[mcallister]

I'm looking into finally getting a front projection system. Curious what I should do. I'm eyeing a used JVC DLA HD-100 but I'm curious if I'd be better off going with a Epson 6500, a Sony or panasonic, mits etc etc new for around the same price I can get the JVC?


Projector will be ceiling mounted in a light controlled room at 16' from a 106" screen.


Thanks for any and all help.

 

[Jason Turk]

From a performance standpoint, the JVC will outperform the LCD's on a whole. It would really come down to things like lamp hours, overall condition, etc...

 

[mcallister]

Thanks Jason

 

[Jason Turk]

Welcome.

 

[mcallister]

One more quesiton. If you could get the HD-100 for the same price as an RS10 which would you choose?


Thanks again.

 

[erkq]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mcallister /forum/post/16881760


One more quesiton. If you could get the HD-100 for the same price as an RS10 which would you choose?


Thanks again.

RS10! Brighter. About the same contrast but has a manual iris so there are more brightness/CR choices. Kinda' the same color gamut issues.

 

[Jason Turk]



Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq /forum/post/16884557


RS10! Brighter. About the same contrast but has a manual iris so there are more brightness/CR choices. Kinda' the same color gamut issues.

RS10 is a better overall projector, and really if the HD100 is the same price it is, well, overpriced.

 

[GoCaboNow]

Jason, does AVS sell used projectors?

 

[RVonse]

It would be real nice if there were such a thing as a digital projector list like the people in the crt forum have developed. Just a list that ranks the favorites from worst to best (assuming equal hours) to help people like myself who haven't seen many digital projectors.


I know a lot about crt projectors but just learning about digitals.

 

[erkq]



Quote:
Originally Posted by RVonse /forum/post/16888747


It would be real nice if there were such a thing as a digital projector list like the people in the crt forum have developed. Just a list that ranks the favorites from worst to best (assuming equal hours) to help people like myself who haven't seen many digital projectors.


I know a lot about crt projectors but just learning about digitals.

I don't know how you could make such a list for digitals. I think digitals are so close to each other in performance per $ these days that other issues take precedence. "It all depends" is a favorite refrain. How big is the screen? Can you live with an HP's limitations? What's the throw? Where can you mount the pj? What are the lighting conditions? What color are your walls/floor/ceiling? What's important to YOU? Can you deal with RBE? Do you want interpolation? Is fabulous contrast (for a digital) worth off colors? On and on and on... everyone would have their own list that matches their situation and preferences.

 

[Jason Turk]



Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCaboNow /forum/post/16888692


Jason, does AVS sell used projectors?

On occasion, though currently I don't have any.

 

[mcallister]

I'm torn between the DLA-HD350 and a Epson 6500UB. Will the HD350 be bright enough. I have very good light control but I am going to be using a 106" Elite Cinetension2 Acoustipro screen. I'm reading that the JVC's can be dim? Or was that the older models. Yet I'm also reading that the 6500 has less than black black levels.

 

[erkq]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mcallister /forum/post/16892497


I'm torn between the DLA-HD350 and a Epson 6500UB. Will the HD350 be bright enough. I have very good light control but I am going to be using a 106" Elite Cinetension2 Acoustipro screen. I'm reading that the JVC's can be dim? Or was that the older models. Yet I'm also reading that the 6500 has less than black black levels.

I think, from what I've read, that the HD350 is brighter than the 6500 in "theater" mode and the 6500 has substantially more lumens in "brightest" mode. So, it's all about what's important to you.


Your concern about JVC's being dim may come from their more realistic lumen ratings and also the RS2 was a bit dimmer that the RS1 and definitely dimmer than the HD350.


EDIT: The HD350 (RS10) is one of the brightest projectors available in "theater" mode. I would also hazard that its native contrast provides a better image that the 6500's dynamic iris. Keep in mind, though, that the HD350's colors are oversaturated and there is no on-board way to correct that. Somewhat mitigate, yes. Correct, no.

 

[RVonse]



Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq /forum/post/16888772


I don't know how you could make such a list for digitals. I think digitals are so close to each other in performance per $ these days that other issues take precedence. "It all depends" is a favorite refrain. How big is the screen? Can you live with an HP's limitations? What's the throw? Where can you mount the pj? What are the lighting conditions? What color are your walls/floor/ceiling? What's important to YOU? Can you deal with RBE? Do you want interpolation? Is fabulous contrast (for a digital) worth off colors? On and on and on... everyone would have their own list that matches their situation and preferences.

I agree that everyone has different preferences and taste. But generally, (at least in the crt world) we tend to rate higher for a projector having a better capability to achieve higher video quality on the average screen. Specifically being capable to deliver what film can normally achieve in a commercial setting. In other words, the projector that delivers high gamma, contrast, color accuracy, and lacking other distortions such as screen door or rainbows. Really, thats what all of us are looking for (crt or digital) no matter what we have on the ceiling.


I still don't know why a list could not be developed just using those key factors. Forgetting about all the other small crap like mounting differences and just think about what you would rate a projector able to create a film like presentation for the average home theater.


In the crt world, it was only possible to come up with such a list by people who had actually seen and compared for themselves a lot of different models. And then average subjective opinions of those individuals.


Why can't some of you experienced digital guys come up with something similar? I for one, would love to study it.

 

[Drexler]



Quote:
Originally Posted by RVonse /forum/post/16893062


I still don't know why a list could not be developed just using those key factors. Forgetting about all the other small crap like mounting differences and just think about what you would rate a projector able to create a film like presentation for the average home theater.


In the crt world, it was only possible to come up with such a list by people who had actually seen and compared for themselves a lot of different models. And then average subjective opinions of those individuals.


Why can't some of you experienced digital guys come up with something similar? I for one, would love to study it.

Maybe because CRTs are all the same type and have similar pro's and cons? When you compare different technologies they have very different pro's and cons and then it's down to which is most important/annoying to you.


Best contrast in dark scenes: JVC RS20. The DLPs are in general not so good here but Planar PD8150 is ok. Samsung SP-A800 lousy...


Best contrast in bright scenes: Look at the DLPs, I bet Marantz 11S2 is great


Sharpest: Look at the DLPS, especially IN83, Samsung SP-A800/SP-A900 and Marantz 11S2/15S1


Color accuracy and greyscale: the Samsungs are reigning here. Planar 8150 is also very good, both Planar and the Samsungs already OOTB. Epson 7500 can be good after calibration, but looses a lot of lumens. RS20 quite good after calibration, I guess the Sonys also.


Motion handling: Sonys models e.g. vw80, DLPs in general are also quite good, the JVC RS10/RS20 less so


Least image noise and most calm picture: I would say the Sonys are really good. DLPs can show more image noise, maybe since they are sharper but the Marantz models and Planar 8150 are quite good.


Rainbow effect: Everything that is not DLP is rainbow free. Some of the worst offenders concerning rainbows are the Samsungs


Frame interpolation: The Panasonic AE3000


Screen door effect: The best are the JVCs and Sonys, DLPs are also pretty good. LCDs less so except the AE3000 which instead can appear a bit soft.


Noise level: Mitsubishis are almost completely silent


Brightness: IN83 is really bright in best mode, JVC RS10/RS20 quite so, some of the LCDs can be very bright in less accurate modes (AE3000, the Epsons). Sonys not very bright. LCDs in best mode are in general not very bright either.


I'm sure there are many more things to consider and that the list needs revision

Pick your poison!

(and feel free to comment!)

 

[Drexler]

A few projectors that are considered top in some regard:

DLP:

Planar 8150: Very sharp and with good color accuracy. Very good contrast in bright scenes and it also has an excellent dynamic iris implementation making it good also in dark scenes. Good motion handling and not very pronounced rainbow effect. Average brightness.


Samsung A800B. Outstanding color accuracy and image correctness. However, it has poor black levels and is maybe not the projector for very rainbow sensitive people. Very sharp and above average in brightness


IN83. Very bright and very sharp. Quite good color accuracy. Very good contrast in bright scenes, less good black level in dark but much better than the Samsung. Not for the rainbow sensitive either.

LCOS/SXRD:

RS20. Excellent black level in dark and especially mixed scenes. Not as good as the DLPs in bright scenes. Good color accuracy after calibration. Not as good in motion handling (e.g. sample and hold effect). Not very bright in brightest mode but above average in best mode. Not as sharp as the DLPs. Very low on Screen Door Effect (SDE).


Sony vw80. Very good motion handling and produces a very film like pleasant picture. Very good black level in dark scenes, but not as good as the RS20 in mixed scenes or the DLPs in bright. Good color accuracy but not very bright. Very low on SDE.

LCD:

Epson 7500UB. Accurate picture after calibration. Very good black level in dark scenes, but not as good as the JVC in mixed. More pronounced SDE than the other alternatives. Bright in brightest mode, but not so in any accurate mode. Has the option of frame interpolation, but it produces artefact's.

 

[Jason Turk]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mcallister /forum/post/16892497


I'm torn between the DLA-HD350 and a Epson 6500UB. Will the HD350 be bright enough. I have very good light control but I am going to be using a 106" Elite Cinetension2 Acoustipro screen. I'm reading that the JVC's can be dim? Or was that the older models. Yet I'm also reading that the 6500 has less than black black levels.

If both are properly setup (operative word being properly), the RS10 is a brighter projector. The Epson has modes that can skew settings to maximize light output, but they look, well, bad.