Of course, you probably ARE aware of the importance for the horizontal placement of a subwoofer right?

Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by test4echo101 /forum/post/20739227


See this quote from Big Daddy who I think is a very respected member of our community.

" Personally, I think decoupling from the floor is over-rated. Raising the subwoofer and dealing with vertical axial mode is far more important."

You may have misquoted it..or maybe I just don't understand it, but literal translation would mean (to me): He just contradicted himself. If de-coupling off the floor is overrated...", Doesn't this mean, "lifting off the floor" is overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by test4echo101 /forum/post/20739227


As for ambiguous reviews I don't know what to say, except look harder. There are very smart people who have placed the vertical axial position as just as important as the horizontal axial position.


I admit, a few inches may not yield many benefits, but 6 inches to 2 feet definitely does make an audible difference for the better.


As I said, I have thick carpet over concrete. Mechanical vibrations have never been an issue for me.

When I built then tested my subs on risers the change was NOT a placebo effect. The change in LFE was dramatic. It was a "holy cow, never heard that before moment"

Granted, I don't have REW waterfalls to prove it, but I DO know the characteristics of my room and my old setup from hearing alone. The difference was not slight. It was a shocking difference.


Doesn't cost anything really to check this for yourself. Put your subs UP on a platform for a while. report back.


Test,

As I said....all the above is fine, but the one, simple item you overlooked was my suggestion that you perform a DBT. Once again, I have no dog in this fight. I'm not advocating any position here. I'm simply pointing out that your supposition here is nothing more than subjective, anecdotal conjecture. Fair summation, or not? Keep in mind, we just had a member tell us what a "world of difference he could tell from soldered vs crimped" wire. Just sayin'.........
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbx123 /forum/post/20739428


No, I won't front on you...I have not heard and am not familiar with that term.

Ok cool no sweat. Here is a link that explains it better than I ever could.
http://forum.blu-ray.com/subwoofers/...er-risers.html


I'm not saying Big Daddy is the be all end all but I do know his contributions to our community have been pretty significant. I tend to listen when he speaks...lol

Quote:
You may have misquoted it..or maybe I just don't understand it, but literal translation would mean (to me): He just contradicted himself. If de-coupling off the floor is overrated...", Doesn't this mean, "lifting off the floor" is overrated?

No, that was a direct copy/paste quote.

There is a difference between DE-Coupling and addressing the vertical axial mode.

De-coupling addresses vibration and resonance issues for those who have subs on wood, laminate, flimsy floors.

The subdudes CAN help this issue. For sure.

The subdues do NOT address the issue of vertical axial modes.

They do not raise the sub enough on their own to solve that issue.





Quote:
As I said....all the above is fine, but the one, simple item you overlooked was my suggestion that you perform a DBT. Once again, I have no dog in this fight. I'm not advocating any position here. I'm simply pointing out that your supposition here is nothing more than subjective, anecdotal conjecture. Fair summation, or not? Keep in mind, we just had a member tell us what a "world of difference he could tell from soldered vs crimped" wire. Just sayin'.........

I hear yea and I'm glad your skeptical.

All I can say is take 20 minutes of your time, put your subs UP , and listen for a while.


Test,
 

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best thing to do here is take some readings at exact listening positions where you think is sounds a lot better, with and without the risers...then the proof will be in the pudding...
 
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