AVS Forum banner

1 - 20 of 114 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
  • Goal: Build my HT setup out of used parts with good used discounts
  • Use: Movies/TV
  • Will you be adding a subwoofer? Yes, but to be determined later
  • Are you building a surround sound system? Ground up
  • How loud do you want to play? I live in an apartment, lol
  • How far will you be sitting from the speakers? Hm, 8ft I think.
  • Speaker Experience: 2.0 setup with Klipsch RP-150m on my desktop + random 10+ year old small speaker JBL system from Best Buy that was given to me by my dad, lol.

(Sorted by used prices)


Klipsch RP-280F - The cheapest one here by far. MSRP of $400/$350 per speaker used
KEF Q750 - $800 MSRP/$400 used
Definitive Technology BP-9060 - $830 MSRP/$440 used
MartinLogan Motion 60XT - $1000 MSRP/$600 used
KEF Q950 - $1000 MSRP/640 used
JBL Studio 590 - $1000 MSRP/740 used (although previous research shows $450-500 used, but also maybe not great at all? requires more research)
Paradigm Premier 800F - $1000 MSRP/780 used - Only ones I've listened to in person.
SVS Ultra Tower Speaker - $1000 MSRP
Revel F36 - $1000 MSRP
Bowers & Wilkins 603 - $1000 MSRP




Question: Any alternatives I should look at? Either MSRP of $1000 per speaker or just as good as that price tier?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,940 Posts
  • Goal: Build my HT setup out of used parts with good used discounts
  • Use: Movies/TV
  • Will you be adding a subwoofer? Yes, but to be determined later
Question: Any alternatives I should look at? Either MSRP of $1000 per speaker or just as good as that price tier?
Zero need to go with used speakers.

Your first and most obvious mistake is treating the sub as a second-priority later add on, when your usage is 100% movies/TV and assuming that you have to blow $2K on towers instead.

$2K could easily buy you 5 brand-new quality speakers with a quality sub if you shop intelligently, i.e. don't stick only to the big brands sold at Best Buy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Why would I not go used? Discounts on used audio equipment is insane.


My sub is a second priority because I have a okay one right now I can use in the mean time and living in an apartment it's not a priority. Also, they will be floor standing speakers anyway so having a sub isn't as critical as a shelf speaker. It will also not affect what I spend on my speakers, subs, receivers, or whatever . It will probably be a good SVS sub regardless.


$2k could easily buy me brand new setup, yes. But $2k could also buy me $5k worth of used equipment. So I don't see your point. Also, Best Buy doesn't carry half the brands listed... I literally just went to a high end audio store yesterday and briefly listened to 800Fs.



I just need help finding models to include in my research.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,940 Posts
Why would I not go used? Discounts on used audio equipment is insane.

My sub is a second priority because I have a okay one right now I can use in the mean time and living in an apartment it's not a priority. Also, they will be floor standing speakers anyway so having a sub isn't as critical as a shelf speaker. It will also not affect what I spend on my speakers, subs, receivers, or whatever . It will probably be a good SVS sub regardless.
Getting a 50% discount on a $5K pair of mediocre overhyped-brand-name speakers is no great bargain, when there are $800-1000/pr NEW speakers that could actually sound better.

Your usage appears to be 100% HT. Well, for HT a $500 sub with a $300 pair of bookshelves would easily crush a $8K pair of towers. The only reason to get towers is if you have a strong VISUAL preference for them. They have zero FUNCTIONAL benefit when it comes to HT...only for 2.0 MUSIC listening, and even that is debatable.

You do NOT have even an "okay" sub right now...HTIB subs are pure junk, they produce bloated, muddy craptastic bass---that Onkyo probaby goes no lower than 40Hz on a good day, and probably has a huge bump around 50-80Hz (which is what gives newbies the impression that it's "okay"). Even a $400 RSL Speedwoofer would run circles around it, and would eliminate any functional need for towers.

Regarding your list:

1. I'd cross of the Def Tech and B&W. DT is hideously overpriced for mediocre performance so even with a 50% discount you'd not be getting any great bang for the buck. And B&W is ok for music, mediocre for HT and again just sold to gullible newbies based on their pretty cabinets, inflated pricetags, and overhyped "posh" brand name.

2. You can get brand new JBL 590 on sale at jbl.com for 50% off MSRP every 3-4 months. They are by all accounts very nice sounding. But only an idiot would pay full retail for those (ditto for the Polk LSi-M) speakers, so that is a lousy frame of reference to start from.

3. SVS speakers are also ridiculously overpriced. And the Ultra series only makes sense for music, for HT with a sub they are a waste of money outside of the pretty cabinets.

4. Martin Logans similar to SVS in terms of overpriced but with pretty cabinets. You can get similar or better performance with flat tweeter speakers by HTD, Chane, and Emotiva brand new for a fraction of the ridiculous MSRP of MLs.

5. If you like the Klipsch sound, the smart thing to do is to get 3 pairs (use the 5th as your center, resell or store the 6th) of RP-160 from Crutchfield for $380 brand new, $10 return shipping for a seamless/identical soundstage. With only an 8ft listening distance they'd give you all the headroom and dynamics you could possibly want.

MSRP is an arbitrary, made-up, frickin' SCAM, don't you get it? It's like going to buy a new car and of course the sleazeball salesman is going to make a big deal that *just for today* you can get 20% off MSRP, which turns out to be still a thousand or more bucks more than what a more honest dealer would sell you the same car for if you had bothered to shop around.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hughh and tcramer

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Getting a 50% discount on a $5K pair of mediocre overhyped-brand-name speakers is no great bargain, when there are $800-1000/pr NEW speakers that could actually sound better.



What are you even talking about? Reference something for **** sake. What brands or models that I listed are, "overhyped-brand-name speakers" IM NOT GOING NEW.


Your usage appears to be 100% HT. Well, for HT a $500 sub with a $300 pair of bookshelves would easily crush a $8K pair of towers. The only reason to get towers is if you have a strong VISUAL preference for them. They have zero FUNCTIONAL benefit when it comes to HT...only for 2.0 MUSIC listening, and even that is debatable.


I own RP-150Ms... I've listened to tower speakers that are better. I've listened to $30k tower speakers. What you're saying is absolute non sense.


You do NOT have even an "okay" sub right now...HTIB subs are pure junk, they produce bloated, muddy craptastic bass---that Onkyo probaby goes no lower than 40Hz on a good day, and probably has a huge bump around 50-80Hz (which is what gives newbies the impression that it's "okay"). Even a $400 RSL Speedwoofer would run circles around it, and would eliminate any functional need for towers.


What Onkyo... Are you okay? And good lord. Sorry I didn't say, "absolute piece of ****" subwoofer.


Regarding your list:

1. I'd cross of the Def Tech and B&W. DT is hideously overpriced for mediocre performance so even with a 50% discount you'd not be getting any great bang for the buck. And B&W is ok for music, mediocre for HT and again just sold to gullible newbies based on their pretty cabinets, inflated pricetags, and overhyped "posh" brand name.

2. You can get brand new JBL 590 on sale at jbl.com for 50% off MSRP every 3-4 months. They are by all accounts very nice sounding. But only an idiot would pay full retail for those (ditto for the Polk LSi-M) speakers, so that is a lousy frame of reference to start from.

3. SVS speakers are also ridiculously overpriced. And the Ultra series only makes sense for music, for HT with a sub they are a waste of money outside of the pretty cabinets.

4. Martin Logans similar to SVS in terms of overpriced but with pretty cabinets. You can get similar or better performance with flat tweeter speakers by HTD, Chane, and Emotiva brand new for a fraction of the ridiculous MSRP of MLs.

5. If you like the Klipsch sound, the smart thing to do is to get 3 pairs (use the 5th as your center, resell or store the 6th) of RP-160 from Crutchfield for $380 brand new, $10 return shipping for a seamless/identical soundstage. With only an 8ft listening distance they'd give you all the headroom and dynamics you could possibly want.

MSRP is an arbitrary, made-up, frickin' SCAM, don't you get it? It's like going to buy a new car and of course the sleazeball salesman is going to make a big deal that *just for today* you can get 20% off MSRP, which turns out to be still a thousand or more bucks more than what a more honest dealer would sell you the same car for if you had bothered to shop around.

I simply used MSRP as a quick way to signify retail price. Should I have just said retail? Maybe. But it is pretty obvious what I was getting at.

I honestly question everything you say, but thanks for the input...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,940 Posts
What are you even talking about? Reference something for **** sake. What brands or models that I listed are, "overhyped-brand-name speakers" IM NOT GOING NEW.
For example, the DT 9060 are not worth even HALF their MSRP even if bought new.

And just because the brand calls a model "reference" or some sleazebag boutique shop salesman calls a speaker "reference" that means diddly...they'll say anything to move their product, doh.

I own RP-150Ms... I've listened to tower speakers that are better.
OF COURSE the towers would sound better, since your RP-150s are either sub-less or running off that crappy JBL hand-me-down sub. That's an idiotic comparison. Having a decent sub in the comparison completely levels the playing field---especially for HT, where a $250 BIC PL200 will go down lower and louder than yes, some $30K towers. It's called PHYSICS. Not affected in the least by sales gimmicks.

What Onkyo... Are you okay?
Wrong brand, same difference. You said you currently have some passed down JBL system from your dad. Well, about 15 years ago I used to have a cheap JBL subwoofer myself, a Northridge 150, about $150 off eBay, claimed MSRP of $350. It was a useless POS.

I honestly question everything you say, but thanks for the input...
No problem...it's your money. Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,477 Posts
I honestly question everything you say, but thanks for the input...
you have received good advice .. take it.. don't take it.. it's all the same .. but if you went with something like ascend cbm170's (5 of them) and an entry level svs sub ($500 ) .. it's going to kick the holy crap outta anything you find on craigslist or at a showroom for $1200.. and i'd bet on it..;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,536 Posts
  • Goal: Build my HT setup out of used parts with good used discounts
  • Use: Movies/TV
  • Will you be adding a subwoofer? Yes, but to be determined later
  • Are you building a surround sound system? Ground up
  • How loud do you want to play? I live in an apartment, lol
  • How far will you be sitting from the speakers? Hm, 8ft I think.
  • Speaker Experience: 2.0 setup with Klipsch RP-150m on my desktop + random 10+ year old small speaker JBL system from Best Buy that was given to me by my dad, lol.

(Sorted by used prices)


Klipsch RP-280F - The cheapest one here by far. MSRP of $400/$350 per speaker used
KEF Q750 - $800 MSRP/$400 used
Definitive Technology BP-9060 - $830 MSRP/$440 used
MartinLogan Motion 60XT - $1000 MSRP/$600 used
KEF Q950 - $1000 MSRP/640 used
JBL Studio 590 - $1000 MSRP/740 used (although previous research shows $450-500 used, but also maybe not great at all? requires more research)
Paradigm Premier 800F - $1000 MSRP/780 used - Only ones I've listened to in person.
SVS Ultra Tower Speaker - $1000 MSRP
Revel F36 - $1000 MSRP
Bowers & Wilkins 603 - $1000 MSRP




Question: Any alternatives I should look at? Either MSRP of $1000 per speaker or just as good as that price tier?
Your MSRP for most of the used speakers is way too low. That aside if you can get ML60XT for $600 used that would be a terrific deal.

Also IMO the BP9060 for $440 each would be a great deal. Are you sure you listed the correct model number?

For HT the 9060s would have enough bass output to not need a sub (since you're in an apartment). They don't really have any response below the low 30hz range which would somewhat mitigate the potential annoyance of your neighbors as the lower frequencies penetrate walls and floors easier. And 80-90% of movie and music content resides in the 30hz and up range.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MUDCAT45

·
Registered
Joined
·
730 Posts
Plenty of discounted items here:

https://www.accessories4less.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0sf7toG55wIVUvDACh1pEApgEAAYASAAEgKJIPD_BwE
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
695 Posts
I have to jump in and support what Zorba is saying because I whole heartedly agree. Please don't limit yourself to used big brand speakers. The speakers you listed have some great characteristics and the list might just contain the speakers that are just right to your ears. Zorba gives you a very educated opinion that should strongly be considered. As you look at the responses you see two other responses that are also backing up his excellent advice.



That being said though it sounds as if you are absolutely dead set on you price category, getting a used set of speakers, and/or looking for recommendations based on MSRP. This is terribly limiting in your options. I suggest that you open your mind to the advice you are receiving here. MSRP is indeed a farce. I believe I can speak for every single person on this forum when I say no one pays MSRP. You could get a $2k pair for $1k if the timing is right with releases of newer models. I think you get the point.


I would strongly recommend you consider the ID options. The ability to easily listen at home in your own space, on your own equipment, and with your own listening material of choice is absolutely unbeatable. I'd be willing to bet that any one of us could take a lousy pair of speakers and make them shine like diamonds given the right equipment and salesman. It is critically important that you listen to speakers on your terms, not on the terms of a store and salesman who both are looking for an easy sale.



So, open your mind to some of the excellent advice you will get here and I'm sure you will find a fantastic deal on some great speakers!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
For a home theater only setup, the subwoofer is arguably the most important component and I'd recommend allocating $500ish+ of your budget towards a new sub rather than blowing it all on speakers. You don't really need overly high end speakers for a great sounding dedicated home theater setup but a weak sub will really hold the setup back.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,787 Posts
Any alternatives I should look at?
Yeah, send it to me, [email protected].
If that doesn't appeal, well, I was really blown away by Monitor Audio's Silver 300. Even Motorhead live didn't make those puppies cry. I also really liked the Wharfedale Linton, lovely sound for quite a nice price even with the matching stands.

As for subs and towers:
- Normally for home theater I'd agree a chunk of budget should go towards a really good sub.
- I like towers because a) only weirdo audiophiles ;) think speaker stands are attractive, and b) the frequency range overlap can lead to better transition and c) better midbass output. Some people seem to think that their giant 97" subwoofer will excuse their satellite speakers from putting out any bass at all, however *some* amount of upper bass will be output which requires excursion and cone area.
- Now sometimes you can move up a step in standmounts instead of a tower, though you also have to factor in the cost of nice stands which I'm finding is not so cheap necessarily.
- Anyway in your apartment situation I would probably want to do a near-field subwoofer, IF you listen from one spot. i.e. putting a subwoofer right smack behind your easy chair.

Speakers last a very long time, so yes, used can be a big bargain. IF the speaker is not like 20 years old, because design technology has indeed advanced. And IF something good is actually available near you-where are you located?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Your MSRP for most of the used speakers is way too low. That aside if you can get ML60XT for $600 used that would be a terrific deal.

Also IMO the BP9060 for $440 each would be a great deal. Are you sure you listed the correct model number?

For HT the 9060s would have enough bass output to not need a sub (since you're in an apartment). They don't really have any response below the low 30hz range which would somewhat mitigate the potential annoyance of your neighbors as the lower frequencies penetrate walls and floors easier. And 80-90% of movie and music content resides in the 30hz and up range.
Okay, maybe using MSRP was a bit much, but I really figured people would instantly get because the prices are low it meant retail. I merely used "MSRP" because its shorter than typing "Retail price" and saves room. I also can't find the edit button, but maybe its ad block related?

Regardless, the used prices are basically used on Amazon or other reputable sites. I could buy them at the prices I listed right now without hassle.



I have to jump in and support what Zorba is saying because I whole heartedly agree. Please don't limit yourself to used big brand speakers. The speakers you listed have some great characteristics and the list might just contain the speakers that are just right to your ears. Zorba gives you a very educated opinion that should strongly be considered. As you look at the responses you see two other responses that are also backing up his excellent advice.
Not really sure where I ever said I was limiting myself. Again, another reason I really don't value his posts so far. Besides the blind rage, actual complete non sense, etc. I'm LITERALLY asking for other suggestions. Literally the point. Its in the title. Of course the starting point has name brands. Where else would I start?

That being said though it sounds as if you are absolutely dead set on you price category, getting a used set of speakers, and/or looking for recommendations based on MSRP. This is terribly limiting in your options. I suggest that you open your mind to the advice you are receiving here. MSRP is indeed a farce. I believe I can speak for every single person on this forum when I say no one pays MSRP. You could get a $2k pair for $1k if the timing is right with releases of newer models. I think you get the point.
I am dead set on my price category... As well as anything that performs on the same level. As I literally said. Again, he and his blind rage of whatever derailed the actual topic.


I would strongly recommend you consider the ID options. The ability to easily listen at home in your own space, on your own equipment, and with your own listening material of choice is absolutely unbeatable. I'd be willing to bet that any one of us could take a lousy pair of speakers and make them shine like diamonds given the right equipment and salesman. It is critically important that you listen to speakers on your terms, not on the terms of a store and salesman who both are looking for an easy sale.
No idea what ID options is. Also, the local audio store does allow trial runs or whatever if I went that route, which I probably am not because I want value in used equipment.



So, open your mind to some of the excellent advice you will get here and I'm sure you will find a fantastic deal on some great speakers!
My mind is completely open. Again, literally the point of the thread. He just completely went off his rocker for no apparent reason.

For a home theater only setup, the subwoofer is arguably the most important component and I'd recommend allocating $500ish+ of your budget towards a new sub rather than blowing it all on speakers. You don't really need overly high end speakers for a great sounding dedicated home theater setup but a weak sub will really hold the setup back.
My speaker budget has no effect on my sub budget. Again. no effect. I'm very well aware my starting point for a new sub is $500 and probably some SVS one. But right now its a low priority due to apartment living, especially when I have what I call a usable sub already. Regardless if its "trash".

Yeah, send it to me, Satan666Paypal.Venmo.
If that doesn't appeal, well, I was really blown away by Monitor Audio's Silver 300. Even Motorhead live didn't make those puppies cry. I also really liked the Wharfedale Linton, lovely sound for quite a nice price even with the matching stands.

As for subs and towers:
- Normally for home theater I'd agree a chunk of budget should go towards a really good sub.
- I like towers because a) only weirdo audiophiles think speaker stands are attractive, and b) the frequency range overlap can lead to better transition and c) better midbass output. Some people seem to think that their giant 97" subwoofer will excuse their satellite speakers from putting out any bass at all, however *some* amount of upper bass will be output which requires excursion and cone area.
- Now sometimes you can move up a step in standmounts instead of a tower, though you also have to factor in the cost of nice stands which I'm finding is not so cheap necessarily.
- Anyway in your apartment situation I would probably want to do a near-field subwoofer, IF you listen from one spot. i.e. putting a subwoofer right smack behind your easy chair.

Speakers last a very long time, so yes, used can be a big bargain. IF the speaker is not like 20 years old, because design technology has indeed advanced. And IF something good is actually available near you-where are you located?
Thank god someone finally recommends something.

I'm also of the same opinion that limiting myself to bookshelf speakers is a mistake. even 5% music listening makes the BS choice a mistake. There's also much more room for error with floorstands and bass production.

I'm also not looking at models that are over 5 years old for the most part.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,266 Posts
In apt, excess booming will get you in trouble; Many folks rave about the Revel F36s that list for $2k new; scour the used market for 50% off. I have the highly touted RSL speedwoofer sub in another set-up; nice little mini/mouse that produces tight bass & not boomy

Good luck; take whatever advice you deem worthy in all the replies & make your own decision. And... Living in Apartment you do have to be careful
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
In apt, excess booming will get you in trouble; Many folks rave about the Revel F36s that list for $2k new; scour the used market for 50% off. I have the highly touted RSL speedwoofer sub in another set-up; nice little mini/mouse that produces tight bass & not boomy

Good luck; take whatever advice you deem worthy in all the replies & make your own decision. And... Living in Apartment you do have to be careful

Any suggestions on sites to find used gear?


So far I use amazon, ebay, google shopping, and facebook market. I know theres that one website for used audio gear, but it is a PIA to use.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,940 Posts
In apt, excess booming will get you in trouble; Living in Apartment you do have to be careful
I used to live in an apartment with such thin walls and floors/ceilings that you could easily hear neighbors (above, below, and next door) having sex or loud conversations. When I moved out, my neighbors were shocked to discover that among my possessions was a big ole 65lb subwoofer, which I never turned off. :)

So, I think that fear is a bit overblown. You just turn down the gain knob on the back. Too many people, esp. clueless newbies, tend to conflate home subs with the hideously boomy/exhibitionistic car subs that teenage boys like to inflict on innocent bystanders at stoplights.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
931 Posts
Any suggestions on sites to find used gear?


So far I use amazon, ebay, google shopping, and facebook market. I know there's that one website for used audio gear, but it is a PIA to use.
As far as Revels go most dealers will give you a notable discount off of retail. I got my M16s and F35s brand new for 60% and 50% off retail, respectively.

For used sites you've hit the main ones, with audiogon and usaudiomart another couple of options.
 
1 - 20 of 114 Posts
Top