For all the heavy gamers that own this TV, how is the input lag? This is the only thing holding me and others from buying this TV. I know there's a Owner's thread, but they barely discuss issues that gamers care about. The console section doesnt cover this either. Please, if you have this TV let us know how you feel about it's gaming performance. Thanks
HEAVY GAMERS: Samsung B750 Owners
-
Now Available: Tech Talk Podcast with Scott Wilkinson, Episode 19 Click here for details.
1 - 20 of 38 Posts
They're very likely going to be the same as the B650 that you can read about here and cross reference with last year's models (the new models actually got a little worse this year from what I understand).
In general, Samsungs do not have a good lag reputation (they're arguably the worst). That said, "Game Mode" is perfectly usable (on par with several other manufacturers) and it's unlikely many people would be able to pick up on anything in a blind test with no real point of reference. Hopefully "Game Mode" is mostly customizable this year (Picture, Brightness, Backlight, Color, Sharpness, Etc), I think it is. Last year (the A's) you could not change a single thing, every setting was locked. I also believe the B's may have removed the super fast HDMI-PC mode that last year's A's had (it was noticeably faster than "Game Mode"). This PC mode also came with a number of PQ concessions though.
In general, Samsungs do not have a good lag reputation (they're arguably the worst). That said, "Game Mode" is perfectly usable (on par with several other manufacturers) and it's unlikely many people would be able to pick up on anything in a blind test with no real point of reference. Hopefully "Game Mode" is mostly customizable this year (Picture, Brightness, Backlight, Color, Sharpness, Etc), I think it is. Last year (the A's) you could not change a single thing, every setting was locked. I also believe the B's may have removed the super fast HDMI-PC mode that last year's A's had (it was noticeably faster than "Game Mode"). This PC mode also came with a number of PQ concessions though.
Joined
·
45 Posts
I was worried about this and bought a b750 a week ago. Coming from a 20 inch CRT TV, I thought there was some lag a few days after I got it while I was playing Gears of War 2. I started to get used to it and believe there wasn't any lag, but I wanted to make sure, so I borrowed my friend's Guitar Hero 2. GH2 has a calibration for the input lag, and mine measured between 0ms and 3ms. My friend's plasma + receiver averaged about 40ms. This was with game mode on, which looks pretty darn good.
After getting used to the tv size and location, I can say that effects from input lag are minimal to none. I hope this helps alleviate some fears. I think its a great TV!
After getting used to the tv size and location, I can say that effects from input lag are minimal to none. I hope this helps alleviate some fears. I think its a great TV!
I've had mine almost 2 weeks now and I love it. Played a couple of demos on the PS3, but mostly just watched Movies with it, but the demo's played fine.
I play games mostly on the 360 and since I have a launch unit, I'm using the Component connection. I've played COD4 (I play this a lot and I'm still owning peeps), GTA IV, RB2 and RB6V2. All of them have played fine and look better then before. I'm coming from a Sony 50A10. I do play with "Game Mode" on and haven't' really changed any setting.
I read too many post about peeps that have lag and don't have lag, so I just figured I would buy it and if it was bad I would just exchange it for something else. I think people see game lag in too many different ways and until you experience it your self you just don't know. My vote is to Buy it.
I play games mostly on the 360 and since I have a launch unit, I'm using the Component connection. I've played COD4 (I play this a lot and I'm still owning peeps), GTA IV, RB2 and RB6V2. All of them have played fine and look better then before. I'm coming from a Sony 50A10. I do play with "Game Mode" on and haven't' really changed any setting.
I read too many post about peeps that have lag and don't have lag, so I just figured I would buy it and if it was bad I would just exchange it for something else. I think people see game lag in too many different ways and until you experience it your self you just don't know. My vote is to Buy it.
Joined
·
143 Posts
Have owned my 46B750 for a couple of weeks now. So far ive mainly been gaming with Killzone 2. I noticed quite few times that when I had the AMP on (even with de-judder set at 0) the video at times would look like it was very choppy with a heap of stuttering mixed in. I now play with the AMP completely turned off and I dont seem to be having the problem anymore. I just assumed that the TV was so powerful that it could handle it. I guess it cant handle the extra processing? its basically the same kind of choppiness and stuttering that I see when watching some SD programing.
Joined
·
167 Posts
Sorry, a bit off topic, but I had to respond to KLUNKDM:
I agree with you 100% on COD4 - How great is that game? I got COD5 when it was released and it was back in the box a week later. I am still playing 4 (and, I might add, truly demoralizing people) after all this time.
I have an A950 and there is no lag. I'm sure that the technology in the B750 is equal to this. Besides, so long as the difference is in milliseconds, you will not be able to tell the difference. The human eye (and correspondingly, any hand reaction) can only move so fast. Think about it -- who can tell the difference between 3ms and 13 ms? Unless you can see the beating of a fly's wing you cannot tell the difference. Most of the lag that you will experience is not the TV but your internet connection. (Some estimates show that internet lag can be as high as 100 ms).
In addition to COD4 (360 and PS3), I play Killzone 2 (PS3), Left 4 Dead (360), GTA IV (360) and RE5 (360) and they all play wonderfully. Gorgeously. Ridiculously clear. I am sure the B750 handles it just as well. So, my advice? Get the TV and get rid of the dial up modem.
I agree with you 100% on COD4 - How great is that game? I got COD5 when it was released and it was back in the box a week later. I am still playing 4 (and, I might add, truly demoralizing people) after all this time.
I have an A950 and there is no lag. I'm sure that the technology in the B750 is equal to this. Besides, so long as the difference is in milliseconds, you will not be able to tell the difference. The human eye (and correspondingly, any hand reaction) can only move so fast. Think about it -- who can tell the difference between 3ms and 13 ms? Unless you can see the beating of a fly's wing you cannot tell the difference. Most of the lag that you will experience is not the TV but your internet connection. (Some estimates show that internet lag can be as high as 100 ms).
In addition to COD4 (360 and PS3), I play Killzone 2 (PS3), Left 4 Dead (360), GTA IV (360) and RE5 (360) and they all play wonderfully. Gorgeously. Ridiculously clear. I am sure the B750 handles it just as well. So, my advice? Get the TV and get rid of the dial up modem.
Joined
·
6,927 Posts
I was concerned about game lag but at least for my sports gaming habits it's seem fine thus far for me on my B650. A bigger issue that I've noticed is ghosting. It's pretty noticeable on MLB 09 The Show when balls are thrown to first base and so on. I haven't noticed it yet in a few other games I've played.
We're not talking about 3 or 13ms though, we're talking about upwards of 100ms (offline) introduced by the TV alone (see the threads I previously linked to). That is in addition to internet lag and inherent rendering engine/features lag (both of which can be substantial). In general, I would agree though. 95% of people are never going to notice a problem with "Game Mode". The standard modes are bad enough on the Samsung's though that I think just about anyone can see or feel it if they are shown it with the right test source. Especially in an A/B comparison with a very fast display. Whether they pick up on it on their own is another matter. A totally oblivious user is obviously much more likely to blame the game, themselves, or even the wireless controller before the TV. They would likely never blame the TV actually.
We're not talking about 3 or 13ms though, we're talking about upwards of 100ms (offline) introduced by the TV alone (see the threads I previously linked to). That is in addition to internet lag and inherent rendering engine/features lag (both of which can be substantial). In general, I would agree though. 95% of people are never going to notice a problem with "Game Mode". The standard modes are bad enough on the Samsung's though that I think just about anyone can see or feel it if they are shown it with the right test source. Especially in an A/B comparison with a very fast display. Whether they pick up on it on their own is another matter. A totally oblivious user is obviously much more likely to blame the game, themselves, or even the wireless controller before the TV. They would likely never blame the TV actually.
Joined
·
1,158 Posts
The B650/B750 series televisions have ~50ms of input lag in game mode. However, this number will change depending on whether you have a panel in the TV manufactured from Samsung, AOU, or Chi Mei.
Joined
·
167 Posts
Orta,
I agree. I was just pointing out that a lot of people blame the TV for lag, when there are so many other sources of that perceived lag. Unless you set up a control environment -- same feed, material and connectors -- you can't truly isolate the portion that is attributable to the TV.
I would actually up the percentage to 99% for the viewers that would never notice. The remaining 1% post on forums like this!
I agree. I was just pointing out that a lot of people blame the TV for lag, when there are so many other sources of that perceived lag. Unless you set up a control environment -- same feed, material and connectors -- you can't truly isolate the portion that is attributable to the TV.
I would actually up the percentage to 99% for the viewers that would never notice. The remaining 1% post on forums like this!
Joined
·
215 Posts
I am pretty sure ALL Sammy's are mfg. im Mexico.. I owned the ln52b750 a couple of months ago and I am a heavy gamer.. I perssonnaly thought processing was weak on the 240hz especially after seeing my buds 55" 8000 edge lit 240hz is quite good compared to the b750's 240hz... The blurring and frame rate issues I also thought that it just might be to powerful but that doesnt seem to be the case not to mention the the slight color drop of when moving on games like cod4 etc..
On the back left there should be a label that states ssq2, or ssq02 something like that I believe sammy uses thier panels in all big lcds esp. 120hz+ models..this year it seems but you never know..
I am pretty sure ALL Sammy's are mfg. im Mexico.. I owned the ln52b750 a couple of months ago and I am a heavy gamer.. I perssonnaly thought processing was weak on the 240hz especially after seeing my buds 55" 8000 edge lit 240hz is quite good compared to the b750's 240hz... The blurring and frame rate issues I also thought that it just might be to powerful but that doesnt seem to be the case not to mention the the slight color drop of when moving on games like cod4 etc..
On the back left there should be a label that states ssq2, or ssq02 something like that I believe sammy uses thier panels in all big lcds esp. 120hz+ models..this year it seems but you never know..
doesn't matter where its manufactured ,but the panel used is important.
if the lcd has a AMVA(A)/SMVA(C) panel they will have low input lag.if you get a SPVA(S) panel it will have a high input lag.
but the SMVA has lower contrast ,the colors look a bit washed out and off axis viewing angle is worst.
the AMVA panels on the other hand has higher off axis viewing angle,better then SPVA.the contrast levels are comparable to SPVA,although SPVA may have a very slight edge in black levels.
sony lcds use AMVA or SPVA and the BE image processing is better then samsung in terms of input lag.
doesn't matter where its manufactured ,but the panel used is important.
if the lcd has a AMVA(A)/SMVA(C) panel they will have low input lag.if you get a SPVA(S) panel it will have a high input lag.
but the SMVA has lower contrast ,the colors look a bit washed out and off axis viewing angle is worst.
the AMVA panels on the other hand has higher off axis viewing angle,better then SPVA.the contrast levels are comparable to SPVA,although SPVA may have a very slight edge in black levels.
sony lcds use AMVA or SPVA and the BE image processing is better then samsung in terms of input lag.
I play Call of Duty quite a bit. Without game mode on, it was a nightmare using the B750 set. With game mode on, it's more than playable, if not perfect. Really, I can't understand how people play games like CoD, Hot Shots, DDR, Guitar Hero/Rock Band etc without game mode enabled...
Thanks for the input (no pun inteded). As i do more research ive come to the conclusion that I can only buy HDTV with IPS Panels. My current Panasonic 32tcl700 with 120Hz performs very well. No input lag, blurring/smearing, no off angle washout. The only thing is its contrast ratio is lower than the current top LCDs and Panasonic doesnt make anything bigger than 37 inches. Looking at the New LG's with LED local dimming, IPS panels, I can only imagen what Panasonic could do with LEDs and their exception picture processors. Panasonic's implementation of 120Hz and IPS panels cannot be beaten when it comes to gaming. The HD picture quality in Movies and shows is just the icing on the cake. Too bad they dont want to make LCDs bigger because it can hurt their Plasma TV sales.
well ips based tvs are good ,but as you know the contrast levels are poor,reduced shadow details,but if u get a lcd with a AMVA panel u get very high contrast,but will have higher off axis viewing and has lesser input lag then SPVA based tvs,so its a good compromise.
the older Z4500 aka XBR6 40inch version has a AMVA panel its input lag is around 0 to 10ms in game mode ,which is realy low and about 16 to 30ms even with 200hz motionflow switched on,compared to samsung B750 which is around 30ms in game mode and around 93ms with 200hz.
well ips based tvs are good ,but as you know the contrast levels are poor,reduced shadow details,but if u get a lcd with a AMVA panel u get very high contrast,but will have higher off axis viewing and has lesser input lag then SPVA based tvs,so its a good compromise.
the older Z4500 aka XBR6 40inch version has a AMVA panel its input lag is around 0 to 10ms in game mode ,which is realy low and about 16 to 30ms even with 200hz motionflow switched on,compared to samsung B750 which is around 30ms in game mode and around 93ms with 200hz.
1 - 20 of 38 Posts
