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Help me choose from these subs...

1185 Views 14 Replies 8 Participants Last post by kesando, Jul 5, 2012

Jsawyer09

Discussion Starter · Jun 13, 2012

...I've narrowed it down to these three (with a couple 'outsider' ones, possibly):

• HSU VTF-2 MK4

• Outlaw LFM-1 Plus

• Epik Legend

(Outsiders: A Def Tech SuperCube 4000 or SVS SB-12 NSD — I decided on these due to their sealed design and small footprint)

So now, a little background...

Main Equipment:

Paradigm S2 V2 Monitor Speakers (bass is solid down to 50Hz in-room)

Rega Elicit 3

Rega Saturn CD Player

Well-Tempered Amadeus w/Dynavector XX-2 MKII

Graham Slee Reflex M w/CineMag 3440a SUT

Just ordered: The DSpeaker Anitmode 8033c to use with whichever Sub I decide to go with.

Room Size/Dimensions:

My main area of listening is a 12x20x8 space. About 2/3 of the way across the back wall, it opens-up to the kitchen/dining area that is 11x20x8 for a 3,600+ cu. ft. total area we're dealing with.

Rationale for choices:

This will be for a 2-CHANNEL ONLY setup; no Home Theater. I have scoured the Internet and about every forum (including this one) to research opinions on these particular subs. Now, unfortunately, most, if not all of the discussions always center around mostly HT use, which doesn't help me much (sometimes it does, but rarely).

I am really looking for the most musical sub, ideally. I would like to pressurize the main area, but the highest SPLs are not the primary concern, since music is the only consideration here.

Most music centers around just about every type of classic/alternative rock, jazz (think Bill Evans) and mostly small ensemble classical works (some orchestral, though).

I realize that all of these options are different designs, woofer sizes, etc., but I have weighed these differences; I would just really like to hear opinions on which would be ideal for my application as described above (or if anyone has used any of these), given the room size(s), and the fact that it is for 2-channel only. Add to that, would it make much noticeable difference performance-wise, since I'll be utilizing the Antimode regardless of what I purchase?

I am ready to pull the trigger on one...just don't know which. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

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1 - 15 of 15 Posts

cel4145

· #2 · Jun 13, 2012

The Legend has a reputation of being more musical than the other two. I suggest going with that (and I'm an Outlaw LFM-1 EX owner).

qguy

· #3 · Jun 13, 2012

Just in case this slipped through your radar...

Rythmik subs has some very good sealed designs targeted at the music crowd

cel4145

· #4 · Jun 13, 2012

Rythmik sealed subs are pretty pricey. Over $900 for the basic F12 model with shipping.

Jsawyer09

Discussion Starter · #5 · Jun 14, 2012

Agreed. I had the Rythmik VF12 on the list at one point, but admittedly took it off since it is no longer available, and near impossible to find used. The F12 is simply out of my budget. However, I can wait on the redesign of the VF12 if there is a consensus as to its superiority over the others musically.

Oh, and thanks in advance you guys for at least responding. I guess so far there isn't much by way of opinion on this subject. I know there are quite a few members with first-hand experience with these subs. Can't anyone chime in?

shadyJ

· #6 · Jun 14, 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsawyer09 /t/1415520/help-me-choose-from-these-subs#post_22130553

Agreed. I had the Rythmik VF12 on the list at one point, but admittedly took it off since it is no longer available, and near impossible to find used. The F12 is simply out of my budget. However, I can wait on the redesign of the VF12 if there is a consensus as to its superiority over the others musically.

Oh, and thanks in advance you guys for at least responding. I guess so far there isn't much by way of opinion on this subject. I know there are quite a few members with first-hand experience with these subs. Can't anyone chime in?

I have compared the FV12 directly to the Hsu VTF3 mk3, Outlaw LFM-1 EX, and Elemental Designs A3-300 in this post . Hopefully, that can help. Seeing how music is your priority, one thing I would suggest is getting two subs, and co-locating them with your speakers. That way you won't have to wrestle with localization issues. Also, if your speaker can really play down to 50 hz, I would go for one of the ported subwoofers- They will play deeper than a sealed subwoofer, and so will be a greater value as they offer more output over a greater range. I think in this instance I would go for the Hsu VTF2 since it has a Q control, so you can adjust the damping for more precise control over the sub's sound. That, plus the variable tuning, means you can spend that much more time tweaking your sub to perfection. If you're a real tweakoholic, get two of them.

wtxgringo

· #7 · Jun 14, 2012

i just purchased a vtf-2 mk4 this week & it's a great sub. coming from a bic f12, it's night & day! the hsu has great extension in bass notes & tones for music whether it's sirius radio, cds, lps & even movies. i'm pretty new to the home audio game so have nothing to compare the hsu to other than my ears, & i'm totally satisfied. to me, the mk4 makes thunder musical!

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Jsawyer09

Discussion Starter · #8 · Jun 14, 2012

This is really great guys! I do like the idea of the Q control. I honestly didn't know much about it until just a few months ago when I began researching the HSUs; it really seemed to stand out.

I really appreciate your input. It makes this decision much easier, as it helps me prioritize what to look for. Thanks!

sdolen

· #9 · Jun 14, 2012

Very please with my Legend paired with Martin Logan Clarity's. I'm considering ordering a second to smooth out response and get more room pressurization from HT.

nikerret

· #10 · Jun 15, 2012

I have an EX and a Plus and have heard a Hsu STF-2 in the same locations as the Plus; my house and a friend's.

The Plus isn't a bad sub, for music, but others are better. In fact, I prefer the Energy S10.3 to the Plus for most music. It's not as accurate, but seems to fill the midrange much better. I would also say the STF-2 does better with the midrange. The Plus does the low notes very well and very accurately; best I could find for $500, shipped. For music, this is less of a concern.

If I were going to buy one, for your use, I would go with the Epik Legend (around $570 shipped or pickup at store), or the Emotiva X-Ref 10 ($499 shipped). Everything I've read really makes these two to be the best musically inclined subs in this price range.

Epik Legend

20-200Hz +/-3.5dB

300 watts RMS

Dual 12" opposed woofers

Sealed

Cool stackable design for mulitples in one place

80 pounds

Emotiva X-Ref 10

25-200 HZ

300 watts RMS

10" woofer

Sealed

32.5 pounds

You'll have to look up their EQ'ableness and options.

Where are you located?

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Reactions: 1

cel4145

· #11 · Jun 15, 2012

Better yet, instead of the X-Ref 10, get two of the Ultra 10s . Emotiva stopped production on the Ultra series when the X-Refs were released, but it's a good sub. Here's a review of the larger Ultra 12 that will give you some idea of what it's like.

nikerret

· #12 · Jun 15, 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 /t/1415520/help-me-choose-from-these-subs#post_22135183

Better yet, instead of the X-Ref 10, get two of the Ultra 10s . Emotiva stopped production on the Ultra series when the X-Refs were released, but it's a good sub. Here's a review of the larger Ultra 12 that will give you some idea of what it's like.

Wow, that can't be beat! And the OP an get two for a damn good price. OP, THIS is what I would do. I'm thinking about getting one, or two, just to stow away for later, or incorporate into my system HMMMMMMMM

Jsawyer09

Discussion Starter · #13 · Jun 15, 2012

Wow...you guys are awesome! I really appreciate your responses. I'm going to look into the Ultras. Seems like a hard-to-pass-up deal,

FWIW, I live in the Minneapolis/St.Paul area (closer to St. Paul).

I was definitively narrowing it down to the Legend and a used (or waiting for the new FV) Rythmik, but now I may have to throw this in the mix. Much appreciated.

Jsawyer09

Discussion Starter · #14 · Jul 5, 2012

***UPDATE***

So, I pulled the trigger on the SVS SB12-NSD in gloss black. I received it early this week and am really quite thrilled with the sound of my system.

After doing the usual sub crawl throughout the room, I placed it pretty much where I thought it would sound best: just behind and on the inside of the right speaker (Paradigm Signature S2 V2), about 4-to-5 inches off the front wall. I hooked-up the DSpeaker Anti-mode 8033C and ran the calibration. Final settings so far are Phase at 0, Crossover at about 75Hz (the Paradigms are solid to about 50Hz in my room) and Gain at around 10-to-10:30.

What surprised me is that comparing the calibrated sub versus without, there really wasn't an appreciable difference in my room. I was convinced that the listening spot, being along the short wall of a rectangle room with an opening, would've been problematic, but it turned out not to make much difference (so if anyone's in the hunt for an Anti-mode, it's for sale in the classifieds

).

Suffice it to say, this sub is a thing of beauty, small form factor is really very nice in my room, and the sound is just absolutely stunning; the new review is pretty spot-on. There's absolutely no boominess, and it plays extremely low when called for. It doesn't do the extreme high SPLs or flap your pantlegs, but it is very tight, tuneful and conveys musical information down low unlike any sub I've had before. The soundstage is just astounding, and the texture to music is an eye-opener for me.

Thanks all for your help.

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kesando

· #15 · Jul 5, 2012

I'm glad you are happy with the SB. They are great little subs.

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