[Bperry]

I'm new to FP and need some advice on the pj / screen to buy. The installers(2) that I have spoken with recommend sticking with a Stewart screen because of quality issues with other screens they sell. I'll be sitting 14' from the screen and can control the ambient lighting. We will be installing dimmable sconce lighting in the room. Having said that I am not interested in watching media such as sports in total darknes with my buddies. Therefore, For my application I'll probably pick a Firehawk screen since some viewing will be with some ambient light. The dimensions of the room are 16'w x 19'l x 8'h. A 100"x56" sreen seems to be the best fit for the room?


I like a bright punchy picture similar to my 42" Samsung DLP. My budget for the PJ is $20K or less. However, if I can spend less that wouldn't hurt my feelings any!!!


Here's the list I'm trying to pare down and a few questions that I have. Unfortunately where I live I have not been able to view any PJs except the sony Ruby and the sharp XVZ 20000.


1.Marantz VP11S1: been told a great picture but probably too dim.


2.SIM2 C3X: Is it stupid to to spend that kind of money on a really nice 720p 3 chipper. At 14 ft from a 100" width screen will I notice a difference between 1080 and 720p? The light output of this PJ is very enticing and all the reviews for this PJ have been outstanding.


3.SIM2 HT3000? been told too dim.


4.Sony Ruby: seems overpriced compared to the Pearl. I've seen the Ruby set-up and it seemed Dim and soft especially compared to the Sharp XVZ 20000 it was set up next to. The salesman didn't know the lamp age.


5.Sony Pearl:Like the features and the price but will it have the horsepower I want?


6.Mitz HC5000: Again the brightness


7.Optoma HD81


8.Sharp XVZ 20000.


9.Runco RS1100, Runco 2000d Would like fist hand info on these compared to other single chip DLP's like the Sharp 20K


10.JVC RS1: not sure I'm willing to wait for months.


Currently I'm leaning toward the C3X. How does an HD-DVD or BD look on the C3X? Anyone want to speculate on when high quality 3 chip 1080p PJ will be in the sub $20K range?


Any other reccomendations?

 

[Makomachine]

Let me start off by telling you that I don't own a projection system yet and am setting up my first in the next month or two. I've been a long time lurker, and frequent poster here so I feel at least somewhat informed to share my "opinion" with you.


Your screen size should not be a problem for most of the PJ's you list if you go with a higher gain screen. Given that you say you want a "bright punchy picture similar to my 42" Samsung DLP" - I would suggest you go with a single chip DLP to give you the similar DLP "look". There is a difference in how LCOS and DLP look - and if that's what you like, that's what I'd recommend. (You also state you don't want to wait on the RS1 which might be the only DLP alternative you might want to review - so we'll scratch that for now)


I would say you should stay away from a Stewart screen and look at a Dalite High Power if you are table or shelf mounting the PJ or a Vutec Silverstar for ceiling mount applications. Both will give you a VERY bright "punchy" image in their ideal mounting locations. The High Power will shed ambient light better but has a narrower viewing cone. It's also considerably cheaper than the Silverstar - so if you can shelf mount the PJ, it's my 1st choice. If ceiling mounting is the only option, the Silverstar is a fine choice as well. You might check out the High Gain screen reviews in the screen forum to get more info on these - or call Tryg at AVS - the resident "screen guru". Nothing personal against Stewart, but for your setup and stated needs, I feel your best bet is one of these two screens.


Now that it's narrowed down to single chip DLP with a high gain screen - I'd say you need to look at all the DLP options and make a decision for yourself. They all should produce an outstanding image with the "punch" you are looking for - along with plenty of ftl to spare combined with the screens I've listed. I've heard great things about the Marantz, Sharp, and SIM - so that's where I'd start. The Optoma has a tougher setup requirment that might not work in your room - and I personally don't like their firmware upgrade path and dynamic iris implementation - but make that decision for yourself.


If you change your mind about DLP and like the LCOS/DILA look - then the Pearl is a great buy - and the RS1 appears to be a class leader if it can live up to the hype. (TBD)


Good luck in your decision - just remember it's the PJ + screen + room that make the right combination. Hope you find what you are looking for...


Also, you should be able to stay well under $20k in the setup. Contact the people here at AVS - Jason, Daniel, or Tryg and I'm sure they'll give you a deal you can't beat at a local shop. Great customer service to boot....

 

[funlvr1965]

you really owe it to yourself to look at the marantz and its fantastic optics, whether or not its worth the extra $$$ will be a personal choice I find it to be a solid machine so far

 

[danieledmunds]

At 14' from a 100" screen, I couldn't see any pixels or found pixel structure to be a problem with the C3X. It certainly will give you a bright, plasma-like picture on a neutral screen and will work well for the dimensions you are talking about. And HD DVD looks absolutely stunning on it, in fact anything less and it will show up artifacts. I have seen a HT3000 being used in a light controlled, 2.35:1 setup, 16' from the screen and it looked bright enough, the VP11S1 is of a similar quality but I think you would certainly need to position it closer than 18'. You certainly have the option of sitting less than 1.5x screen width with those. Of course these, along with the other projectors you have mentioned, really need a light controlled room to produce a great picture. The C3X is the only one I could recommend if there is going to be some ambient light. I will see what the RS1 has to offer tonight.

 

[Alex512]



Quote:
Originally Posted by danieledmunds /forum/post/0


I will see what the RS1 has to offer tonight.

Will you be writing up a review?

 

[davegrey99]

What is up with this place?

I have never seen more advice come from people who have NEVER even owned a projector. Do people just blindly read something in a forum and then think they know what they are talking about?

Or did everyone here just stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night?


I am not an expert, and am new to this forum, but at least I have owned several projectors.

Bperry, the best advice I can give you is 1) get many opinions, 2) make sure those opinions come from someone who actually has experience, 3) view as many options as you can yourself.


For what you describe, you want a bright projector. The sim 3x would work great and at your seating distance to a 100" WIDE screen, the difference between 720 and 1080 would be small for most people. Another option is the infocus 777, very similar to the sim and likely less $$$. MSRP on the 777 is now $9999, but can be had for less from auth. dealers.

The sharp 20000 would also likely work for you. I used to own the sharp 12000 and the advantage of the sharp is the adjustable iris. In high brite mode, my sharp put out over 800 lumens and still had good contrast. I assume the 20000 will be even better, I have seen it and it is awesome. Remember, with ambient light, you do not need a high contrast projector as all the extra contrast is lost anyway.


For your screen, do not listen to the advice about the silverstar. I have seen it, and WITH ambient light, it is one of the worst in my opinion. Firehawk sounds good for you. The high power has some advantages, but many disadvantages. I used to have one before I switched to a firehawk, and I am much happier with the firehawk, and my situation is very similar to yours. I watch both in total darkness and sometimes with all the lights on.


Good luck

 

[Makomachine]



Quote:
Originally Posted by davegrey99 /forum/post/0


What is up with this place?

I have never seen more advice come from people who have NEVER even owned a projector. Do people just blindly read something in a forum and then think they know what they are talking about?

Or did everyone here just stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night?


I am not an expert, and am new to this forum, but at least I have owned several projectors.

Bperry, the best advice I can give you is 1) get many opinions, 2) make sure those opinions come from someone who actually has experience, 3) view as many options as you can yourself.


For what you describe, you want a bright projector. The sim 3x would work great and at your seating distance to a 100" WIDE screen, the difference between 720 and 1080 would be small for most people. Another option is the infocus 777, very similar to the sim and likely less $$$. MSRP on the 777 is now $9999, but can be had for less from auth. dealers.

The sharp 20000 would also likely work for you. I used to own the sharp 12000 and the advantage of the sharp is the adjustable iris. In high brite mode, my sharp put out over 800 lumens and still had good contrast. I assume the 20000 will be even better, I have seen it and it is awesome. Remember, with ambient light, you do not need a high contrast projector as all the extra contrast is lost anyway.


For your screen, do not listen to the advice about the silverstar. I have seen it, and WITH ambient light, it is one of the worst in my opinion. Firehawk sounds good for you. The high power has some advantages, but many disadvantages. I used to have one before I switched to a firehawk, and I am much happier with the firehawk, and my situation is very similar to yours. I watch both in total darkness and sometimes with all the lights on.


Good luck

I'm guessing this is directed at me - so I'll respond even though I probablly should just ignore it. I think I lead off with the fact I'm not an expert here - and the fact that he should contact someone at AVS for further guidance. What part of my advice do you find "off the mark" outside of the non-Stewart screen recommendation?


I probably should just write you off as a troll and not respond but I had some time to kill as I wait in line to checkout from my stay last night.

 

[davegrey99]

I'm guessing the troll remark is directed at me. Dont know why, Im actually trying to help someone who had a very similar setup to me. Well, if I'm the resident troll, then you are the resident idiot.


Your response above shows a complete lack of knowledge about front projectors. But that is not surprising, since YOU HAVE NEVER EVEN OWNED ONE!


You stated;

"I would say you should stay away from a Stewart screen" Why?? Its one of the best.

"Now that it's narrowed down to single chip DLP " Why?? 3 chip would be better.

"then the Pearl is a great buy " Not for lumens in ambient light its not.

"the Silverstar is a fine choice as well. " Well, its actually horrible in ambient light.


These comments show your ignorance, and why are you even trying to answer questions when its obvious your only knowledge is what you read on some forum? And most of it is wrong!


I strongly suggest you hire an AV expert to pick out and install your first system.

 

[TomHuffman]

With ambient light and a relatively large screen, the main considerations beyond simple quality is light output of the PJ and gain/ambient light rejection of the screen.


- The Sharp, which I own, is a fabulous PJ, but it probably wouldn't have enough light output (at least in the long run) in any mode other than high brightness for the FireHawk. In that mode, its CR is about 2k:1. Not awful to be sure, but way below the standards set by the current crop of PJs. The High Power or Stewart Ultramatte 150 would offer enough gain, but they don't have the ambient light rejection abilities of the FireHawk.


- The SIM C3X or the InFocus 777 with the FireHawk would probably be your best choice.


- Finally, I am reluctant to recommend ANY front projector in a room without good light control. You might want to consider a 58" Panasonic plasma, the 70" Sony SXRD rear projector, or the new 71" Samsung DLP rear projector (HL-S7178W).

 

[Catdaddy67]

bperry,


Having owned a Sharp 10k, 12k, Sony Ruby, and a 106 firehawk screen, I can tell you that while the Sharp 10k and 12k put out decent pictures in high brightness mode I found that they put out a much better picture in high contrast mode.


Personally, I found it more appealing to sacrifice the extra punch to get a very satisfying picture with awesome black levels. I preferred the Sony Ruby to the Sharp 12k even if it didnt do quite as well in black level as the Sharp because it put out such an awesome picture and its black level was more than adequate.


Given that the Sharp 20k is also 1080p, I might have preferred that over the Ruby.


While I havent seen a Sharp 20k in action, if I was you I would wait for the JVC RS1 which is less expensive than the Sharp 20k and appears to have better blacks than the Sharp 20k in high contrast mode WHILE having a lot of the Sharp's brightness in high brightness mode, AT THE SAME TIME.

 

[Makomachine]



Quote:
I'm guessing the troll remark is directed at me.

No need to guess - you were quoted.

Quote:
Dont know why, Im actually trying to help someone who had a very similar setup to me.

You are a troll for comments like this...

Quote:
What is up with this place?

I have never seen more advice come from people who have NEVER even owned a projector. Do people just blindly read something in a forum and then think they know what they are talking about?

Or did everyone here just stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night?

Quote:
Well, if I'm the resident troll, then you are the resident idiot.


Your response above shows a complete lack of knowledge about front projectors. But that is not surprising, since YOU HAVE NEVER EVEN OWNED ONE!

My brother owns a road bike - doesn't make him Lance Armstrong. I own a Toyota truck - doesn't make me a mechanic. Owning something and being an expert in it are two different things. With that said, I did qualify this again at the beginning of my post. Maybe you have a short term memory problem?

Quote:
You stated;

"I would say you should stay away from a Stewart screen" Why?? Its one of the best.

The OP was interested in a bright DLP looking picture and was concerned about brightness. Brightness can be achieved through more than just the PJ - it's the combination of the screen and PJ that give the IMAGE brightness. You can go about this several ways - I prefer to have a more broad choice in PJ's, so I lean towards a screen that makes up for today's PJ's being inherently dim. Thus my recommendation towards a high gain screen. I'm not disputing the Stewart screen quality - but I do think there are better deals out there that provide greater price per performance value than the Firehawk. (Again, haven't owned it but I've been "pimped" it more than once locally and have seen it in a multiple settings, thanks.)

Quote:
"Now that it's narrowed down to single chip DLP " Why?? 3 chip would be better.

I was trying to illustrate my thought process on how I arrived at my very loose recommendation. 3 Chip DLP is a fine alternative - however with the implementation of HD-DVD and BD, I would try and get the most of my image. 720P is dated and doesn't illustrate the source material in its native resolution. The recommendation was based purely on the OP's sentiments and concerns around these two particular source materials. Thus the 1080P recommendation. If there were 3 chip 1080P DLP units in his price range, and in his list of considerations, I would have obviously included them in what he should review.

Quote:
"then the Pearl is a great buy " Not for lumens in ambient light its not.

Try to stick to the context - it had to do with the preference of a DLP vs LCOS look. I know your an expert, being an owner of a PJ before, so I'm sure you realize these two technologies look different. The recommendation is PERFECTLY sound given a preference for LCOS with a high gain screen.

Quote:
"the Silverstar is a fine choice as well. " Well, its actually horrible in ambient light.

These comments show your ignorance, and why are you even trying to answer questions when its obvious your only knowledge is what you read on some forum? And most of it is wrong!

And again with the troll negativity. Why frequent a place that obviously holds no value to enthusiasts? By the way, you know nothing about me and the research I've done OUTSIDE this forum - including many an hour viewing PJ's and visiting with local installers, reading other articles, etc. Your jump to conclusions and attitude is what makes you a troll - not the 'expert' advice you give.

Quote:
I strongly suggest you hire an AV expert to pick out and install your first system.

You'll have to forgive me if I take a stab at it on my own. I'm pretty sure I'll figure it out - after all, I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

 

[keyser]

Dont both the C3X and the 777 have really short bulb life? Also to be considered is that neither of them have as good processing as many of the other projectors with Gennum, or Silicon Optix.

 

[Bperry]

Spoke to Jason and he thought the Firehawk screen and the C3x may be a good combination given my brightness expectations. If I go this route, I'll probably buy an external scaler to scale everthing to 720p.


Any speculation on when 1080p 3 chip PJs will be available in a reasonable price range.


What is the bulb life on the C3X? He thought the C3X would better suit me than the IN777.


Thanks for the responses!


Bryan

 

[danieledmunds]

Bulb life is supposed to be 1500 hours. I won't be doing a review of the RS1 as fairly soon you will (quite rightly) see plenty of them saying how wonderful it is. If I was even thinking of spending more than £2000 on a projector, the only ones I would consider now are the RS1 and the C3X. I found the RS1 matched the best single-chip DLPs out there in all areas (outperformed in brightness) except sharpness (very minor) and image depth. Certainly not enough to demand the extra £8200 in the case of the HT3000. It looked very close to the D80 in quality but with slightly less clarity and depth but half the price and no rainbows. Its a no-brainer. The next LCOS projector is going to kill off single-chip DLP for good.

 

[FremontRich]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Bperry /forum/post/0


I'm new to FP and need some advice on the pj / screen to buy. The installers(2) that I have spoken with recommend sticking with a Stewart screen because of quality issues with other screens they sell. I'll be sitting 14' from the screen and can control the ambient lighting. We will be installing dimmable sconce lighting in the room. Having said that I am not interested in watching media such as sports in total darknes with my buddies. Therefore, For my application I'll probably pick a Firehawk screen since some viewing will be with some ambient light. The dimensions of the room are 16'w x 19'l x 8'h. A 100"x56" sreen seems to be the best fit for the room?


I like a bright punchy picture similar to my 42" Samsung DLP. My budget for the PJ is $20K or less. However, if I can spend less that wouldn't hurt my feelings any!!!


Here's the list I'm trying to pare down and a few questions that I have. Unfortunately where I live I have not been able to view any PJs except the sony Ruby and the sharp XVZ 20000.


1.Marantz VP11S1: been told a great picture but probably too dim.


2.SIM2 C3X: Is it stupid to to spend that kind of money on a really nice 720p 3 chipper. At 14 ft from a 100" width screen will I notice a difference between 1080 and 720p? The light output of this PJ is very enticing and all the reviews for this PJ have been outstanding.


3.SIM2 HT3000? been told too dim.


4.Sony Ruby: seems overpriced compared to the Pearl. I've seen the Ruby set-up and it seemed Dim and soft especially compared to the Sharp XVZ 20000 it was set up next to. The salesman didn't know the lamp age.


5.Sony Pearl:Like the features and the price but will it have the horsepower I want?


6.Mitz HC5000: Again the brightness


7.Optoma HD81


8.Sharp XVZ 20000.


9.Runco RS1100, Runco 2000d Would like fist hand info on these compared to other single chip DLP's like the Sharp 20K


10.JVC RS1: not sure I'm willing to wait for months.


Currently I'm leaning toward the C3X. How does an HD-DVD or BD look on the C3X? Anyone want to speculate on when high quality 3 chip 1080p PJ will be in the sub $20K range?


Any other reccomendations?

The Sharp with a high power should look fabulous!

 

[Michael9009]

Wow! I do own a projector, however I am new on the AVS Forum. And I am quite surprised that, if one tries to offer advice to others here, one might end up insulted, being called a "resident idiot" by davegrey99 and the likes. Good to know: never try to help anybody or you might end up being insulted by someone who is actually new to this forum (like the above-mentioned).


Where are the moderators? Is such sub-urban language and attitude permitted on these forums?

 

[Daniel Hutnicki]

first of all, while I would agree that Stewart screens are excellant, I would disagre that there are issues with the other manufacturers. Dalite, Draper and Vutec make great screens and each have their own niche in this business.


.Marantz VP11S1: Marantz has always made some of the finest projectors out there. They have always had some of the best black levels and shawdow detail out there. The ability to do this usually means that you arent going to have the brightess machine out there. This projector is rated at 700 lumens and if this is an accurate number, this machine combined with a higer gain screen should be bright enough for you



2.SIM2 C3X: Great machine and will definitely be bright enough for you. Depending how far you sit back from the screen, the resolution may not make a difference


4.Sony Ruby: At this point, if you were interested int he Sony, I would go with the Ruby

While the Ruby is the higher end unit, Sony made upgrades on the Pearl to fix items they werent happy with inthe ruby


5.Sony Pearl: Nice projector and again with a good screen should be able to have the lumens you need for a good picture. Some people think its soft, but I think this is mainly becuase they are comparing it to DLPs which are people consider overly sharp


6.Mitz HC5000:


7.Optoma HD81: This projector should handle everything you need. Its bright and sharp.Saw it at Cedia playing on a huge screen and it looked mighty fine


8.Sharp XVZ 20000.- Same thing as the Optoma, but you would probably have to play it inthe high brigtness low contrast mode to get the brightness out of it.



10.JVC RS1: Dont think you will have to wait months for this, but of course you will be at the end of the buy list. It will also be rated at 700 lumens, but i have seen this projector with a 100 wide screen and it had no issues with brightenss


Currently I'm leaning toward the C3X. HD-DVD or BD should look great on the C3X? As tito when a high quality 3 chip 1080p PJ will be in the sub $20K range, probably not for another two years