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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, you may have come across this:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=251948


you'll notice I have the Runco 980 Ultra and I was considering the G90. This turned out to be a 1292, though.


So now I've seen the machines personally, and I'd like to know which are the main differences between the 1292 and the 2 Barcos. I already know the Sony sounds like a hurricane, and the 1609 doesn't have a continuous scanning range (ie, it goes in 3 steps, ~15KHz, ~32KHz and ~61 KHz).


Which one would you choose on picture quality and brightness (the 1292 isn't that bright for a 9" CRT from what I gather)? Also, are these worthwhile upgrades on the 980 (NEC 9 Xtra?) Ultra, even for cheap?
 

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The 1292 is plenty bright (225 ANSI lumens), although you may be unable to drive the tubes to blooming without an RGB amplifier.


A big problem is that 1292 tubes are not rebuildable and new ones are at least $2215 US each.


Many also suffer from the dreaded streaking problem. After a somewhat dark to brighter transition, the projector will have an elevated black level until the end of the scan line. Various people are working on this, but have not yet reported back positive results.


One minor thing is that the 1292 doesn't do memories like the 12xx series (you get one memory per resolution / sync polarity combination, and the 12xx switcher trick doesn't work because it doesn't consider the input source - only it's electrical parameters). It's simpler to always push the same resolution (1440x960 works well for NTSC based sources) and have the scaler handle letter/window boxing, so this probably isn't an issue.


The Scheimpflug adjustment is also wierd - it can't be set without loosening screws, spinning rings, and then tightening the screws to bring things back into focus. The rings aren't separate for H and V, interact together, and the manual + pjcalc.exe are both wrong in some cases - so you spend a while getting the lens flapping right. This only has to be gotten right once for each installation, so it's not a big deal.


Once setup, it produces a wonderful, razor-sharp, film-like image with exceptional colors.


Some guys who've played more with different projectors might be able to chime in w.r.t. setup stability, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Quote:
The 1292 is plenty bright (225 ANSI lumens), although you may be unable to drive the tubes to blooming without an RGB amplifier.
??? Low input sensitivity??? this could be a problem since I plan to drive it via HTPC, some video cards produce less than 700mV :(

Quote:
It's simpler to always push the same resolution (1440x960 works well for NTSC based sources) and have the scaler handle letter/window boxing, so this probably isn't an issue.
This shouldn't be a problem, since it's driven by the HTPC. I guess there are 2 sides to every coin. :D


Thanks for reminding me of the streaking problem, my Runco doesn't seem to have this even at high contrast settings. I guess in darker scenes, against bright objects, the "theatre feeling" can be ruined.

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The rings aren't separate for H and V
mmm, didn't get this one. Are those the same as edge/center focus (I guess not, I fail to see a connection to lensflapping there)?
 

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I'd buy:


1209

1609

1292


in that order. I think you'll find the pricing to be in descending order as well.


The 1609 is a budget version of the 1209, they use the same tubes, but the 1209 scans higher and has a higher bandwidth.


Curt
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
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in that order. I think you'll find the pricing to be in descending order as well.
well, not really. I can get all of these at a low price with around 1500 hours on the tubes, though I still have to inspect them.


BTW, do the Barcos exhibit the streaking, and are they "perceptible" upgrades on the Runco (I guess so, I just want others' opinions)?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
^^^bump^^^
 

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I have never had a BArco with streaking problems.


If a BArco 1209 is available for the same price as a 1292 and both have 1500 hours on them, the Barco is a much better deal.


At 1500 'on' hours, you might see a hint of 4:3 wear on these sets, but probably not.


And what do you consider a 'low' price to be? No need to give away the seller if he happens to be a forum member...


Curt
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Curt,


At the risk of you laughing at me, calling me nuts and saying I should buy them all :D , I'd say between 1000-1500 USDs.


They were used in businesses that practically gave them away since they moved to digital. What's so great about these is that they didn't use them for "true" computer display (ie, Powerpoint and the like) but for video fed by a computer. In my country no one cares about CRTs anymore, hence their low resale value.


Lastly, there's only 1609s and 1292s in the lot, no 1209s.


Thanks for your input Curt. I really apreciate it...
 

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Gosh for that price - offer em $2000 for the pair..one 1609 and a 1292..


Bring em both home - set each one up on the floor - decide which one you like best..sell the one you don't want and you'll easily get more than $2000 for it..


For a bit of work you get a 9" PJ for free..
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
No, not really. The businesses sold them to a friend. He'd let me have ONE at that price, the rest of the units he'll try to make more out of them, probably with my help. So I get that price plus a bit of work helping him :D . Which is still a good deal, BTW.


BTW, what would it cost to ship one of these to the US, insured??? (just a ballpark figure, of course).
 

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About $450.00 to $600.00 USD with a crate and air shipping...


Curt
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Once again, thanks.


Just one final question/thoguht:


Will these units allow me to achieve tighter focus than what I get with the Runco 980/9PG? this may seem nonsense, since these are 9" CRTs, but I really enjoy the tight focus I'm able to get from my current unit.
 

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Ricardo,


The 1292 is a great unit at a great value. Even without buying from your friend, you can occasionally pick up low hour units for $2k and less. At those prices it is hardly worth the trouble of replacing the tubes even if you could buy them from VDC. By the way, it has been rumored that VDC may be getting the needed tooling/parts from Sony to be able to rebuild these tubes, but it is so far just a rumor.


As others have mentioned, most of the difficulty surrounding a 1292 has to do with the fan noise, the set up and the weight of the unit. In my mind, one you figure out how to get it up on the ceiling (I left 1000 pound capacity hand cranks mounted in the attic) and set it up properly the first time - 2 of the 3 problems are solved. As for noise - IMHO virtually any unit with a fan makes too much noise to not be heard over a quiet scene in a movie. That said, I think most (if not all) need a hush box. So again, once you build or purchase a hush box - you are finished.


Then if your unit lasts only 5K hours ( say 4-5 years) you can simply pop a new (low hour used) one in. I can't imagine that there wont be some new technology that we Will all be crazy about in ten years so after your second unit you may be replacing it with the next big thing.


Good luck.


Ed
 
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