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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I defer to the experts on the board to help fill in the blanks for the new home theater I've just completed in my basement:




It's set up for a 7.1 system and if I was able to post the photo, you'll see that the front, center and sub all have niches for them to avoid taking up floor space. Depending on the speaker, I may or may not cover the niches with that mesh speaker material that grilles are made of.


I need your help to suggest speakers (and a receiver too, if you're so kind) to power our soon to be theater. The plan is to get the Epson 6100 1080p projector and couple it with the existing surrounds (speakercraft aim 8 one) and our directv HD DVR, XBOX/HD-DVD and PS3 with the setup.


I looked at the local shop and was interested in the Klipsch WF34s. I read about the WF35s, but was wondering if you might have other suggestions, or if there are other things I should consider. It took over an hour before anyone asked if I needed help at the store, and they weren't too attentive to helping me. So I turn to you. Suggestions?
 

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Budget? Size restrictions? etc. etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'd like to get some quality speakers for the L/R front, center and sub and would like to stay around the $2500 mark. Our family will primarily use this for a theater and gaming, with occasional music (lesser priority).


As mentioned, I had my eye on klipsch WF34s or WF35s, but am looking for other alternatives. I don't know if my picture was able to be linked into the original post I made above, but if it didn't, there are speaker niches that are intended to hide the floorstanding speakers, center channel and subwoofer around the screen rather than being on the floor. The dimensions for the niches are:


left & right speaker cutouts: 50" X 16" X 20 (H X W X D)

center speaker: 15" X 25" X 20" (H X W X D)

subwoofer: 20" tall with 24"X 24"


I do already have 4 surround/presence speakers as mentioned above (speakercraft aim 8 one - in ceiling). I'll try to link to the photos of the space again if it helps.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink






Thanks if anyone has some suggestions.



- Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I just thought of one more thing - since I'll be placing the speakers within these enclosures, do I need to avoid bipolar firing speakers or are there other issues I've introduced by doing this? Thanks again.


- Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayhem13 /forum/post/15637316


May i asked who designed the layout/space?

The lead designer at our basement finishing company came up with the use for our space. She took our desire of having a theater in a multi-use space. I asked her to put something together knowing that I didn't want in wall speakers, but rather floorstanding speakers that could be put out of the way.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rktcyntst /forum/post/15637802


The lead designer at our basement finishing company came up with the use for our space. She took our desire of having a theater in a multi-use space. I asked her to put something together knowing that I didn't want in wall speakers, but rather floorstanding speakers that could be put out of the way.

It looks very nice, I'm sure you guys are going to enjoy it.


One thing I do notice, and I'm sure others are just waiting to point it out, is the enclosure for the speakers. Many are going to say this is less than ideal, and I'm sure it is (I'm speaking of the "cutouts" you have to place speakers in). Just don't let them convince you that you won't be able to fully enjoy your space using them. It may hinder the sound quality somewhat, but if you pick speakers you like, I'm sure it will still sound great to you.


I will say though, that placing speakers in those holes, you'll probably want to avoid rear ported speakers. The best way to narrow down your speaker search is to go out and listen to some. Make notes of one's you like, and what you like about them, then come back and discuss that.


You can either go with B&M speakers (in stores) or ID speakers (internet only). The advantage to B&M is that you can more easily listen to them before buying. The disadvantage is that (in theory at least), your getting less speaker for your money, because your paying the middle man to keep his store open.


I can't really comment on the Klipsch myself, I've only listened to a couple of them and I didn't really care for them myself. But I will ask, did you listen to them yourself? Did you like them over other speakers? If so, why? I'm not sure there are any similar speakers to Klipsch that would be any better, but if we know what you like or don't like about speakers, it's much easier to suggest something.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rktcyntst /forum/post/15591076


Depending on the speaker, I may or may not cover the niches with that mesh speaker material that grilles are made of.

If I may, I'll make a few suggestions based on my research here as well as my personal preferences.


First, I believe the best way to handle the sound issues that may arise due to using enclosures for your speakers would be to insulate the inside enclosure walls with sound deadening material. I'm not 100% sure about that, perhaps someone will correct me if I'm wrong. The idea is that it will help minimize the reflections going on inside that enclosure, which I believe will inevitably cause peaks and valleys in your sound.


Second (and this is mostly personal preference), I would paint the entire screen wall black, and use speaker grill cloth to cover the entire screen wall (including your speaker cutouts), except of course the cutout where the screen goes. This will give a nice black background for your picture to "pop" out of, as well as completely hide the speakers. Check out the home theater pics to get an idea of what I'm talking about, and what it looks like.


Anyhow, you have a really awesome looking space and I'm sure you'll enjoy it no matter what equipment you end up with, congrats!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
varrius,


thanks for the compliments - we're very pleased with the way it turned out!


I realized that the sound would probably get 'dorked up' to some extent and that I'd be introducing issues with the speaker holes to get speakers and the sub off the floor, but it was a compromise to getting the other half to buy off on even having a theater! Otherwise, I'd have built a dedicated theater room with 'ideal' dimensions and attributes. Oh well.


But that was an easy concession to make and I figured that I could find something to suit my taste and budget - I may have made the mistake in assuming that floor standing speakers are better than in wall.


As far as the Klipsch speakers, I did hear them demo'd using a BD concert and I liked the way vocals, guitar and overall sound was clear and easy to distinguish. It sounded like I was at the concert! I don't know to describe it, but it sounded "clean". The other speakers I heard sounded like everything was at the same level - the vocals and music didn't see to pop out at me like the klipsch did.


You mentioned that you didn't really care for them. May I ask what you use? It might give me another idea of what to look for.


I guess I'm looking for something to give me that I'm sitting there feeling when watching concerts or listening to music, but that can also perform as a theater. That's probably too much to ask for.


I'd prefer to go to a B&M place to test, and I'm planning on going to a specialty store to check out B&W speakers they have.


I currently have a mix of def tech pro tower 400s, an infinity center channel and a klipsch sub connected to a Yam RXV795 that I've pieced together over the years. I considered moving what I currently have downstairs, but would like to 'do this right'.


Thanks for the input!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rktcyntst /forum/post/15637802


The lead designer at our basement finishing company came up with the use for our space. She took our desire of having a theater in a multi-use space. I asked her to put something together knowing that I didn't want in wall speakers, but rather floorstanding speakers that could be put out of the way.

I'm guessing "she" was an interior designer and not a home theater designer. If she were an HT designer, she would have suggested you pick out speakers *before* you design the recesses for them.
As it is, you've eliminated a vast number of speaker possibilities. You can't use anything rear-, side-, or bottom-ported, or anything bipolar/omnipolar. You've limited yourself to speakers that fit your dimensions, and you should look for speakers with built in boundary compensation to adjust (somewhat) for the diffraction and SBIR you'll inevitably get by installing them in those recesses.


Atlantic Technology 6200e's have high and low frequency compensation controls. They would fit your recesses and your budget, (if you buy them without the optional pedestals.):
http://www.atlantictechnology.com/de...asp?NodeId=128

However, it's not easy to get an audition of these speakers. They are primarily sold through custom installers who don't have "showrooms". Check the "Dealer Locater" on their website to see if there are any installers in your area. They are also available through the AV Science forum with a 30-day no-hassle return policy. Search for username Jason Turk. He can help you out.


If you get these, I suggest you mount a shelf at the appropriate height to place the tweeters at ear level. Then stuff the remaining space with sound absorption material and cover the whole recess with speaker grill cloth.


For the sub, you are limited to front driver/front ported subs. Do not use any multi-driver subs or subs with rear-firing ports. A downfiring sub might work, but it would not be my first choice. SVS, Hsu, ED and Epik all make front firing/front ported subs. See the subwoofer forum for more information.


When selecting a receiver, look for one with Audyssey room correction built in. This software will help lessen the effect of placing your speakers in the wall:
http://www.audyssey.com/products/index.html


Craig
 

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I have some suggestions to help with your somewhat difficult layout. It will involve the use of an acoustically transparent screen which will help with speaker placement and screen contrast. I imagine the plan called for the screen to be inside the recess on the wall? If so, the sides of the recess are going to be a problem,reflecting light back onto the screen and washing out the color and contrast. the option would be to place an AT screen over the recess and the L/C/R speakers behind the screen or keep the screen the way it's setup and paint the inside of the recess a dark color. Is using an AT screen an option for you?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
craig

Thanks for the input and the great suggestions! I'll look into the options you've presented as well as the correction SW you pointed out. It looks like Denon has the largest selection.


You've helped me narrow down the options as I probably would have ended up being talked into something that sounds fancy like bipolar/omipolar, etc when I need to avoid those things.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
mayhem13,


your idea is interesting - I was planning on painting the interior of the recess a black color or covering with a black felt to minimize reflections.


But if I were to use a acoustically transparent screen, I could rig some shelving to place the center left and right behind the screen. Wouldn't this have a similar effect as placing them in the recess since it's still in an enclose, albeit a large one?


I don't know if the wife would go for that - she like the way the room looks now.


I guess the one thing I have going for me is that my system now isn't the best, so I won't really know what I'm missing. This also makes me think that perhaps I shouldn't dump too much money in the audio since I'll be placing them the way I am. Maybe it's time to concentrate on the video side!


Thanks.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rktcyntst /forum/post/15642669


mayhem13,


your idea is interesting -

Actually, it's an excellent idea. The only downside is deciding what to do with those recesses. I suppose you could place some decorative stuff in there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rktcyntst /forum/post/15642669


I was planning on painting the interior of the recess a black color or covering with a black felt to minimize reflections.


But if I were to use a acoustically transparent screen, I could rig some shelving to place the center left and right behind the screen. Wouldn't this have a similar effect as placing them in the recess since it's still in an enclose, albeit a large one?

Yes, it will affect the sound, but not nearly as much as the speaker recesses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rktcyntst /forum/post/15642669


I don't know if the wife would go for that - she like the way the room looks now.

Tell her that it gives her another chance to "decorate".

Quote:
Originally Posted by rktcyntst /forum/post/15642669


I guess the one thing I have going for me is that my system now isn't the best, so I won't really know what I'm missing. This also makes me think that perhaps I shouldn't dump too much money in the audio since I'll be placing them the way I am.

Incorrect logic.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rktcyntst /forum/post/15642669


Maybe it's time to concentrate on the video side!

NO... No... No... Big picture without big sound has much less "WOW!" Optimize what you can now. Speakers behind an AT screen would be a *much* better option than your current arrangement. Find a way to make it work and you'll be much more satisfied down the road.


In particular, the center speaker placement will be hugely better than placing it below the screen and so close to the floor. Also, you can use 3 identical front speakers instead of a compromised horizontal CC:
http://www.audioholics.com/education...peaker-designs


From virtually every standpoint, speakers behind an AT screen will be MUCH better than speakers badly installed in those recesses.


Craig
 

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Hey Ry, i agree wih craig (obviously). Three identical MTM speakers inside the reccess would be the perfect solution. No need for stands of any kind as placing them on the bottom of the recess will place the tweeters at ear level. DO NOT turn the center on it's side as the vertical alignment is far superior to the horizontal. You have ample room for the three to image properly. Position them equally from each other and the sides of the niche.

As for something for the already made recesses, the center one could get a set of doors as well as the sides for DVD/CD/LP storage. You could do built in subs and cover them with framed grilles for a clean look. The two side niches are of ample volume to make some killer DIY subwoofers if you're interested.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rktcyntst /forum/post/15639126


As far as the Klipsch speakers, I did hear them demo'd using a BD concert and I liked the way vocals, guitar and overall sound was clear and easy to distinguish. It sounded like I was at the concert! I don't know to describe it, but it sounded "clean". The other speakers I heard sounded like everything was at the same level - the vocals and music didn't see to pop out at me like the klipsch did.


You mentioned that you didn't really care for them. May I ask what you use? It might give me another idea of what to look for.

To be honest, I'm not sure which Klipsch speakers I demo'd, but I know they were in the $500-$1000 range, and they were towers. Perhaps they have a higher model line which sounds better, I really don't know. There wasn't anything specifically that I didn't like about them, they just didn't "wow" me with detail and clarity.


I am still in the process of getting my HT rigged out. I just recently received my Aperion 6T's, and so far I'm pleased with them. However, if you like the Klipsch sound I'm not so sure Aperion's would be the best for you. Just because I like one thing doesn't mean you will. If you like Klipsch the best after listening to as many speakers as you can, then by all means go with them.


I also agree with the others that I think it would be a mistake to "blow off" your sound because you think it can't be good. There have been some good suggestions for you already on ways to make it a great sounding theater. I'm of the opinion also that big sound needs to go with a big picture. You have the opportunity to create an awesome theater, I say go for it!
 

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Front ported speakers like the KEF iQ line would be an option for you. They are running out as they are being replaced with the iQx0 line.


For the front three, go to accessories4less for a pair of iQ9 ($850) and an iQ6 ($450).


For the other 4 go to Vanns and either get 2 pair of iQ3 ($250/pr) or 4 iQ5 ($200ea).


You may be able to find a dealer in your area to go listen to them; they may or may not match these online prices.


They won't last long. The iQ6 and iQ7 and iQ9 are all gone from Vanns.
 
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