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Discussion Starter #1
I have an 11-year old Pioneer Elite Rear Projection 55" unit. It's a been a great unit, but it's time to update. I especially love the wide viewing angle and the absolute non-existence of glare.


I've been looking at new rear projection units, but I'm mostly dissatisfied because most of them seem to have extreme glare problems. It blows my mind that most of the top-of-the-line units all have finishes that cause extreme glare in all but the most perfect lighting situations.


The only unit that is close to meeting my needs (from a glare-perspective) with the quality I expect is the Sony 60" Grand Wega KF-60WE610 (about $4K). This unit does not have glare problems, similar to my old Pioneer.


The supposedly better quality unit, the 60" XBR Grand Wega KDF-60XBR950 (about $7K). It is extremely glare-ridden (shiny finish vs. matte finish).


Two questions for you experts:


1) What's the deal with most manufacturers using such high-gloss finishes on the screens that it reflects everything in the room. Am I the only one that cares about this?


2) What units (that are in the same league -- or better) on the market today don't have this problem.


3) What do you think of the KF-60WE610?


Beyond glare, I'm looking for:

- 1280 x 768 or greater

- 60" to 70"

- DVI with HDCP input

- 16:9

- LCD or DLP

- Component Video (Y/Pb/Pr) Inputs (1080i, 720p, 480p, 1480i)

- Composite Inputs

- S Video Inputs

- DVI-HDTV Input with HDCP

- i.Link® Interface


I'll be using with:

- High-end PC (ATI 9800 XT DVI output)

- TiVo

- Progressive scan (component, maybe DVI someday) DVD


Thanks for help in advance.


Greg
 

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You must not have seen the Samsung DLP. They have a 56" an 61" and the screen has the least amount of glare of the current batch of RPTV's out there now. They are also in the price range (keep in mind that we only discus MSRP here) that you mentioned. Since they dont have internal HD tuners like the XBR950's they dont have the i-link. If you are not planning to record with a DVHS or PRV machine its a non-isue


Good luck in your search and welcome to AVS!

Barry
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Barry:


Thanks so much for the response. I assume you are speaking of the 61" HLN617W Samsung. Yeah, the i.Link isn't an issue.


The salesperson at Fry's wasn't terribly helpful. I may have seen it, but I wasn't looking for it. If I did see it, it looked a bit dimmer than the Sony KF-60WE610.


A couple of questions about the Samsung.


1) Does the Samsung DVI connection support HDCP?

2) I assume you must be recommending the Samsung. Is it a solid product?

3) How's the picture quality for:

- Computer

- Standard Broadcast TV

- DVD


Thanks for any additional help. I'll head down to a store and take a look at it too.


Thanks again.


Greg
 

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You are not the only one that has a major problem with glare. I have been complaining about glare for a while here. People are aware of it, but we do have to keep in mind that in a bright lit showroom you will see alot of glare with Plasmas, rrear projection CRT, and even direct view TV. It will not be nearly the problem you see in the stores at home, unless your room is bright. That said, the lack of glare was a positive when I purchased the KF-50WE610.


The Sony Grand Wega (KF-60WE610 is the non-XBR 60"), Hitachi, and Panasonic do not have much glare, since there is a antireflection layer on their screens. This does introduce what I call the Silk Screen Effect. In lightly colored scenes it looks as if the image is behind a silk curtain or a veil. Its not always visible but it does detract a little bit from the smoothness of the picture. It does help reduce the glare and is good if you like to watch with lights on, as I do.


If you really want an anti-glare TV, the Sony WE610's, Hitachi, and the Samsung DLP's are the most popular. The issue with the LCD TV's like the Sony and the Hitachi are the lack of good contrast. Its less of an issue if you like to watch with lights on as do I. With the DLP's, it is the rainbow problem with DLP, lack of good picture with standard cable/satellite channels, dithering or distortion of picture during motion/camera panning. The Sony is outstanding in its handling of standard channels. There has been a special problem with Sony in that some of their lamps are faulty and many sets have not turned on after a few weeks to months (GWIII Buzz thread).


The best advice I can give is that which I myself have followed. Do not rush out and buy something. Spend at least a week or two, preferably a month, read the threads here, interact, then buy the set. If you are happy with CRT, I would not necessarily count it out, either, if you do not mind the large footprint. I recently saw the finest rear projection picture I have ever seen at a Tweeter, it was a big fat Pioneer Elite CRT. It was smooth as silk, vibrant, detailed, but its just too large for my taste.


I wish you well.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks Dr Mark for the great feedback.


I'm partial to the smaller footprint of the LCDs and DLPs.


I'm very interested in how the Samsung DLP handles 'standard' channels compared to the Sony. I'll go try them side-by-side and see.


On the rainbow effect from Samsung, do people find that distracting in a dimly lit room or is that a nit pick?


What do others think?


Thanks,


Greg
 

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GWIII are not the best displays for a HTPC right now. The Sony DVI input expects a EIA-861 (video standard) feed, not the PC standard (there are two display groups with their own standards)


Currently ATI displays do not support EIA-861, (although that might change, email ati and ask)


Samsung DLP's support PC-DVI, but I don't know if they support EIA-861, which should be the standard with new dvi video products. I know Samsung DVI enabled dvd players do not support EIA-861, so they only work with PC-DVI devices.


If HDTV content supplers enable copy protection, this is supported by DVI-861, but not PC-DVI.


While DVI-861 will display output from a PC-DVI devive (is a matching resolution and feq, is picked), there will be a black crush due to incompatiable color maps.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Bruce, great post.


I didn't know the distinction between PC-DVI and EIA-861.


Samsung says they support HDCP, doesn't that imply they also support EIA-861?


What makes you confident they support PC-DVI?


They have a PC input (which I assume is VGA), maybe that's where they support PC usage?


Anyone have confirming information?


Greg
 

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Sony is also a content provider so they don't support people connecting computers to their TV's. They even provide a card reader that only works for their stick cards. Some have made PC connections work, but it's not plug and play.


Samsung touts all digital displays. They don't care what you watch on it.

I know DLP owners are using their DVI connections for set top boxes (cable &Sat)


I suggest seaching for each Set and the connection you want to make as this has all been discussed extensively.
 

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Quote:
I'm very interested in how the Samsung DLP handles 'standard' channels compared to the Sony. I'll go try them side-by-side and see.
I've spend a little time watching SD on Sony, and didn't notice that it was too much better than the Sammy. I have an HLN617W, and I typically watch SD using analog cable, which looks much better than SD through the Comcast Motorola 5100/component connection (I use the 5100 only for HD and the digital only channels). I think SD on the Sammy with analog input is almost as good as on the Sony with a Motorola, from which you could infer that the Sony with an analog input might be even better, but I haven't seen this setup. Just my opinion, though.

Quote:
On the rainbow effect from Samsung, do people find that distracting in a dimly lit room or is that a nit pick?
Many people do not see rainbows at all. Although I would not recommend you look for them, it probably would be a good idea to spend some time watching a DLP to see if you're susceptible. They typically show up in scenes with very high contrast, but it also has to do with how you're looking at them. Of the people that do see them, some say they get physically sick, others (like me) consider them annoying, but livable. I think they are more prevalent in a dimly lit room, but it may also be a function of how tired your eyes are, etc.

Without actually looking for rainbows, one test of your susceptibility MAY be your reaction to watching a computer monitor set to 60 Hz refresh rate under fluorescent lights. This really bothers me, and I see rainbows. It does not bother my wife, and she doesn't see them. Hardly scientific, but it could be an indicator. Or not.


I think you've already received a lot of good advice on this thread, and are on the right track whatever you choose. You should definitely look for posts by Arun Gupta; he has several good DLP threads linked to his signature. One of those may help with the DVI/HDCP questions you have. Good luck.
 
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