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hearing loss?

684 Views 16 Replies 8 Participants Last post by mborner, Feb 24, 2005

phatfreeza

Discussion Starter · Feb 23, 2005

okay i'm a newb and i wasn't sure what words to use for a search, so i'm just gonna ask this...

will watching movies on a home theater system lead to premature hearing loss? i ask this because i just bought a HTIB and i set it up. i noticed that i really like watching movies with the thing cranked up. i then immediately thought that this would probably be bad for me in the long run.

what do you guys think? is this true?

i'm one of those people that hate to listen to music loud in the car, but i love to crank up my movies... go figure.

discuss!!

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1 - 17 of 17 Posts

ijd

· #2 · Feb 23, 2005

You'll find that as you upgrade your speakers to handle a wider range of frequencies (ie. more bass extension) you will run with lower volumes.

We have a natural tendency to turn the volume up until the bass sounds 'normal' ... then suffer with too much high frequency as an overall proportion of the total SPL if the speakers don't have much bass output.

phatfreeza

Discussion Starter · #3 · Feb 23, 2005

Quote:

Originally posted by ijd
You'll find that as you upgrade your speakers to handle a wider range of frequencies (ie. more bass extension) you will run with lower volumes.

We have a natural tendency to turn the volume up until the bass sounds 'normal' ... then suffer with too much high frequency as an overall proportion of the total SPL if the speakers don't have much bass output.

so there's no help for us folk with cheap system?

can i calibrate my woofer settings so that the bass sounds "normal" while not suffering too much high frequency? or am i pretty much limited by the speakers i have? i keep hearing about people with 12 inch subs and how they induce how shall i say... "earthquakes"

all that energy flowing through the room can't be good right?

Tarron_D

· #4 · Feb 23, 2005

Well, hearing loss does depend on how loud your listening first and foremost. So, you should go down to radio shack, pick up an SPL meter and check just how loud you are listening. Im defenitely not an expert on hearing, but as long as your movie isn't higher than 90db average, you don't have anything to worry about. Of course, that is an average, and a movie isn't that loud all the way through, so however loud you are listening now prolly isn't going to be enough to hurt you.

ijd

· #5 · Feb 23, 2005

Quote:

Originally posted by phatfreeza
so there's no help for us folk with cheap system? can i calibrate my woofer settings so that the bass sounds "normal" while not suffering too much high frequency? or am i pretty much limited by the speakers i have? i keep hearing about people with 12 inch subs and how they induce how shall i say... "earthquakes" all that energy flowing through the room can't be good right?

I currently have a fairly "cheap" system ... but with carefully chosen components and some effort (NOT dollars ... yet) put into room acoustics to achieve essentially flat response down to 20Hz in my room.

One step was to swap out a $2,500 receiver and replace with a $500 digital receiver that gave me the clarity and power I wanted. Another step was to replace some old "audiophile" bookshelf speakers with new ones at the same equivalent [in today's dollars] price - with the new speakers having a flat bass extension down to 38Hz (just above the lowest notes on a piano) where the old ones stopped at maybe 80Hz ... that gave me a better-controlled bass extension down to exactly the same frequency as my old 8" subwoofer. Then I swapped my 8" KEF subwoofer for a Hsu STF-2 that actually cost me $10 less than the KEF it replaced ... that gave me the flat extension down to 20Hz after quite a bit of tweaking of location, crossover and gain.

Since making the changes I'd say my average listening levels have dropped at least 10dB for the same perceived volume and the total cost is less than before. Sound quality is also now damned close to what I had just a few years ago with an ultra-$$ system in a purpose-built home auditorium.

So, you see, money isn't everything ... but it has taken nearly 12 months of research and trial-and-error to perform this "upgrade" ... and the job's not finished yet ........

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phatfreeza

Discussion Starter · #6 · Feb 23, 2005

Tarron_D - i will make that trip down to the shack and see how loud the system really is... i hope its lower than 90db

ijd - man, you put a lot more effort than i would want to put

but it sounds like it has paid off! i'm not sure i'd have the time and patience to do what you did

ijd

· #7 · Feb 23, 2005

Quote:

Originally posted by phatfreeza
ijd - man, you put a lot more effort than i would want to put but it sounds like it has paid off! i'm not sure i'd have the time and patience to do what you did

Fortunately (depending on how you look at it) I have more time than dollars to spend these days. The upgrade part only took 2 months ... the rest was planning how ... and whether to bother or not (since I never expected to get this far so cheaply). Thanks to another forum like this, I exceeded my wildest expectations.

11001011

· #8 · Feb 23, 2005

Quote:

Originally posted by Tarron_D
Im defenitely not an expert on hearing, but as long as your movie isn't higher than 90db average, you don't have anything to worry about. Of course, that is an average, and a movie isn't that loud all the way through, so however loud you are listening now prolly isn't going to be enough to hurt you.

The problem is hearing loss is cumulative, so repetitive loud noises add up over time. Even if the average sound level is well in the safe zone.

phatfreeza

Discussion Starter · #9 · Feb 23, 2005

Quote:

Originally posted by 11001011
The problem is hearing loss is cumulative, so repetitive loud noises add up over time. Even if the average sound level is well in the safe zone.

that's a good point. i wonder if there has ever been any study on this, that is hearing loss as a result of constantly watching movies at a high volume. i want to save my hearing yet i love to hear the effects of my movies.. ah, the trade offs in life...

rynberg

· #10 · Feb 23, 2005

Let's put things in perspective:

OSHA has established that a 90 dBA limit for a working day of 8-hours for 40 years has an 18% chance of causing a noticeable hearing loss.

90 dBA is very loud and is quite a bit louder than the average levels from a movie soundtrack, even played back at "reference" level.

Not to guarantee it won't happen, but I fail to see how watching a couple of movies a week at slightly less than reference level (quite loud) is going to be a significant risk of hearing damage. You'll most likely more hearing loss due to pure aging.

DMF

· #11 · Feb 23, 2005

Quote:

Originally posted by phatfreeza
i keep hearing about people with 12 inch subs and how they induce how shall i say... "earthquakes" all that energy flowing through the room can't be good right?

Actually, the ear is quite insensitive to damage in the bass frequencies. (I mean true bass, from 100 Hz down.) It's the highs that really get us. So a good subwoofer may give you the punch you crave, while letting you back off on the overall volume.

Another cause of excess volume can be muddied dialog. (Listen with this in mind. Are you turning it up to better hear what is being said?) The cause of muddy dialog is usually a reflective room. You can improve that with little or no expenditure.

Have you calibrated your system?

phatfreeza

Discussion Starter · #12 · Feb 23, 2005

Quote:

Originally posted by DMF
Actually, the ear is quite insensitive to damage in the bass frequencies. (I mean true bass, from 100 Hz down.) It's the highs that really get us. So a good subwoofer may give you the punch you crave, while letting you back off on the overall volume.

Another cause of excess volume can be muddied dialog. (Listen with this in mind. Are you turning it up to better hear what is being said?) The cause of muddy dialog is usually a reflective room. You can improve that with little or no expenditure.

Have you calibrated your system?

hey thanks for posting!

i think you've hit upon something that i've been wondering for awhile... i do turn up volume to hear muddied dialog, and then complain about the sound effects being too loud... and end up turning the volume up and down when there is action and then dialog, etc... ( i know, this is a very bad thing to do) can i just turn up the volume on my center speaker? or is that usually not recommeded.

i've always thought it was because i had a crappy center speaker as this is where dialogue mainly comes from.

that said, i've calibrated my system by ear, but have yet to purchase a spl meter and run avia. that would probably help me...

you mention reflective room being one of the major reasons why there is muddied dialog... can you point me to some threads or tell me how i can tell if i have reflective issues?

rynberg - thanks for that tidbit from OSHA. i learn something new everyday!

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DMF

· #13 · Feb 23, 2005

The ear is a terrible calibration tool. Definitely get the SPL meter. If your receiver has test tones (and most do nowadays) you won't even need a disc to set speaker levels.

Dialog is carried by all three fronts. One problem could be the speaker phase. The center might be out of phase with the fronts.

Room reflectivity usually deals with the first reflection points, where sound bounces off something between you and the speaker like light off a mirror. The reflection arrives out of synch with the main sound and garbles it. Do you have a coffee table between you and the TV? A window on the side wall(s)? Even just drywall. Wood floors?

Look at your room with these thoughts in mind.

phatfreeza

Discussion Starter · #14 · Feb 23, 2005

Quote:

Originally posted by DMF
The ear is a terrible calibration tool. Definitely get the SPL meter. If your receiver has test tones (and most do nowadays) you won't even need a disc to set speaker levels.

Dialog is carried by all three fronts. One problem could be the speaker phase. The center might be out of phase with the fronts.

Room reflectivity usually deals with the first reflection points, where sound bounces off something between you and the speaker like light off a mirror. The reflection arrives out of synch with the main sound and garbles it. Do you have a coffee table between you and the TV? A window on the side wall(s)? Even just drywall. Wood floors?

Look at your room with these thoughts in mind.

just to make sure, i use the spl meter to make sure that i'm getting the same volume from each speaker from the listening position right?

you mention that my cneter could be out of phase with my fronts, how can i check this??

thanks for your quick and informative replies!

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DMF

· #15 · Feb 23, 2005

Y

Swap wires and see if it sounds better.

LarryChanin

· #16 · Feb 23, 2005

Quote:

Originally posted by rynberg
Let's put things in perspective:

OSHA has established that a 90 dBA limit for a working day of 8-hours for 40 years has an 18% chance of causing a noticeable hearing loss.

90 dBA is very loud and is quite a bit louder than the average levels from a movie soundtrack, even played back at "reference" level.

Not to guarantee it won't happen, but I fail to see how watching a couple of movies a week at slightly less than reference level (quite loud) is going to be a significant risk of hearing damage. You'll most likely more hearing loss due to pure aging.

I agree.

Here's a document that illustrates this point.

Maximum Exposure per day (OSHA)

This chart shows the amount of hours of exposure per day it would take for the onset of hearing loss based on listening at various sound levels. At reference level, which is 75 db, there is no hearing loss.

As rynberg points out, reference level is quite loud. I recall that an AV Sciences poll showed that most people listen at levels many db lower than reference level.

Larry

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mborner

· #17 · Feb 24, 2005

Quote:

Originally posted by phatfreeza

you mention reflective room being one of the major reasons why there is muddied dialog... can you point me to some threads or tell me how i can tell if i have reflective issues?

Snap your fingers in a silent room and listen for the echos. Usually, open rooms with tile or hardwood floors and windows on more than one side are highly reflective.

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