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The more I read on this the more confused I get. :)


Ok I'm not looking for the 'perfect screen' -I'm just looking for 2 of the best diy-paint screen solutions out there. I have had a hard time deciding on a solution -cause I know in the end that what might be the perfect solution for somebody -might not suit my purposes. Hands-on experience will always win. But I don't want to keep on experimenting - I want a good solution and keep it at least for a few years -I might as well start out with some help from reading all the incredible info I can find in here.


Anyway I have decided to go for a 'double screen'. I want to paint a mdf board on both sides with different paint. I will have the chance to test/use these two screens then, in full size -and maybe use one i brighter light situations. And the other in more subdued lighting. Anyway it will be nice to have the chance to choose one of the two as my preference in the envoirement I will use it in most af the time. I'm not looking for 2 VERY different solutions. Just 2 good ones -with one having maybe slightly more gain-value than the other.


I originally decided for goo digital grey top/basecoat as being on one side. I think I'll still go with that. I don't know if the gain I'll get here is enough for my taste. But I want to try out a grey screen and goo does seem to have some satisfied customers.


I have been reading just a little on mmud. And if I understand correctly I would be able to get gain relative to the basecoat you would use? This would maybe be a good solution for the other side of the board? As I live in Denmark I don't know where to get the paint for it. We don't have Home Depot here -and the Behr paint I don't know where to buy. On their website nothing is mentioned about international resellers?


I have also looked on a 'Liquiscreen' solution. But I can't seem to find much info on that... It does seem to be well reviewed the places I saw it mentioned....


Any recommendations will be appreciated very much


:)
 

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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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niknik,

First of, let me say I'm sorry for seeming to ignore your PM. I had just responded to a thread I thought was yours before I sent your PM'd reply.


This effort should correct that, however.



Quote:
Originally Posted by niknik
The more I read on this the more confused I get. :)

Well, we're off to a good start, aren't we now?


Ok I'm not looking for the 'perfect screen' -I'm just looking for 2 of the best diy-paint screen solutions out there. - I want a good solution and keep it at least for a few years -I might as well start out with some help from reading all the incredible info I can find in here.



I spoke too soon! Two of the best "Painted on a Board" DIY solutions? Gee! So many to choose from! Where do I start?
:rolleyes: :p


Anyway I have decided to go for a 'double screen'. I want to paint a mdf board on both sides with different paint. I will have the chance to test/use these two screens then, in full size -and maybe use one i brighter light situations. And the other in more subdued lighting. Anyway it will be nice to have the chance to choose one of the two as my preference in the envoirement I will use it in most af the time. I'm not looking for 2 VERY different solutions. Just 2 good ones -with one having maybe slightly more gain-value than the other.

Ok. Straight up. There is no "Magic Bullet" DIY screen paint, or combo of paint/applications that will give you "Bright Light" or even high "Ambient Light" performance without an accompanying 'higher than normal" lumen output. Lack of CR can be accomodated for through screen tint and other factors, but since screens are essentially "Passive", and the effects they do produce (or the images they do alter) are wholly dependent on what they can do with what light output is available to them "at the screen's surface". The more lumens you have to work with, the better. It's no stretch to realizes thats why presentation PJs are primarily LCDs, with 2500 lumens+, and whose CRs are usually boosted by that excess of lumens hitting a 'HCCV' type Grey/Silver screen.


Of course that does not mean that some, or even a great deal of improvement cannot be accopmlished as far as "true Ambient light" viewing ability is concerned.

But what is "true Ambient light" ?


In my reasoning, it's a room with Can lights, or perimeter lights (lamps) on low, or window shades or curtains drawn. It is most assuredly NOT sunbeams streaming across the room, or falling directly on the screen. Nor is it a Lamp or Can light whose cone of light influence washes directly on the screen.
:mad:


I originally decided for goo digital grey top/basecoat as being on one side. I think I'll still go with that. I don't know if the gain I'll get here is enough for my taste. But I want to try out a grey screen and goo does seem to have some satisfied customers.

Yes it does, but it also comes with a price that will make you consider if you could have done better, or even "as good" for much leass. It is not really a DIY application, excxepting the part where you apply it yourself. It's a "Product", and inasmuch since there IS a profit motive in the marketing of the same, you cannot expect to realize the distinct and pleasurable advantage of being able to say; "Wow, I did this, with regularly available paint for under half of what I thought it would cost!"


And........, most importantly, in your location, being somewhat removed from the American Continent, your costs will be even higher. :( I really think you can do as well in many cases, and decidely better in others if you are willing to consider a work ethic that is no real decernable increase in effort than a multi layer Mfg Paint application like Goo itself requires.



I have been reading just a little on mmud. And if I understand correctly I would be able to get gain relative to the basecoat you would use? This would maybe be a good solution for the other side of the board? As I live in Denmark I don't know where to get the paint for it. We don't have Home Depot here -and the Behr paint I don't know where to buy. On their website nothing is mentioned about international resellers?

No, but don't let that stop you. I reqularly obtain and ship the necessary ingrediants for any MMud mix I advocate, and do so "at cost only" to accomodate those who do not have access to HD-Behr paints, so as to provide willing victims the means to more accurately acheive the results they see posted, and/or read as discribed. Since the only real compitition as far as a Screen paint that MMud has, IMO, are the Goo products, and they cost a bundle, +Shipping to any location, I have yet to run into a situation or location anywhere on the Planet that the same end results could not be had or exceeded for 1/2 or less the total costs assimulated by going "Goo".


I have also looked on a 'Liquiscreen' solution. But I can't seem to find much info on that... It does seem to be well reviewed the places I saw it mentioned....


..yes, in the few places that it has been mentioned, it seems to be considered a "doable & acceptable" option, but it's also on the order of twice or more the expense of even Goo, and all it really is is a Paint that can also be duplicated closely enough to make all that extra expense horribly redundant.


Any recommendations will be appreciated very much


:)
Well, so far all this seems to have been is dissertation on what NOT to spend too much money on. Doing a "Goo anything" will deliver results you can most assuredly be happy with, make no mistake. Oh, you might have to forgo that Holiday to Belize this season, but being cooped up in the house in Winter is a national pastime in the Nordic countries anyway. :D It won't be so bad if your busy watching a Movie first on one side of your dual screen, than flipping it over to re-watch it again. :p More on "Flippin' " later when your actually making the screen. You'll need a Trim design that will both allow you to handle the screen repeatedly without smudgin' the finish, but allow the "not watched rear side" to stand off the wall so as not to get marred.


So here's my recommendation, in a abbreviated form. (...yeah..., I can do that, :rolleyes: ) If you care to consider any or all of whats to come, PM me for specific detailed advice, and assistance on obtaining what you need either locally or via FedEx. I've recently shipped a total of 4 - 1/2 US gallons of MMud-SE to the UK & Ireland, so don't worry about being the first to set any precedents.


Side one:

MMud-SE

1:1:1 MississippiMud with (?) amount of Behr Silver Metallic added dependent on what type of PJ you have. A simple application that is as good as such ever gets, and that can easily be adjusted to work well with almost any PJ.


Side two:

SM/MM

A pure coating of Silver Metallic overlaid by a "White" 1:1:1: MMud mix. This combo is generally accepted to be about the most desirable DIY screen you can aspire to, with only the cautionary advice that applying SM is much easier if sprayed than rolled. Ditto with the MMud Top Coat, but really not because you cannot roll it on, but because it is easier and more exacting a process to spray, allowing you to more accurately judge just how thick your Top Coat is going on with each layer.


BTW, as a caveat to Goo, sprayin' that stuff is also highly advisable. Roller marks are among the chief and "almost" the ONLY real complaint that comes from Goo Screen owners, but their occurrence is not so much the fault of the product as much as it's the lack of skill of the 'doer'. They take pains to provide instruction on how to avoid such crappeola. But..., a mitigating factor is that the Goo Top Coats are very much more translucent than MMud, so that helps aggravate the potential for getting roller marks if one does not practice their rolling technique prior to applying the paint. There's a real catch to that, however; you just cannot practice with such an expensive paint as Goo when it comes in such a small amount with which to use for the Screen itself, so therein lies another issue altogether. Those "Issues" are what helped make MMud a necessity and a reality as far as my creating it is concerned. Simple as Mud, clear as a Bell to most.


Next up, either on this thread of yours or via PM, I need to know what PJ you have, or are considering, and how big a screen your shooting for. With that, I can stick my neck out across the Chopping Block and make an exacting recommendation.

:eek:
 

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WOW!


Thanks MississippiMan -I got more information than I bargained for here! :)


Although it's a long read and therefore one would think I'd be REALLY confused now ;) -it's actually clearing things up for me. I mean it had to come -or I would be a wasted soul :p


I can see I forgot some basic information in my haste.... :


-I just bought an Optoma H27. That's the PJ gonna be used....


-My screensize will be about 80" diagonal and the viewing distance about 11feet (I have a chance for a different setup -but this is what I am gonna use first)


-I will watch 60% dvd's and 40% TV -I want to optimize my setup for dvd's. TV will be mostly as 'background noise'. I never watch movies with sunlight going through the windows or light hidding the screen directly.



I am curious to try out both the goo and a 'real' DIY-solution. So painting the screen on both sides is rather perfect for me. And I would find it quite interesting to compare the two -mud/goo... Cost is an issue but not the main factor. I originally decided for a relatively expensive screen -so I don't mind spending the extra you hand out for a goo-solution. But I wont go for two sides of goo. I'm not sure what kind of goo I should go with. I've been recommended 'digital grey' by the goo-people them selves. But the final decision will also depend on what kind of paint there will go on the other side....


I guess the other side will then be MMud-SE or SM/MM with the latter being the most exotic one -if I understand you correctly?


That you offer to help out with maybe necessary shipping is very very generous of you!


I will spray the paint I'm gonna use -probably on mdf. I just found a guy that I can borrow a paintgun from. It's a wagner w 600 - I don't know how good it is but the guy I'm borrowing it from got a good result with goo himself. So that's enough for me :)


thx again!

Niklas
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by niknik
WOW!


Thanks MississippiMan -I got more information than I bargained for here! :)

That's the risk ya take!


I can see I forgot some basic information in my haste.... :


-I just bought an Optoma H27. That's the PJ gonna be used....

Ok! 850 Lumens w/2500:1 CR. That's almost enough to go on.


-My screensize will be about 80" diagonal and the viewing distance about 11feet (I have a chance for a different setup -but this is what I am gonna use first)


-I will watch 60% dvd's and 40% TV. I never watch movies with sunlight going through the windows or light hidding the screen directly.

That makes ir even easier to accomplish a dual screen application.



I am curious to try out both the goo and a 'real' DIY-solution. So painting the screen on both sides is rather perfect for me. And I would find it quite interesting to compare the two -mud/goo... Cost is an issue but not the main factor. I originally decided for a relatively expensive screen -so I don't mind spending the extra you hand out for a goo-solution. But I wont go for two sides of goo. I'm not sure what kind of goo I should go with. I've been recommended 'digital grey' by the goo-people them selves. But the final decision will also depend on what kind of paint there will go on the other side....

Your choice of Goo for one side won't leave you a unhappy Camper by any means. Comparisons notwithstanding, it's a proven winner in the judgements of a very many people all over. Cost notwithstanding, you do have your screen size, or the lack thereof, working in your favor. You can now at least parctice using a thinned out version of MMud, and then having that under your belt, and by following Goo's own instructions "To The Letter", you should then be able to roll your Goo with confidence, and the assurance you will indeed have enough to spare should any re-work be needed. It should be understood by you and all that I have nothing against, nor any bone to pick with Goo products, save the same "bones' anyone else might have concerning costs and application concerns for screen that exceed 107" to 110" and beyond.


I guess the other side will then be MMud-SE or SM/MM with the latter being the most exotic one -if I understand you correctly?

Yes you do, unfortunately. But nothing is at all intractable, it only demands more care and though than dumping paint into a tray and lathering up a roller and hitting the wall.. In that, MMud & Goo both share that trait.


That you offer to help out with maybe necessary shipping is very very generous of you!

Admittedly, it's not always easy, or convienent. But it is just about the only way that some will ever get the opportunity to try something others have no difficulty doing (...through easy, local acquisition of materials.) In keeping with the rules around here, the cost of the materials are your cost, ditto the shipping costs. You get a copy of the sales slip and the shipping receipt. My time is gratis. Your just expected to ante up a post or thread describing your experience, Pro or Con, so as to help further the DIY genre along. In the long run, and specifically to you, it makes no difference what works best, just as long as something works better than you hoped for. You seem to be setting the stage for at least a 95% chance of creating a Draw Dropping dual screen. And a 100% assurance at least on side will be all that you would ever need in any case.


Now, don't come back and ask my opinion as to which one I expect that to be! :p

Thats for you to decide upon completion, and after 3-4 weeks curing time for both the paints as well. Oh you'll be able to see distinct differences from the get-go, but there will also be distinct improvements over time for both as well.


I will spray the paint I'm gonna use -probably on mdf. I just found a guy that I can borrow a paintgun from. It's a wagner w 600 - I don't know how good it is but the guy I'm borrowing it from got a good result with goo himself. So that's enough for me :)


thx again!

Niklas
I'd like to converse directly via email with that fellow, and ascertain how he accomplishes such. (No speakin Ze English? I have a Norse langage program..) I'm sure the possibility exists for MMud-SE and Goo, but as for the Super Thick and Goopy Silver Metallic? Not a chance in Hades is my opinion. But since I've never been to Hades, there just might be some screens down there with SM coats that came from the tip of a Wagner. Probably where they got sent to..., either there, or purgatory. :D


Awwww, all kidding aside, to achieve a glassy smooth texture, the air to paint to pressure ratios have to be exacting and constant. Most Wagners are "Dumpers' in that they apply a tremendous amount of paint very quickly, necessitating the rapid "fanning" of an area. This might allow for some even paint application, but it will also create a fuzzy, or even sandpaper rough texture.


One again, practice..............with BOTH paints. Strain both paints after a vigorous mixing regimen. Then Strain again if you wait longer than 2 hours between coats. Clumps can and do form, especially in MMud-ES and SM
 

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Niklas One thing I would reconsider is ..... I would not try to paint two screens on one piece of mdf . Painting both sides while trying to preserve the other finished side will be more of a pain than it is worth, not to mention it would be a bummer to ruin your nice goo side while you were putting mud on the other side :) just teasing MM


I would paint two separate screens! I think this would make it easier for mounting and framing the screen as well.

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" you might have to forgo that Holiday to Belize this season,"


Funny quote MM If a the cost of goo breaks a vacation then it must be one heck of a cheap vacation .



niknik

I would look at the finished shipping costs of both paints before you agree on anything


I would be surprised if there was more than fifty bucks difference between the two shipped products .


Shipping might be the killer here !! here is a recent quote for some shipping from MM to NZ


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MM quote


"I recently sent a 3 quart MMUd-SE mix to a fellow advocate in NZ


It cost $ 114.00 Frieght / Duties and that was FedEx Intnl. Economy


1 qt WOP, shipped from anywhere east of Hawaii will still be a hit. I have a IS Dealer on Maui who can get some at HD and ship from that location. Nowhere else, or from any other source, will the situation work out to less expense. "

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I got a quote to send a package of two quarts to a fellow diy advocate in NZ and it was only 31 bucks CANADIAN so shipping can vary widely .



Bruce
 
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