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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm in the market for a new camcorder and I can't decide between the S20/21 or the TM700.


Both Canon and Panny get great reviews from pretty much all sites I've read.

It seems like you can't go wrong with either one.


What holds me back on the Panny is the fan noise I read so much about.

For every user with the fan noise problem, I read about another user that doesn't have that problem. It seems like a hit or miss with the Panny.


I've read over the specs on both cameras and with me being a novice, there are specs I understand but many more I don't understand.


I'm just your average user. Not looking to make any fancy movies.

I just want a good camcorder that will record a good video.


Thoughts?
 

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If you are recording in a very quiet environment, the fan noise that some people are experiencing may be an issue. I have had my TM700 since it was first introduced and I just can't hear it in any of my videos irregardless of the environment. One thing I have noticed reading the various posts on the TM700, it appears and this is just my opinion that many of the recent buyers who have purchased this camera and posted on this forum have said nothing about the fan noise, so perhaps Panasonic has corrected the issue in their newer builds.


The choice is yours, but you just can't beat the video quality of the TM700 in 1080 60P mode.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the prompt response.


I meant to ask that exact same thing...


The fan noise, were those earlier models and the problem has since been addressed?


The other concern I have is how compatible is it with a Mac.

From what I've read, the Panny is not the easiest to work with.
 

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I use a Windows based PC and not a Mac so unfortunately I can't help/assist you there.


I believe with the Mac it applies to the 1080 60P videos. If you read through this Forum there are some posts regarding this issue and some workarounds using 'Clip Wrap'. Also check the website http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/ and you can find some helpful hints there.
 

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It's funny how the same questions keep coming up over and over as time goes on with this camcorder



Fan noise -- I had the opportunity to literally try out 5 of the TM-700 camcorders and each had the fan noise. The only question though is, how bad was it and would it be objectionable. It is very quiet and can only be heard really in a quiet environment. I think this is why many do not even hear it, nor care. I had found that merely putting my thumb over the fan during shooting did away with it and I found that not to be an inconvenience. Also, setting the audio to stereo rather than surround helped quite a bit too.


As far as importing to the Mac. Yes the files have to be converted by using a program such as Clipwrap, or Toast. Once this is done, they are fully workable on the Mac. I would convert to prores and then import into Final Cut Pro. My only problem at this point was that I wanted my final output to be blu-ray disk and this being the case I had to also convert to something other than 1080 60P since the blu-ray spec does not recognize this format and it is impossible to author to a blu-ray disk without further conversions with other software. I eventually gave up on this camcorder (reluctantly because the 60p output really is stunning) and went to the Sony CX-550.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hi Jay.


LOL, I read your thread on fan noise. In fact I read quite a few times over, LOL.

I did search and didn't find any recent threads on the fan noise so I thought maybe that problem went away and was addressed by Panasonic.


As for the Mac and conversions, I've read on the 3rd applications and how you have to convert the files like 2-3 times before you can work with easily on your Mac. Seems like to much work.


I'll look more at the Canon now and go from there.


Thanks all.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi5 /forum/post/19513237


The fan noise, were those earlier models and the problem has since been addressed?


The other concern I have is how compatible is it with a Mac.

From what I've read, the Panny is not the easiest to work with.

I had a Panasonic TM700 for about two weeks and then returned it.


The fan noises is a problem. OTOH, I was very impressed with the TM700's wind noise reduction feature. The TM700 also provides good (complete) control over settings although the menu is not always easy to navigate.


I chose the CX550V because of the wider angle lens and because I couldn't see a major (or any) difference to my eye between the CX550V vs. TM700 in A/B tests. The *.mts files of the TM700 are problematic on playback and editing.
 

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I guess it goes without saying that the Pany's 1080/60p recording is the best. However, 60p has some compatability issues with editing software as discussed above. Also, I've heard that you have to go through some additional conversion unless you're playing back direct from the camcorder or on a computer. Thus, if you want to burn to a DVD or Blu-Ray, you're going to have to down-convert the image. Is that right? Also, isn't the 60p recording something like 28mbps? How many GB would a 10-minute video be?


Is there any difference in PQ between the Canon HF S21/20/200 and the Pany TM700 if both are recording at 24 or 17mbps 60i? It seems like this is probably what I'd be recording in most of the time due to the 60p issues above.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mirak /forum/post/19705668


Is there any difference in PQ between the Canon HF S21/20/200 and the Pany TM700 if both are recording at 24 or 17mbps 60i? It seems like this is probably what I'd be recording in most of the time due to the 60p issues above.

The video quality of the TM700 in 1080/60i mode is inferior to that of the Canon. The TM700 cannot record 1080/60i 24Mbps like the Canon...only 17Mbps.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tingham /forum/post/19705845


The video quality of the TM700 in 1080/60i mode is inferior to that of the Canon. The TM700 cannot record 1080/60i 24Mbps like the Canon...only 17Mbps.

Just to clarify; did you do a direct comparison? It's admittedly a fairly large difference in bitrate, but there are other factors that effect overall image quality, such as the quality of the sensor/s, the encoding engine, the lens, etc. So far, the reviews seem to indicate that the tm700 at least holds it's own against the the Canon when it comes to image quality in 30p or 60i mode (and definitely beats it at 60p/28Mbps.) You can't necessarily assume that 24Mbps will always beat 17Mbps any more than you could assume that a 3 CMOS sensor device will always beat a 1 CMOS sensor device.


Larry
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mirak /forum/post/0


I guess it goes without saying that the Pany's 1080/60p recording is the best. However, 60p has some compatability issues with editing software as discussed above. Also, I've heard that you have to go through some additional conversion unless you're playing back direct from the camcorder or on a computer. Thus, if you want to burn to a DVD or Blu-Ray, you're going to have to down-convert the image. Is that right? Also, isn't the 60p recording something like 28mbps? How many GB would a 10-minute video be?


Is there any difference in PQ between the Canon HF S21/20/200 and the Pany TM700 if both are recording at 24 or 17mbps 60i? It seems like this is probably what I'd be recording in most of the time due to the 60p issues above.

Why don't you buy them both, try them both side-by-side, and after a day or two, keep the one YOU like most and return the one you don't want?

That's exactly what I did a few months ago, with those same models. And it doesn't matter for you which one I kept. You will be the one working with the one you keep so it has to satisfy you, first and foremost! Specs are specs, hands-on experience is another thing.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tingham /forum/post/19705845


The video quality of the TM700 in 1080/60i mode is inferior to that of the Canon. The TM700 cannot record 1080/60i 24Mbps like the Canon...only 17Mbps.

---------------------------


Thats not a big issue :


1- since AVCHD specification are 17Mbps anyway ( the target Mbps to produce AVCHD/DVD)


2- I succeded to fool my NLE making a BR compliant file first ( interlaced 25Mbps) out of 50p and burn the file as an AVCHD normal file (with menue etc) and the dvd was recognized by my Samsung 2500 BR player ( not on my pana 35k br player) will be testing more


Conclusion pana is better since you'll always have those fantastic 1080p 50 (or60) files in stock for a better future.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by toni1 /forum/post/19716369


....Conclusion pana is better since you’ll always have those fantastic 1080p 50 (or60) files in stock for a better future.


YES. And that's the main reason why I kept the TM700; to record with the (currently) best quality possible within my under $1000 budget limit.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lalittle /forum/post/19713297


Just to clarify; did you do a direct comparison? It's admittedly a fairly large difference in bitrate, but there are other factors that effect overall image quality, such as the quality of the sensor/s, the encoding engine, the lens, etc. So far, the reviews seem to indicate that the tm700 at least holds it's own against the the Canon when it comes to image quality in 30p or 60i mode (and definitely beats it at 60p/28Mbps.) You can't necessarily assume that 24Mbps will always beat 17Mbps any more than you could assume that a 3 CMOS sensor device will always beat a 1 CMOS sensor device.


Larry

no personal testing, just reading camcorder reviews here .


I really should edit my post here, my apologies if my post came accross the wrong way to any members. I was trying to state that in 1080i mode the Panasonic is inferior to the Canon when the Canon is shooting at it's highest bitrate..which is 24Mbps. The Panny most certainly has the better vid quality when it films in it's highest mode, 1080/60p.


The original op asked if they are the equal when shooting in the same mode, either 24Mbps or 17Mbps. I don't know how they both would perform against each other at 17Mbps. But, I can't imagine shooting with the Panny at that bitrate if you lose the gorgeous video quality of it's 1080/60p.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alainhubert /forum/post/19713802


Why don't you buy them both, try them both side-by-side, and after a day or two, keep the one YOU like most and return the one you don't want?

That's exactly what I did a few months ago, with those same models. And it doesn't matter for you which one I kept. You will be the one working with the one you keep so it has to satisfy you, first and foremost! Specs are specs, hands-on experience is another thing.

+1..very good advice. Although I would take a week or two instead. I'm really into putting these things thru the ringer, so as to get the best all around unit for me...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by alainhubert /forum/post/0



Why don't you buy them both, try them both side-by-side, and after a day or two, keep the one YOU like most and return the one you don't want?

That's exactly what I did a few months ago, with those same models. And it doesn't matter for you which one I kept. You will be the one working with the one you keep so it has to satisfy you, first and foremost! Specs are specs, hands-on experience is another thing.

I would love to buy them both and compare, but that pesky 15% restocking fee is not worth it.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tingham /forum/post/0



Can you purchase from Amazon.com? They have a 30 day no questions asked return policy.

Yes I can and that's where I would purchase it from. I didn't realize the return policy would be like that for electronics. I figured I would have to buy from best buy, but I would never pay those prices.


I was going to go to the local best buy to see them in person. Now I may just place an order for both on amazon.
 
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