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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm currently using the Moneual Monocasa 312B . And while I love the look of the case, it does has it's flaws: Tight spaces, zero vibration dampening, air flow restrictions. And it doesn't help that Win 7 can't do a proper Sleep or Hibernation mode to save Bill Gates life. Which bring me to my problem.


The aluminum case gets hot. Not warm but almost egg-frying hot!
And even with my crafty little fan mountings it doesn't seem to help at all.






So with 3 fans running you would think that the case would be fine. But when you touch it, even the front of the case, gets hot after running a movie front the hdd, playing a BR disc or recording a show. It's like the whole case is a heat sink. I know that the mb's NB heatsink is part of the problem. But I've never had a PC with temps like this before. So now I'm considering options.


1. Replace the heat sink on the north bridge or...

2. Switch cases for better air flow


I'm considering going back to the old Antec NSK with still hold my last years HTPC for the time being. Or finding something new. I was looking a Thermaltake at Micro Center this past weekend but it has now hdd dampening. I really wanted this to be my last HTPC build for a while but the hunt goes on.



Guts:

Motherboard: Gigabyte E7AUM-DS2H mATX HDMI

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 3GHz

Memory: CORSAIR 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)

CPU Cooler: Scythe "SHURIKEN"


Video Card: Nvidia GeForce 9400 - Onboard

Sound: Realtek ALC889A - Onboard


Drives:

Main: 1 x SAMSUNG Spinpoint 500GB 2.5

Storage: 1 x Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 1TB

Optical: Plextor PX-B310SA SW Blu Ray


HDTV Tuner: 2 x AVerMedia AVerTVHD Duet - PCTV Tuner (A188)

WiFI: Netgear WG111 v.2

Keyboard/Mouse: Logitech diNovo Edge Bluetooth

PSU: Seasonic M12II 430-GM 430w

Antenna: Terrestrial Digital DB2 Multi-Directional HDTV
 

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'crafty' fan mounting can make things worse. You have to have some basic understanding of airflow for it to work. It basically comes down to cool air must be sucked in at about the same rate that hot air is sucked out. If not, you can create air pressure inside the case that makes the fans much less efficient. In addition, if you have a bunch of fans inside the case blowing every which way, this disturbes the airflow and the air can get caught inside the case and not blown out efficiently.


If you've 'modded' your own fans into this case, the first thing I'd try doing is removing them and only using fan slots provided by the case. Try using larger fans or higher CFM fans at the case fan slots.


Also, to test how bad your airflow is, you can run the computer with the cover off. If the temperatures drop several celcius, you know your airflow is bad. An excellent airflow setup should equal or be less than the temperatures would be with the cover off.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'm quite sure it's the bad airflow. A good Flash animation would come in handy now to show what I think is going on in here. I'm going to go over the old topic concerning this case in a bit to see how others handles this issue. I believe there were a few that had heat issues back then.


But this is how I have the fans mounted underneath both hdds.



They pull the air up from the bottom of the case through the vents below them.



There are vents in the top and top sides of the case to let heat flow out. Along with 3 40mm fans vents in the rear.




In the image above this is what I see going on. The PSU is pushing air down through a vent and directly out of the case.


The CPU fan is pulling air down through the top vent where heat is trying to escape from the case. It is also next to the mobo heat sink which is hot enough to brand someone.
That heat is trying to rise and getting blown around by the CPU fan.


The hdd fans are pulling air up form the bottom and it apparently isn't exiting the case very well because the top, sides and front of the case are all hot.


So if I stuck with this case the immediate solutions would be to remove the fan from the 2.5" hdd. It's a 500gb drive but I'm sure it's a 5400rpm drive so it could survive without a fan. I'll do that when I get home. But I would like some good airflow over the 1tb drive since it is used for recording and playing back video files.


On the CPU and 1tb hdd I'm using Scythe KAZE JYU SLIM SY1012SL12M 100mm Case Fans. The CPU original fan was a 1000 rpm model and the new fans are 2000 rpm models. But they are still quiet.


I could look into some 40mm fans and give them a try to pull the air out of the back but then there is a chance of increasing the noise level. But it is an option. Then there is changing out the heat sink from the GPU on the north bridge or what ever that thing is on.


I'll do a search for that Moneual HTPC topic.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackal55 /forum/post/16982031


The CPU fan is pulling air down through the top vent where heat is trying to escape from the case.

Well Kemosabe, THIS IS BAAAAAAD!!!


Hot air naturally wants to rise, and this CPU fan is fighting it! Fans that pull down are designed for tower cases, vertical mounting, not for a desktop case.


Flip the cpu fan upside down, and I'd bet a gazillion, u will see an immediate difference.
 

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Quote:
Flip the cpu fan upside down, and I'd bet a gazillion, u will see an immediate difference.

+1 I was just going to suggest this.



BB
 

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It seems you're just blowing air around inside the case. You have to force the air to be exchanged. Blowing the air around inside the case doesn't remove the hot air.


The fans under the HDDs do not appear to be sealed to the holes on the bottom so that the air must come in from under the case. You're also blowing air against the hard drive which is a major air restriction.


The PS fan should suck in from the bottom and blow out the back so it shouldn't be putting hot air at the bottom and causing a problem.


You need to have a place where the air is pushed in and then have vents that allow the air to go back out. It's preferred that the in to out holes are on opposite corners of the case.


Try this, Put a 120mm fan on the bottom right side over those vents so the only opening is through the fan and air can't go around the fan. Block the vents on the right side wall and the bottom left. The air then must go across the case and out the left side or the back. You could also experiment with blocking the left side too so the air must go out the back. Use clear packing tape and just tape over the openings. Stick the 2.5" HDD under the 3.5" HDD so the air can get through that corner of the case.


Unfortunately, it appears that on the bottom right there isn't a square opening the size of a 120mm fan. Maybe it's time to make an opening for a fan? Another alternative might be to put the CPU heatsink fan up against the bottom of the cover so the air is blown out there and then seal those holes to the left. I'm not sure how the CPU will cool if the fan is not right on the heatsink but maybe a "tunnel" down to the heatsink would take care of that. The air would suck in the sides of the enclosure through the heatsink and then out the top.


Peter
 

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i'm not seeing any fans that force air out of the box! even if you have "3 40mm fans" somewhere, they won't move any air to speak of.


If you have the HTPC mounted ABOVE your receiver...move it!! receiver's generate a hateful amount of heat, and you may be cooking your HTPC in it's heat wake. Also besure you have some clearance between all your units so they can have airflow above and below the items.


a doable mod (if you want to keep the case), is drill a blowhole over the motherboard, in an area where you can mount a 120mm Nexus fan with some silicon mounts. It should be essentially silent, will eject a ton of hot air from the case, and should fix the problems. you need a 120mm fan (i like nexus), some silicon fan mounts, a 120mm fan grill, a power drill and a 4.5" hole saw drill bit, and some wd-40.


figure out where you can drill the blowhole, so the fan won't hit anything inside the case, when it is mounted internally (away from expansion cards).


make a small pilot hole, then clamp the top of the case onto a old piece of plywood, and carefully drill out the hole. use lots of wd-40 while your drilling to keep thing cool. obviously, don't drill the hole while the top os attached to the case. clean up the metal slivers carefully before you place the top back on the case. a little black sharpie can knock the shine off the cut edge of the hole. Some small holes to hold the black silicon fan mounts need to be carefully placed and drilled. the silicon mounts can secure the fan and the grill.


When i laid out my rack mounted system, i placed the units that generated the most heat, the highest in the rack (the receiver).


I have drilled out 2 blowholes (handheld drill sufficient, if you have a steady hand and are handy with tools), one in my htpc, one in a drive array box, and the results are perfect. lots of airflow, very quiet.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by heartsurgeon /forum/post/16982354


figure out where you can drill the blowhole

No-no-no-no-no.


If anything this guy's case got TOO MANY holes! His case has holes on the bottom, holes on the side, holes on the back, big grill on top. He doesn't need more holes.


He just need to direct the airflow the proper way. As is, only the PSU fan is taking air out, all other fans are just a heap of confused spinning blades.
 

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Watercool it.


Try a Reserator XT..if you like analogue guages and lights its the biz.


Fix the dodgey flowmeter yourself when it goes on the blink and use distilled water not the zalman blue fluid...it sucks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I have no receiver yet. But yes, even with all of those holes the hot air is trapped in this case. The air doesn't flow like my Antec. And I thought about flipping the fan but I've never had a fan on a CPU before that was set to pull air away from the CPU. I'll do that when I get home then I'll run a movie from the hard drive and see how it goes.




That's my old GMC case in this pic. It's a great case if I had a server to run media from since it can only hold 1 hdd. Too bad the PSU burnt out.
 

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I have a case that's about the same dimensions -- the Ahanix MCE301. I rebuilt it with a 65 watt Phenom II quad and I used the Scythe Big Shuriken. It came with one of those skinny 120mm fans you're using, but I replaced it with a regular 25mm thick PWM case fan and reduced the cpu temp by 10 degrees. It brought down the temperature of the embedded graphics, too. That might be the mod you need for most of your heat. The Big Shuriken doesn't like tall memory modules, though.
 

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Did you check this thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...t#post16459967 It seems to indicate that the 40 mm fans are a must. The answers should besomewhere in that 7 page thread.

Quote:
It does need a couple of 40mm fans though. I added two Adda fans - they are inaudible and they helped lower the case temperature by 12 degrees. My processor is now running at 29 deg C at idle and the IGP temp never goes above 50 even when running 1080p without HA.

BB
 

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"No-no-no-no-no.

If anything this guy's case got TOO MANY holes!"


well, that's just a silly statement. he has insufficient air exchange between the interior (hot) and the exterior (cool) of the case. Regardless of the "holes" in the case, he has insufficient passive and active airflow through the case to cool the hardware sufficiently.



regardless of how the fans inside the case are oriented, they will NOT have as much impact on air flow through the case, as adding a blowhole at the top, with a venting 120mm fan. No other option will provide as much airflow.


it appears that the only fan moving air out of the case is the PSU fan. It has proven to be inadequate for the task.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by heartsurgeon /forum/post/16983765


regardless of how the fans inside the case are oriented, they will NOT have as much impact on air flow through the case, as adding a blowhole at the top, with a venting 120mm fan. No other option will provide as much airflow.

It has to do with the physics that says, a well directed duct, like wind blowing through a canyon has better cooling effect that a completely open plairie. But am not going to split hair with u. That case has more holes than the Mexican border, aesthetically, are u serious u want him to add ANOTHER hole?
 

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I will have to whole-heartedly agree with heartsurgeon. Up and out is the way to go.


First off, get 3 40mm fans in the back. Look for ones designed to be silent if you don't have any. Newegg is your friend. Invest in a pci-slot fan controller if you can afford it.


It looks like from your pictures that you have a sort of slotted vent system right above your cpu cooler. If so, turn that fan upside down and let it exhaust through those vents. Whatever is blocked will be sucked out by the 40mm fans. If you have no vents up top, consider either a blowhole or making small ventholes with a drill(!).


I own a silverston lc-13, and silly me I tried to make a gaming/htpc system out of it. It has 2 60mm fans on the back and one 92mm up front. I ran into your problems and drilled out a blowhole and flipped my fan so it sucked up (similar heatsink as you).

Dropped temps by avg 5 deg across the board. Keep in mind I already had the rear fans running, so YMMV, but should be much better than my avg.


Also, I really recommend the fan controller, even bios fan controller can work if it is variable. My 60mm fans scream at normal speed. Made movies unenjoyable, but with them set at "silent" in my bios, I no longer hear them and my temps are reasonable. For my blowhole, I took a shower drain cover and used it as a template (LOL). It looks funky if you inspect it, but it's in the rack and not noticeable.


In the end you will be reducing most of the overall internal temps. this should improve the efficiency of the heatsinks you do have for proper heat transmission.


Hope this helps!
 

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Below is from Moneual's web site:




To the other posters: It needs to be noted that the PSU does not pull any air from the case. The PSU venting faces down (upper left in photo) and to the rear. That removes the PSU from possible internal airflow stream.


It might help to replace the heatsinkother posters both on the 312 thread and the GA-E7AUM-DS2H thread has reported doing this; example, here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post16708614


One of the posts even noted a 15?? Degree drop in GPU temp, just by replacing the OEM thermal paste, with something like Arctic Cooling MX-2 (I can't find the post).


With this being saidI'm still building with the same case / MB / PS. I posted a few temperatures here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post16972504


Now with that being said, my build is still in the (68 degree) basement, and won't put under load until next week (Blu-Ray arriving). I'll have a better picture then. As of nowno fans in the rear of the casebut again, I'm waiting to see if I need them.


Watching the 312 thread closely, I made the decision to mount both my HDD's in front of the PSU, to open up the airflow on the other side of the case, knowing that the GPU would need it. I formatted a 1T drive over the weekend for 3 hours (sample load?) and both the HDD temps went from 43 to 47, leveled off and stopped climbing. This supports the decision the leave the other HDD cage open, was okay.


Jackal55: I really apprecaite the posts you and the others made, while I filtered through my own hardware selection.


Regards,

Lippy2Day
 

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I'd like to modify what I posted before a bit. turn the CPU cooler fan upside down. Get a cereal box and make a duct that goes around the fan up to the top cover of the case. There might be something you could buy too for a cooling mod. This will force that fan to exaust the air out of the top. Cover the rest of the top vents so the air can't just be sucked back in. If it's still not cool enough then get a fan that moves more air.


Peter
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thanks for the replies everyone. Great airflow chart lippy2day.



I flipped the CPU fan last night and watched a movie from the hdd. The temps were better. The front of the case only got a little warm compared to hot. The area over the gpu/cpu was the only area that was hot this time which is to be expected.


I might have to look into the gpu heat sink connection since it seems like a lot of people had some bad surface contact issues. I might even look into an alternative gpu heat sink while I'm at it. I'll invest in a couple of 40mm fans too and give that a try. It couldn't hurt.


I'm also considering putting the hdd fans above the hdds to see if that would help to pull air better over the drives and toward the top side vents.
 

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We need numbers.


1. Download Real Temp 3.0 and install.


2. Run Real Temp and let the HTPC run for 24 hours or typical use.


3. Post the graphical results here. I want to see your minimum and maximum temp for that duration.
 
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