Help, need to make a decision: Denon 3805 vs. Outlaw Model 755 & Pio VSX 1014

Yo DMF,


How you been bud?


What is your take on this silliness?


Should I just take the 3805 and run?


Do you think the longevity of a Dedicated, Powerful amp outweighs the extra features one would get with a high-end receiver?


I want to buy a Pre/Pro, but won’t that be outdated just as quickly as the receiver?


After reading the Archived post I found on this subject, it looks like there are a great many folks who believe using a receiver as a Pre/Pro with an outboard Amp is, well, foolish.


I think I am leaning towards the Amplifier route because when I decide to renovate my garage and create a new dedicated Theater room, I will already have the Amplifier needed. All I will have to get is the Pre/Pro and I will have the “seperates†that I need to anchor my system.


Still, there is no saying that I will not find an Amplifier that I like better between now and them ;-D

Funny thing is, i just read a review on their R-965 and after looking at the specification, aren’t they the same thing.


The R-965 is a carbon copy of the P-965 minus the amplifier section.


Simple question; why pay $1500 for a Pre/Pro when you can pay $2000 for the same exact box + amplification?


So what does the $3000 Pre/Pro “separates†package get you that the $2000 receiver does not get you, and vise versa.


I really have dissected the specifications of the two and cannot find a major difference, except maybe an extra Transformer.


I am leaning towards the 3805 due to apparent quality of the application in the unit, and for $1000 more I can always add a 3-channel amp (used) for the front stage and allow the receiver to run the back stage.


I wish this were a simple decision. I just don’t know which is more hype: the receiver or the Pre/Pro+Amp.

I have a 1014. This is my wish list of features that is not in the 1014, but likely in some pre/pro and high end receiver.


- Balance out

- 12V trigger out

- Bass eq

- Crossover frequency setting, on each channel

- Prologic IIx overlay on DTS

- On screen display for volume, etc, not just for setup

- I wish the front display can go dimmer. The dimmest setting is still too bright in a completely dark room

- Back light remote

- Remote keys have better tactile feel so I can tell which key is which by feeling

- Phono preamp


My wish list is mostly audio. My video need is minimal since I only watch DVD's.


Just a thought experiement. Hypothetically, I am willing to pay $100 for each of my wish list item. So a $1500 pre/pro/receiver, at $1000 over 1014 in MSRP, better cover all of things I listed before I am willing to upgrade .

Bubbawilly,


I agree that the weakest link in the Denon is the Amp section, but at what point will I realize the downfalls of the Denon’s amps?


I really want the power, but for now I will be driving rather efficient speakers (monitor 9’s), so the need for power is not immediate. I am just trying to better prepare myself for my future upgrade to the 100’s, which I know like a lot of power.



The real issue for me is the sound quality and the processing power of the 1014 vs. the 3805.



I do not want to have gobs of power with crappy sound processing. I have heard that the pio is great in Movies but lacks refinement in music. From what I have read, the denon does both in a more balanced way.


My system is probably going to be used 60% movies 40% music, so I want a good balance.


Bbqbbqq,


I believe the Denon does all of this except for the remote part. Do you think buying the Denon and converting it to a Pre/Pro later would be a better choice? I can definitely see adding a 3Ch amp, or 3 Mono’s later, for a powerful front stage.



Balance out

- 12V trigger out

- Bass eq

- Crossover frequency setting, on each channel

- Prologic IIx overlay on DTS

- On screen display for volume, etc, not just for setup

- I wish the front display can go dimmer. The dimmest setting is still too bright in a completely dark room

- Back light remote

- Remote keys have better tactile feel so I can tell which key is which by feeling

- Phono preamp

Johnla,


I am accepting of your feedback, and I appreciate your honest view of my intent. However I do not agree with your view. I am not trying to get justification or approval of my own decision. I am the one that must make the decision and live with it. I am not the type of person who is going to put my decision on the shoulders of other folks. I could bet that we are similar in that we both want to make the best choice with our money, for our sound/vision experience. I did not post this thread for negative feedback or to jerk your chain. I came to this open forum for feedback and opinions on the decision “I†must make. At no point have I told anyone to talk me into or out of equipment. I simply put up my choices and asked for feedback. I do the same with my wife and friends, as I am sure you do as well. I tell them my choices and ask for their opinion. This principle is what allows us to see different perspectives. Hey, thanks for your input, and if you can think of any reason why I should not buy the Denon, let me know j/k ;--)



Bubbawilly,


Really, I am not sold on anything.


Look, I’m flip-flopping. I am sure that every person who has picked up this hobby has done the same. We make a decision, then we read information on something that is possibly better and we flip-flop.


The good news is, I have stopped flip-flopping. I am going to do an in home demo with the Denon and my new speakers. I have 60 days to decide if the Denon is right for me. If I catch wind of Denon, or any other brand, launching a new receiver, I will simply return it and hold the fort.


I also placed a Pre-Order for the new Emotiva LMC-1 and Emotiva LPA-1 and plan on doing an in home comparison. I really like the look of the Emotiva package. Let’s juts hope it sound as good as it looks.



Thanks to everyone who gave me feedback. Your opinions have been very helpful.

"By going with the Denon now, I will be fronting the cost of the Denon ($1000), a new receiver with the new decoders ($1200 est), and an amp ($1500-don’t know if I can score the same deal later) in the span of 24 months. That is $3700 bucks.


If I go with the 755 & Pio VSX 1014 mix now, I will be paying $1200 now and $1200 later on a new receiver. That is $2400 compared to $3700. I will save $1300 bucks. "


Hi Dream,


Sounds to me as though you answered your own question right at the top of the thread with this reasoning. And I definately agree with that reasoning. Although I've never heard either the 3805 or the Outlaw/Pioneer combo, I have used a similar combination for some years: an older Yamaha 795a receiver (circa 1999; DD, DTS) with a Parasound 1205a amp (140x5wpc). Was tremendously satisfying. But after some time, I naturally came to desire the features of the newer receivers/pre-pros available, and since the price of a dedicated pre-pro is far beyond the wallet of a mere peon such as I, I demoted the 795a to another room of the house, and replaced it with a new Yamaha 1500 (serving as pre-pro only) in the main HT room, retaining the Parasound amp as the balls of the outfit (coupled with an additional two-channel Parasound amp for 7.1). In a couple years, once the fire-wire, HDMI, DVI, I-Link, Blu-Ray, HD-DVD nonsense is sorted out, I'll swap out the receiver again for a more more current model, and retain the amp(s), assuming fitness. My point is that features of the processing department are constantly improved, but power never goes out of style.

If you're only planning on using your current speakers for another year, with a greater pair on the horizon, my suggestion is that you bite the bullet for the twelve months, and eventually swap out the Outlaw pre-pro for something more current (even if it winds up being a an un-amped receiver) in the future.

Quick summary of this long-winded post: if it was my money, I would not consider the Denon for a second (and I've no axe to grind with them). Repeated caveat: I've heard neither of these set-ups in action.

Best of luck, and cheers.


DS.

Dave,


Thanks for the insight man.


I am in a real hard place with this decision.


Ummmmmmmmmm**thinking real hard**


I am deeply considering my original logic because it makes extreme sense to me and everyone that has dropped a line.


Thanks guys!