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Help picking a sub

2280 Views 27 Replies 15 Participants Last post by joxr, Jun 18, 2021

stinkyonion

Discussion Starter · Jun 14, 2021

I currently have a home theater about 20' x 15' x 7' ceilings. It has dual PB3000 which just impress the hell out of me, and I only use about a fourth of the available power (8 out of 10 lights lit on the back). I listen to 99% movies, Yamaha receiver volume usually at -15, base augmented +3db, Buttkickers on each seat, cement slab. Am happy as a clam. Love love love my pb3000s compared to my previous 15 year old sub that just gave me a headache so I never used it.

However, I also have a vacation house in northern Wisconsin and have set up a home theater with everything but the subs. This house has a larger walkout 30' x 20' basement room with drop ceiling at 7' on a carpeted cement slab. Expect 95% movies. Nearest neighbor far away. Dont want to have to upgrade for a long time if ever. Budget is 4 to 8 thousand dollars or whatever is reasonable. Cant be more than 30" tall so room for screen. Black or walnut. No hurry. Front wall only has one 15amp circuit for receiver/subs/player and a few LED lights. Projector powered from another area. I could run more power if I really had to through the drop ceiling.

Leaning towards dual PSA TV2112 or PSA TV2112 ipal. Maybe one of each? But I actually have no idea what I'm talking about, so just want to double check. Im in Chicago, but dont really have any known access to listen to anything worthwhile, and heck, not much time so I will probably just buy the consensus. Never heard any subs better than my pb3000s, dont even know what to expect. Probably dont need any more subjective loudness than I listen to now, not sure what <20hz exactly feels like (I read some people dont like below 20Hz). Just dont want to feel like its not enuf after I have it, so make sure it isnt maxed out or close to blowing.

Thanx for your help in advance!

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ctsv510

· #2 · Jun 14, 2021

I have a slightly larger room and ended up with 3 TV2112s. The third really helped even out my response, but two was adequate for any reasonable person. I’d definitely lean towards starting with two of them instead of throwing an ipal in, and add a third if you need a smoother response.

Edit: I should mention I had two PB16s before the TV21s and the PSAs walk all over the SVSs. In every way.

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badtlc

· #3 · Jun 14, 2021

I wouldn't mix the 12 series with the ipal. Just pick one. Dual TV2112 would be a ridiculous amount. I'm not sure how many PB-3000s it takes to equal dual TV2112 but I would guess it is several.

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dpc716

· #4 · Jun 14, 2021

Agree that a TV2112 pair would be terrific; you could add a third later if you wanted to.

FYI for ultimate output, one or two of these-
JTR Captivator 4000ULF-ST — JTR Speakers

bear123

· #5 · Jun 14, 2021

Dual PSA TV2112
Dual JTR Cap4000
Dual Rythmik FV25HP

Those are the three I'd choose from.

Actually, PSA TV3612 also, as you can lay them on their side if height constrained(same for FV25HP).

derekmoore

· #6 · Jun 14, 2021

With that kind of budget, you should definitely include Funk Audio to your list of considerations. If looks are at all important, they will likely move to the top of your list fast. Although flat black is an option if that's not so important to you. Nathan does everything custom so he'd be worth contacting in addition to PSA and JTR to see what he can work out for you. Classic Series (funkaudio.ca)

stinkyonion

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jun 15, 2021

Looks like dual tv2112. All the others are over 30" except the funk 21 which is out of budget and sold out anyway. Beautiful, but this room is dark dark, no one would notice the Funks. Glad no one recommended the ipal which saved me 3k.

HarbottleAudio

· #8 · Jun 15, 2021 (Edited)

.

rhelliott2

· #9 · Jun 15, 2021

Dual TV21 FTW

jamiebosco

· #10 · Jun 15, 2021

I would get 2 x of the JTR 2400ULF, laid on their side they are only 20.5" high

www.jtrspeakers.com

JTR Captivator 2400ULF — JTR Speakers

www.jtrspeakers.com

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stinkyonion

Discussion Starter · #11 · Jun 15, 2021

I still like the visual impact of 21” driver, and Rush 2112 is one of my favorite albums, so im sticking with the TV2112 (scientific i know). Just confused by rafman of the rafcave youtube video where he says the 2112 just couldnt keep up with demand and he prefers his klipsch spl150 subwoofers. Wtf. He returned the tv2112 for another klipsch. (The rafcave PSA TV2112 21” Subwoofer :RETURNED))

ctsv510

· #12 · Jun 15, 2021

stinkyonion said:
I still like the visual impact of 21” driver, and Rush 2112 is one of my favorite albums, so im sticking with the TV2112 (scientific i know). Just confused by rafman of the rafcave youtube video where he says the 2112 just couldnt keep up with demand and he prefers his klipsch spl150 subwoofers. Wtf. He returned the tv2112 for another klipsch. (The rafcave PSA TV2112 21” Subwoofer :RETURNED))

He doesn’t know a thing about subs and I actually now own that subwoofer he returned. It’s a monster just like the other two I have. Not a thing wrong with it and puts out violent bass with no issues.

You won’t find an unhappy TV2112 owner that actually knows how to setup subs in a room.

badtlc

· #13 · Jun 15, 2021

stinkyonion said:
I still like the visual impact of 21” driver, and Rush 2112 is one of my favorite albums, so im sticking with the TV2112 (scientific i know). Just confused by rafman of the rafcave youtube video where he says the 2112 just couldnt keep up with demand and he prefers his klipsch spl150 subwoofers. Wtf. He returned the tv2112 for another klipsch. (The rafcave PSA TV2112 21” Subwoofer :RETURNED))

He also returned that TV2112 packed full of packing peanuts. Dude was intentionally being a dick all the way around.

Reactions: 1

badtlc

· #14 · Jun 15, 2021

ctsv510 said:
You won’t find an unhappy TV2112 owner that actually knows how to setup subs in a room.

Sadly that isn't true. We know a few now who weren't happy because the TV2112 was too much, haha!

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d-rail34

· #15 · Jun 15, 2021

The regular JTR Cap2400's are exactly 30 inches tall, so I would highly recommend these as well.

As an aside, JTR recently introduced new lower distortion drivers that made a pretty significant difference to what was already top of the line, low tuned HT subwoofers. Aside from the Funk's mentioned, you're gonna be hard pressed to find a better sub. They truly do make endgame products.

Just my two cents,

Darrell

Reactions: 1

RBhifi

· #16 · Jun 15, 2021

badtlc said:
Sadly that isn't true. We know a few now who weren't happy because the TV2112 was too much, haha!

Sounds like the same type of people who would never have a fast car. I've always thought to much/overkill was always a good thing with subwoofers, and fast cars. To each their own. One man's logic is another illogic. 🍻..😉

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stinkyonion

Discussion Starter · #17 · Jun 16, 2021

The more I look at this JTR Captivator 2400 the more I like it compared to the PSA tv2112. Smaller cabinet, probably slightly deeper sound, but the same cheap looking finish. Only real downside is another $500 down the drain each. Both companies charge hundreds each for shipping, didnt expect that. Not sure how they get deeper bass with smaller driver and smaller cabinet but wuteva. I know increased amplifier power in theory, but both brands are realistically limited to a 1500watt household circuit max anyway.

d-rail34

· #18 · Jun 16, 2021

stinkyonion said:
The more I look at this JTR Captivator 2400 the more I like it compared to the PSA tv2112. Smaller cabinet, probably slightly deeper sound, but the same cheap looking finish. Only real downside is another $500 down the drain each. Both companies charge hundreds each for shipping, didnt expect that. Not sure how they get deeper bass with smaller driver and smaller cabinet but wuteva. I know increased amplifier power in theory, but both brands are realistically limited to a 1500watt household circuit max anyway.

It really depends on cabinet volume and design, driver design, port size/length, etc.. The drivers used in JTR's are super high excursion drivers with huge motors that are designed to help get you those really low frequencies. That's what makes the newer low distortion drivers even better, because it has increased output across the board. Especially from about 40Hz on up, where there is about a 3dB increase (=roughly 50% more output) throughout that range. You can see this by comparing Ricci's testing of the Cap2400 with the older drivers on data-bass to Audioholics testing of it with the newer drivers. With the PSA, they're using the B&C pro style drivers that are phenomenal for midbass, and even with a much lower X-Max, they're able to somehow get them to play low. Not quite as low as JTR, but a 14Hz tune is still pretty damn good. I guess it all depends on what you're after.

As for power draw, unless you're playing EDM at max for a long duration, this is a non-factor. For movies viewing, you're just going to have bursts here and there, so it's not anything to worry about, because most folks on here are running (myself included) are running the majority of their gear on the same standard outlets without issue.

OH! Throughout my research on here, the one common description of JTR is, "Violent". That's what draws me towards wanting a pair of them. In a bad way! Lol...It's just not in the cards right now. But someday...they will be mine.

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badtlc

· #19 · Jun 16, 2021

The TV2112 has been flat to <10Hz in every measurement users have posted so far. I think extension will be similar between the two. The TV2112 is still a 21" driver with 36% more surface area "and" a crazy high sensitive driver. I think the TV2112 will have a slight output edge just about everywhere but is it enough to be noticeable? Probably not. And even with that there is also the TV21ipal which has a 3,800W amp and an even better driver. It is likely flat down near 5Hz.

Regardless, either one is likely to be overkill and highly enjoyable for just about anyone.

ctsv510

· #20 · Jun 16, 2021

stinkyonion said:
The more I look at this JTR Captivator 2400 the more I like it compared to the PSA tv2112. Smaller cabinet, probably slightly deeper sound, but the same cheap looking finish. Only real downside is another $500 down the drain each. Both companies charge hundreds each for shipping, didnt expect that. Not sure how they get deeper bass with smaller driver and smaller cabinet but wuteva. I know increased amplifier power in theory, but both brands are realistically limited to a 1500watt household circuit max anyway.

I very well would probably have two cap 2400s right now if it wasn’t a 5 month delivery time when I was buying. I really wanted them and I’m sure I would have loved them. But the allure of the 21” drivers, the very low price at the time ($850 less per sub), and the near immediate delivery were the factors that swayed me. Now you’d have to pry them out of my cold dead hands before I part with them.

PSA shipping is included in the price. Not sure about JTR.

Wattage is misleading, and a standard 15A circuit can handle the short bursts of more than 1800 watts if called upon. I have three TV21s on their own 20A circuit. It sounds wrong to have 6000 rated watts of sub power on a 2400 watt circuit but real world demands just aren’t a problem, especially when each additional sub makes them all work less.

You’ll be happy either way. Go with your gut and pull the trigger. The sooner you order the sooner you’ll be in bass bliss.

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